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Thread: Da Vinci's Viola Organista

  1. #1

    Da Vinci's Viola Organista

    Only 500"years before the mellotron, Da Vinci invented a string variant of the harpsichord without hammers.

    Someone recently built it (reportedly for the first time)



    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/...118-2xpqs.html
    Last edited by Prog Lives; 11-30-2013 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    My view on all these supposed da Vinci "inventions" is very simple - if da Vinci didn't build a working example of his ideas then he didn't invent them. A drawing is a drawing not an invention.

    He didn't invent the helicopter, in exactly the same way that If I draw a plan of a flying football stadium, I haven't invented it even if someone in 500 years actually does construct a football stadium that can fly.

    It was proved quite a few years ago now that his plan for a bicycle had been tampered with when someone added on pedals and a chain.

    An invention by definition is a physical thing that does what the inventor claims it does. A drawing is therefore not an invention.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    My view on all these supposed da Vinci "inventions" is very simple - if da Vinci didn't build a working example of his ideas then he didn't invent them. A drawing is a drawing not an invention.

    He didn't invent the helicopter, in exactly the same way that If I draw a plan of a flying football stadium, I haven't invented it even if someone in 500 years actually does construct a football stadium that can fly.

    It was proved quite a few years ago now that his plan for a bicycle had been tampered with when someone added on pedals and a chain.

    An invention by definition is a physical thing that does what the inventor claims it does. A drawing is therefore not an invention.
    I don't really agree with that. If one makes a drawing of something, that can be build by someone else, the person making the drawing and thinking out the construction, still is the inventor. Without the drawing, there wouldn't be an invention.

    For a pretty large article about it, see here.
    http://tygodnik.onet.pl/zmysly/the-d...-english/qw5s9

  4. #4
    That is an amazing sound. It must use some form of bowing in place of plectrums.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    A drawing is a drawing not an invention.
    AFAIK, in the eyes of the American Patent Office, it actually is.

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    Yes, BUT, da Vinci didn't built even a fraction of the things he drew, so he had no way of knowing if they worked, so me not knowing if my flying football stadium will work or not based on my detailed engineering drawings is irrelevant, I've done the drawing so according to y'all I'm the inventor, even if I can't prove it works. That's what you're saying. And if someone in 500 years builds it based on their own drawings, I'll still be the inventor?
    Not on my watch!
    da Vinci drew machines similar to a helicopter, a u-boat and a bicycle, he is however not credited as the inventor of any of them. They were invented much later and from detailed drawings and trials.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    My view on all these supposed da Vinci "inventions" is very simple - if da Vinci didn't build a working example of his ideas then he didn't invent them. A drawing is a drawing not an invention.

    He didn't invent the helicopter, in exactly the same way that If I draw a plan of a flying football stadium, I haven't invented it even if someone in 500 years actually does construct a football stadium that can fly.

    It was proved quite a few years ago now that his plan for a bicycle had been tampered with when someone added on pedals and a chain.

    An invention by definition is a physical thing that does what the inventor claims it does. A drawing is therefore not an invention.
    Patent law recognizes drawings and sketches with descriptions as adequate evidence of invention. Patent applications are (typically) deliberately made less than clear to obscure some of the art of the invention. (I.e.Extra unneeded materials and steps are referenced and over generalized).

    Though this year they made the (mistake) of changing the law from first to claim to first to file, so people are keeping more things trade secret than they used to.
    Last edited by Prog Lives; 11-30-2013 at 05:36 PM.

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    Yes, I know, but the law is an ass. For me an invention is only an invention once its function has been proved.

  9. #9
    The electric version?



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  10. #10
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    An invention by definition is a physical thing that does what the inventor claims it does.
    An invention doesn't even have to be a physical object at all. It can be a method, which is a specific category in U.S. patent law.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    The electric version?
    Apparently a very similar idea... I never understood why Godley & Creme went with a bladed wheel instead of a smooth one. BTW only on PE would such a cool thing degenerate into an argument on patent in less than a page The 2nd post in fact- that must be a record.

  12. #12
    Hell, some people can't distinguish between an invention and an innovation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    An invention doesn't even have to be a physical object at all. It can be a method, which is a specific category in U.S. patent law.
    Well then it's a method not an invention. How to do something is not an invention it is an idea, a notion, a concept, an innovation.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Well then it's a method not an invention. How to do something is not an invention it is an idea, a notion, a concept, an innovation.
    Not true, in the legal sense. You can patent methods, but not ideas. There's a requirement of documentation for each patent application. I have ideas for products that I think would do well. I can't do anything about protecting those ideas without creating documentation and filing for a patent or copyright.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prog Lives View Post
    Someone recently built it (reportedly for the first time)
    Not the first time - there were apparently versions made hundreds of years ago. However, none of them survived, so the guy who built this one - Slawomir Zubrzycki, a Polish pianist and instrument-builder - had to engineer many details of the mechanism himself. Here's more on the subject:

    (If you click on the "CC" in the bar below the picture after it starts, you'll get English subtitles)



    It'd be interesting to hear something on it besides Baroque music. It shares with the Mellotron a problem of slightly flaky articulation, and Baroque music is all about crisp articulation - 16th and 8th notes marching precisely along. Also, there aren't very many full chords, and since this instrument only has one string per note, the effect is of something in between a reed organ, a glass harmonica, and an oddball string quartet, rather than a full orchestra. I wonder if it'd be possible to build one with three strings per note, like a piano?
    Last edited by Baribrotzer; 12-01-2013 at 06:28 PM.

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