THe black hole of Cygnus x1 - was this its source Rush Hemeshperes?

[Yodelgoat]

A physicist Tom Bolton of "university of Toronto"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fENFK7Et_P8

Is this where Peart got the inspiration for The black hole story? Watch about 22:00 seems an odd coincidence that Tom Boltons research corresponded so nicely with the release of hemispheres...

I dont know the what He was reading, but watching this kinda struck a chord.

[Halmyre]

The original, first part, of Cygnus X-1 was on A Farewell To Kings in 1977. I reckon Peart was already familiar with Cygnus X-1, being interested in science fiction.

[Trane]

Yeah, I thought at the time that the only link between X-1 on AFTK and X-2 (as I liked to call it ) on Hemispheres was that indeed, the black hole made the spaceship in rear-leap in time

But I never really understood (and stopped trying fairly soon) the storyline of X-2 ( )

didn't have time to see the documentary, though

[Yodelgoat]

My Bad on the Farewell to kings misstatement. Time to go through the entire catalog again for a refresher. since CD's came along, I dont read covers or pay much attention to whats on what. My most listened to CDs are all on a 300 disk cd changer. I hardly ever see the disks, except while changing them out.

[Halmyre]

Yeah, I thought at the time that the only link between X-1 on AFTK and X-2 (as I liked to call it ) on Hemispheres was that indeed, the black hole made the spaceship in rear-leap in time

But I never really understood (and stopped trying fairly soon) the storyline of X-2 ( )

didn't have time to see the documentary, though

Yes, all the Greek god bollocks totally lost me. I think Neil must have lost his muse or something.

[Yanks2014]

Yes, all the Greek god bollocks totally lost me. I think Neil must have lost his muse or something.

Just listen to the music. Lyrics are overrated. Seriously, if the music is good, why worry about what they are trying to say? And the music here certainly is very good.

[GuitarGeek]

Yes, all the Greek god bollocks totally lost me. I think Neil must have lost his muse or something.

It's a real simple concept. Neil was reading an article in Time magazine, about the brain and how experts say that one side of the brain governs love, compassion, etc while the other governs wisdom, logic, etc. I forget which is which, but that concept sparked the basic idea in Hemispheres itself. That changed his thinking about what the second part of the story was going to be about.

Neil being the nerd that he is came up with the idea of using the respective Greek gods to personify the concept.

The struggle between logic/wisdom and love/art sparks a battle, as the two things seem unable to be at odds with each other. Whether this is a literal war or just a figurative one, ya know, the battle between heart and mind, I'm not sure.

Anyhow, so our intrepid voyager from Cygnus X-1 Book I, enters the black hole and is transferred into the realm of the Gods where he is able to reconcile the forces, and hence becomes Cygnus, Bringer Of Balance.

[ronmac]

Just listen to the music. Lyrics are overrated. Seriously, if the music is good, why worry about what they are trying to say? And the music here certainly is very good.

Lyrics are overrated? That's nonsense!

An artist writes a song with music and lyrics. And you have the audacity to dismiss one half of their work as expendable, apparently.

[trurl]

It's a real simple concept. Neil was reading an article in Time magazine, about the brain and how experts say that one side of the brain governs love, compassion, etc while the other governs wisdom, logic, etc. I forget which is which, but that concept sparked the basic idea in Hemispheres itself. That changed his thinking about what the second part of the story was going to be about.

Neil being the nerd that he is came up with the idea of using the respective Greek gods to personify the concept.

The struggle between logic/wisdom and love/art sparks a battle, as the two things seem unable to be at odds with each other. Whether this is a literal war or just a figurative one, ya know, the battle between heart and mind, I'm not sure.

Anyhow, so our intrepid voyager from Cygnus X-1 Book I, enters the black hole and is transferred into the realm of the Gods where he is able to reconcile the forces, and hence becomes Cygnus, Bringer Of Balance.

Ayn Rand also personified the battle between emotion and reason with the Gods Dionysus and Apollo and that was in his Ayn period..

[notallwhowander]

I believe Nietzsche developed those ideas of Apollo and Dionysus as well.

Anyway, the plot of Book II never seemed all that opaque to me. But then, mythology and folklore have been consistent interests for me. The outline is simple: the world is divided in a war between Apollo and Dionysus, one the god of reason, the other the god of love: rational vs. irrational. Things get pretty bad until the narrator shows up and brings balance between reason and love, and in so doing becomes a god himself.

In the end, the whole thing is an allegory for the mind. One has to strike a balance between reason and passion, assuming mastery over oneself.

[Yodelgoat]

I believe Nietzsche developed those ideas of Apollo and Dionysus as well.

Anyway, the plot of Book II never seemed all that opaque to me. But then, mythology and folklore have been consistent interests for me. The outline is simple: the world is divided in a war between Apollo and Dionysus, one the god of reason, the other the god of love: rational vs. irrational. Things get pretty bad until the narrator shows up and brings balance between reason and love, and in so doing becomes a god himself.

In the end, the whole thing is an allegory for the mind. One has to strike a balance between reason and passion, assuming mastery over oneself.

Very well said.

For me personally, I like Science Fiction, but science is every bit as fantastic as the made up stuff.

[Yanks2014]

Lyrics are overrated? That's nonsense!

An artist writes a song with music and lyrics. And you have the audacity to dismiss one half of their work as expendable, apparently.

I hate to break it to you, but not everybody places importance on the lyrics. Many of us listen the vocals as just another instrument. I love the way certain words sound when sung, but the meaning just isn't important to me. It's not that I can't appreciate good lyrics, but it's really the last thing I look for. Most of the time I donm't even hear the words, they vocals just float over the muisc and I couldn't tell you what they were singing about unless I read a lyric sheet. And I only read the sheet if I want to be able to sing along to the song.

You seem to believe there is only one right way to listen to music, but that is not the case. What works for you doesn't for me, and there is nothing wrong about that. I will say this, and I often do, the greatest lyrics in the world will not save bad music. If I don't like the overall sound of a song, lyrics are definitely meaningless, they wont make a difference. Bad lyrics can be ignored a hell of a lot easier. Same with lyrics I don't agree with. I own tons of music that have nearly the opposite world or political viewpoints, and thankfully I can ignore that for the sake of the music. Otherwise I'd have a small collection.

[ronmac]

I hate to break it to you, but not everybody places importance on the lyrics. Many of us listen the vocals as just another instrument. I love the way certain words sound when sung, but the meaning just isn't important to me. It's not that I can't appreciate good lyrics, but it's really the last thing I look for. Most of the time I donm't even hear the words, they vocals just float over the muisc and I couldn't tell you what they were singing about unless I read a lyric sheet. And I only read the sheet if I want to be able to sing along to the song.

You seem to believe there is only one right way to listen to music, but that is not the case. What works for you doesn't for me, and there is nothing wrong about that. I will say this, and I often do, the greatest lyrics in the world will not save bad music. If I don't like the overall sound of a song, lyrics are definitely meaningless, they wont make a difference. Bad lyrics can be ignored a hell of a lot easier. Same with lyrics I don't agree with. I own tons of music that have nearly the opposite world or political viewpoints, and thankfully I can ignore that for the sake of the music. Otherwise I'd have a small collection.

I hate to break it to you, but I don't disagree with any of that, except the assertion that I think there's only one right way to listen to music, which is total nonsense. But, your reply to me doesn't reflect your previous statement:

Just listen to the music. Lyrics are overrated. Seriously, if the music is good, why worry about what they are trying to say? And the music here certainly is very good.

Do you not see the difference? Nowhere do you state this as your opinion. Indeed, it's quite matter-of-fact. And, it's also insulting to the lyricist, which was my point.

It's certainly your choice to be ignorant of half of the song. But, to dismiss lyrics as "overrated," and advise others to simply ignore them makes you look foolish.

[yesstiles]

Lyrics are overrated? That's nonsense!

An artist writes a song with music and lyrics. And you have the audacity to dismiss one half of their work as expendable, apparently.

I don't think that's really true for progressive rock though, but certainly for mainstream pop/rock it is. Progressive rock is all about the music and the interplay; lyrics are just there because they have to be for the singing.

[ronmac]

I don't think that's really true for progressive rock though, but certainly for mainstream pop/rock it is. Progressive rock is all about the music and the interplay; lyrics are just there because they have to be for the singing.

I don't buy that at all. In fact, I would argue that it's the other way around. Today's pop lyrics are beyond trite, for the most part.

[notallwhowander]

I don't think it pays to generalize. Clearly Gabriel had something to say in Genesis. Whether you like what he had to say or not, his lyrics and vocals, and the meaning behind the lyrics, were integral to what was going on musically. For other bands has been is different. In Yes' classic period the lyrics moved between storytelling and impressionistic poetry. While the denotative meaning of the words weren't as important, the connotations were definitely so. That Anderson was able to effectively conjure up the impression of wonder and mystery makes all the difference. When you get to Magma, I think you have people who fully embraced the voice as an abstract instrument. This makes total sense when you think of Francophones who grew up listening to American jazz records. Even then, some denotative meaning has crept into a purposely inscrutable black box of the Kobian language.

[Yanks2014]

I hate to break it to you, but I don't disagree with any of that, except the assertion that I think there's only one right way to listen to music, which is total nonsense. But, your reply to me doesn't reflect your previous statement:

Do you not see the difference? Nowhere do you state this as your opinion. Indeed, it's quite matter-of-fact. And, it's also insulting to the lyricist, which was my point.

It's certainly your choice to be ignorant of half of the song. But, to dismiss lyrics as "overrated," and advise others to simply ignore them makes you look foolish.

Why on earth would a lyricist be insulted by me? They are writing for people who appreciate there art, not for people like me. They should just be happy I like the song or album, and not worry WHY I like it. Sorry, but I really do believe lyrics are overrated. I didn't say they were unnecessary, but I do believe the music is far more important. Am I stating this as fact? No, it's all opinion, and I never even hinted that it's wrong to take enjoyment out of the words.

[Yanks2014]

I don't think it pays to generalize. Clearly Gabriel had something to say in Genesis. Whether you like what he had to say or not, his lyrics and vocals, and the meaning behind the lyrics, were integral to what was going on musically. For other bands has been is different. In Yes' classic period the lyrics moved between storytelling and impressionistic poetry. While the denotative meaning of the words weren't as important, the connotations were definitely so. That Anderson was able to effectively conjure up the impression of wonder and mystery makes all the difference. When you get to Magma, I think you have people who fully embraced the voice as an abstract instrument. This makes total sense when you think of Francophones who grew up listening to American jazz records. Even then, some denotative meaning has crept into a purposely inscrutable black box of the Kobian language.

I haven't a clue what Gabriel was trying to say, I find his lyrics bizarre at the very least. But the music was too in many ways, so it was a good fit. To this day I have no idea what the Lamb was all about. Don't care either, but I sure love that album. I just listen to it as a collection of individual songs, not a concept or story. Maybe I'm listening wrong, but I don't care, the album however I listen to it makes me quite happy, which is all that should matter.

[notallwhowander]

Enjoy it as you find it. It makes no difference to me.

Upon reflection, maybe Gabriel wasn't the best example. He did get esoteric quite a bit. Still, part of my enjoyment is parsing through all that stuff and getting meaning out of it. Perhaps a better, more accessible, example would be Ian Anderson and Jethro Tull. He was always careful to craft a particular point of view into his lyrics, something that would reverberate through the entire song. His characters and critiques of England's class system power many of the band's best rock songs in equal measure with Martin Barre's guitar.

[ronmac]

Why on earth would a lyricist be insulted by me? They are writing for people who appreciate there art, not for people like me. They should just be happy I like the song or album, and not worry WHY I like it.

Yes, they watch you very closely. You clearly don't get my broader point.

[Yves]

A physicist Tom Bolton of "university of Toronto"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fENFK7Et_P8

Is this where Peart got the inspiration for The black hole story? Watch about 22:00 seems an odd coincidence that Tom Boltons research corresponded so nicely with the release of hemispheres...

I dont know the what He was reading, but watching this kinda struck a chord.

Actually, Neil invented all of that and the universe aligned itself accordingly.

Yes, Rush is that powerful!

[Scott Bails]

I don't think that's really true for progressive rock though, but certainly for mainstream pop/rock it is. Progressive rock is all about the music and the interplay; lyrics are just there because they have to be for the singing.

I think this is a gross generalization.

[ronmac]

I think this is a gross generalization.

+1

Tell that to people like Kerry Livgren.

[Yanks2014]

I think this is a gross generalization.

Even I don't agree with his statement.

[Yanks2014]

Yes, they watch you very closely. You clearly don't get my broader point.

Enlighten me, what is your broader point?