Considering the name of the thread is : And This is why I love jazz: What Phish Sounds like to people who don't like Phish, I would assume he meant jazz.
Considering the name of the thread is : And This is why I love jazz: What Phish Sounds like to people who don't like Phish, I would assume he meant jazz.
I'd always assumed it was because an amazing vocalist wasn't going to hang around whilst the rest of the band jammed for 10mins!Originally Posted by JKL2000
So he's referring to all of Jazz? And all of Jazz struggles to find an audience? I thought maybe he was referring to a specific subgenre or era. My mother-in-law gave some kind of presentation on Bing Crosby's early career, and apparently made the case that Bing Crosby was a jazz singer in his earliest days. So Bing Crosby struggles to find an audience to this day? And Phish is somehow competition for Bing? I'll have to tell Jon Fishman!
Again, I can't speak for him, but it certainly isn't the first time I've seen such a seemingly exaggerated (to some) statement made here, there, or anywhere...
Sorry, but I generally agree with the OP.
Neither the Dead nor the more recent jam bands ever did a thing for me. That mystified me, since I love open-ended jazz improv like Sam Rivers or late-period Coltrane. However, I figured it out once I finally got the chance to see Phish in person at Bonnaroo one year. Phish's musicians are all capable, but their improvs had exactly ZERO emotional range. Total flatline. The Dead always struck me the same way--even the older recordings I've heard. Post-bop and avant-garde jazz in person can grab you and take you places. It's like a religious experience. Jam bands are more about giving the the twirly girls up front in the crowd an excuse to bliss out with their hula hoops. It just doesn't do anything for me emotionally.
That was the Bonnaroo audience, not the usual Phish crowd, I guarantee you. This is pretty funny:
http://jamtopia.com/blog/dudes-in-the-front-row/
Short version: of about 4,000 people on the floor leval at a Phish show at the Hampton Coliseum, the author found a grand total of 55 women. It's why the Phish crowd is called a "sausage fest". As one female commenter put it: This ratio was also made clear everytime I saw the dude’s bathroom line. So true, so true.
But please, keep those tired cliches comin', I love to debunk them.
...or you could love
ha Jazz and jam bands! Yes the phish fans love to tell you that phish can play everything including jazz. Problem is they never live up to the claim. Yes they have played tons of covers but I've always found their covers to be weak. I do like some Phish mostly the early years however its their vocals and uninteresting jams that lost me. This is from someone who loves a bad vocalist and is a fan of allmans/dead jams. However, I don't write them off they are good musicians and have recorded some good stuff. Just don't put them high on the jam band list. If I'm going to listen to jam bands its : Dead, Quicksilver, Govt Mule, Dave Matthews Band(yeah dave's vocals never bothered me), Blues Traveler, Ozric Tentacles and Widespread Panic.
Perhaps the "blissed out" look you're seeing is them allowing the music to "grab them and take them places", or having a religious experience which is NO LESS SPECIAL than the one you describe having from the music you prefer. Seems like you're just looking down at them because they're having that experience with music that doesn't move you.
Phish a sausage fest band? Well then, another thing that separates the Grateful Dead from the jam band scene.
Sure they do, there's plenty of tapes around from their days as a bar band before they released any records where they do jazz tunes, mostly Duke Ellington and Miles Davis. There's even a tape with a Coltrane cover (Mr. P.C.). Whether they did those tunes well is a matter of opinion, but it's really kind of amazing how electric they are.ha Jazz and jam bands! Yes the phish fans love to tell you that phish can play everything including jazz. Problem is they never live up to the claim.
Yep. It's like the classical/opera snobs who look down on every other kind of music, especially jazz, because, well, *obviously* the opera/symphony repetoire is The Greatest Music Ever Written. Note: I love opera and 20th century classical stuff, a lot of the fans of it, not so much.Seems like you're just looking down at them because they're having that experience with music that doesn't move youHahahaha. Did/do the Dead claim they're not a jam band the way Robert Fripp goes on and on and... about KC not being a prog band? Wow.Phish a sausage fest band? Well then, another thing that separates the Grateful Dead from the jam band scene
...or you could love
I don't actually ever remember hearing the phrase "jam band" until after Jerry passed away. The phrase that Relix magazine liked to use, at least back in the late 80's, was "Bay rock", meaning bands influenced by the San Francisco bands (ie Dead, Airplane, Quicksilver, etc), but I don't know if they ever applied that name to Phish or any of the other groups who are now usually referred to as "jam bands".
I don't think the Dead have ever really worried about such things. Their whole trip seems to have always been playing music, not what the press called it.
That's just the way I see it. The intensity isn't there in jam band music for me. If others like it, that's great.
Only 55 women? It was probably just hard to tell 'em from the men.
There were tons of women at the Lemon Wheel ('98?). I distinctly recall watching as the 70,000 concert-goers were let into the massive compound Sunday morning...an attractive young proudly topless girl wearing a backpack leading the way.
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Lol. Lots of women at the NY area shows I've caught. Especially at Jones Beach. Much more than most...ok, ALL prog shows I've been to..Yes comes close. Or at least use to.
"Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
"I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
"I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973
I left Moe out, because my library system doesn't have any albums in their collection
Yeah, Mule is another jam band that I was aware of
Thanks for vthe other suggestions
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I'd agree that the term "Jam band" was born only in the last two decades.... and even maybe after the millenium
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Yes...and no.
Yes,. last two decades; no, not after new millennium as bands like Medeski, Martin & Wood, Phish, Gov't Mule and others were being called jam bands in the '90s.
Gov't Mule kind of straddle that line, like the Allman Brothers. They get plenty of jam band fans crossing over, play jam festivals, and definitely jam, but at the end of the day they're still more of a hard blues rock band than anything else. Warren does sing better than anyone I've ever heard in the jam genre. The two things that have always blocked me from getting into jam bands is the lack of dynamics/tempo changes and the indifference to vocals.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
You have heard Phish's proggier stuff like The Divided Sky, You Enjoy Myself, The Curtain With, It's Ice, Maze and so on, right? Full of dynamic and tempo changes....The two things that have always blocked me from getting into jam bands is the lack of dynamics/tempo changes
Phish has a lot of very vocally oriented songs, the have plenty of a cappella ones, the problem is that Mike wasn't a very good singer until he started touring with his solo band in the last 5 years or so, he's much stronger now and Jon has never been a good vocalist, though he's OK on the a cappella stuff. Are Page and Trey at the same level as Greg Lake or whatnot? Nah, but they what they sing is perfect for the material.indifference to vocals.
...or you could love
You Enjoy Myself was the song that made me like Phish to be honest. Very structured and complex with a nice open section later on.
that was thoroughly enjoyable... but... umm...
wasn't this the band that killed Nearfest?
and if so... WHY?!
unless of course that piece in the video is the exception rather than the rule???
because if that piece is typical of their stuff then I need to get me some of that
Last edited by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER; 12-16-2013 at 04:02 AM.
Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?
I couldn't find a decent live version of Mantis but these two songs were the reason I really got into Umphrey's.
Mantis is often played pretty much the same each time but Ocean Billy is often jammed out to the 20min mark.
Wish they'd come to the UK but I often feel they'd just be playing for me!
The reason they "killed NEARfest" is because apparently, most of the people who attend NEARfest were making their decisions based on who the headliners each year were. And there's apparently a very small pool of headliners that people will travel cross country for, and apparently, Umphrey's McGee ain't one of them.
12/31/13 - New Years Eve, second set @ MSG; "Gamehendge" set. Great stuff.
"Henry Cow always wanted to push itself, so sometimes we would write music that we couldn't actually play – I found that very encouraging." - Lindsay Cooper, 1998
"I have nothing to do with Endless River. Phew! This is not rocket science people, get a grip." - Roger Waters, 2014
"I'm a collector. And I've always just seemed to collect personalities." - David Bowie, 1973
Pretty cool set that one, need to take a listen to the whole of the NYE runs for Phish and Umphrey's!
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