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Thread: Yes-Close To The Edge goes to SACD Finally! :)

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    The latter seems an all too common and strangely accepted practice when it comes to certain engineers; especially Hoffman. I'm with you, this just sounds bizarre. If he messes with the reverb ideas used on the final mix that will be a mess. Of course, I guess that this could mean they really don't have access to the true stereo master and he's using this as an explanation? I don't recall Hoffman typically messing with reverb.
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Yeah, pretty much Actually, I don't really mind an alternate mix as long as the original mix/intent is represented. And I would absolutely consider adding extra reverb an alteration to the mix.
    Again, this is not a remix. In fact, Hoffman has been quite vocal in the past in criticizing the addition of digital reverb in mastering (he did go to the trouble of building a custom echo chamber for the acclaimed Nat King Cole reissues, but those were explicitly remixes). I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised if he were to tinker much if at all with the fundamentals--it just doesn't fit his past patterns. If anything, he is usually criticized for not tinkering enough (i.e., not using noise reduction, digital compression, extreme EQ, etc.)

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Who did The Yes Album MSFL?
    Rob LoVerde did the mastering of The Yes Album MFSL.

  3. #28
    Didn't Hoffman do the MSFL of Fragile a few years back?
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Didn't Hoffman do the MSFL of Fragile a few years back?
    Not the Ultradisc II version (UDCD 766). The mastering of that one was done by Shawn R. Britton.

    Hoffman has done work for other audiophile labels (DCC, Analogue Productions & Audio Fidelity), but I don't recall him working on any projects for MFSL.

  5. #30
    This is what Hoffman did, a vinyl reissue of Fragile (not part of the Friday series).

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/34...m_Vinyl_Record
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I don't like the sound of that at all. What the hell is wrong with going from wet to dry and back? How is that any worse, or more jarring, that going from loud to soft? How has he fixed this alleged deficiency, and what artistic right does he have to do so? I detect a faint but growing odor of bullshit...
    I like the transitions. I like it when the dry band sound comes in. It was the intention of the producer/band.
    Last edited by tullman; 02-18-2013 at 05:29 PM.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    Didn't Hoffman do the MSFL of Fragile a few years back?
    Hoffman did Fragile for vinyl. Which I think sounds great. You do need a pretty good cart etc. to get the most out of that lp.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthNY Mark View Post
    Again, this is not a remix. In fact, Hoffman has been quite vocal in the past in criticizing the addition of digital reverb in mastering (he did go to the trouble of building a custom echo chamber for the acclaimed Nat King Cole reissues, but those were explicitly remixes). I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised if he were to tinker much if at all with the fundamentals--it just doesn't fit his past patterns. If anything, he is usually criticized for not tinkering enough (i.e., not using noise reduction, digital compression, extreme EQ, etc.)
    Is the custom echo chamber at Stephen Marsh's mastering studio? If not, he wouldn't have access to it during mastering.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    I've heard enough of Wilson's work to probably not even bother any longer. Digital remixes just don't do much for me.

    I'll surely check this out, although I find Hoffman's work to often be greatly overrated. He's certainly head and shoulders above some software engineer like Wilson, although they really aren't even doing the same type of work

    I highly doubt anybody will beat Barry Diament's original mastering on Atlantic for digital. My guess is that Hoffman won't be able to help himself and will probably have to work his "midrange magic," which I suspect will be overcooked. No doubt his "followers" will then proclaim a "blanket has been lifted from their speakers" and start an entire legion of Hoffman-endorsed assumptions about the source tape made available to Diament for the original CD release.
    I would bet my house that this will not be from the master tape. Steve Hoffman almost always has pictures of the original tapes when he has access to them. However, this time there were no pictures. Doug Sclar was at the mastering session but refused to comment on what source was used for this reissue.

    I suspect/hope that this might be from a flat DSD transfer from a master tape.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by tullman View Post
    Is the custom echo chamber at Stephen Marsh's mastering studio? If not, he wouldn't have access to it during mastering.
    I don't remember what studio they did the NKC project in. I didn't bring it up to suggest that he would be using it for this--my point was just to say that in the extremely rare event that he does add echo, it is done very carefully and only in the spirit of the original recording. That was a remix--this is only a remaster, and Hoffman is known for being much more minimalist than almost any other well-known mastering engineer in terms of mastering choices.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthNY Mark View Post
    I don't remember what studio they did the NKC project in. I didn't bring it up to suggest that he would be using it for this--my point was just to say that in the extremely rare event that he does add echo, it is done very carefully and only in the spirit of the original recording. That was a remix--this is only a remaster, and Hoffman is known for being much more minimalist than almost any other well-known mastering engineer in terms of mastering choices.
    My only point is that if the reverb chamber is right where he was mastering Close to the Edge, it could have tempting to play with the new toy.

    I doubt Hoffman would add reverb.

  12. #37
    On a related subject, the Rhino Tales was a revelation to me, having only ever had the USA vinyl release (I understand the UK release sounded much closer to the Rhino CD). Which got me thinking - Relayer is the worst sounding Yes release of all time, albeit another of my faves musically - is the Rhino CD version of that a big improvement?

  13. #38
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    March 5, same with "Counterparts." Erg.
    Chad

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    On a related subject, the Rhino Tales was a revelation to me, having only ever had the USA vinyl release (I understand the UK release sounded much closer to the Rhino CD). Which got me thinking - Relayer is the worst sounding Yes release of all time, albeit another of my faves musically - is the Rhino CD version of that a big improvement?
    I've only heard the 1994 George Marino remaster and the Rhino. They sound very different. The Rhino remaster is much drier and less hissy, yet the "vibe" is better on the 1994. As far as i know, it's not clear why they are so different. It might be that Marino used the same bad quality copy tapes that Zal Schreiber used to master the original Atlantic CD, and it may well be that the Rhino remaster was taken from the original non-EQ'd flat-master. But the difference on the amount of reverb is a bit mystery.

    Anyway, if you like the Rhino remaster of Tales, then you'll most likely dig the Rhino one.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Flang View Post
    I've only heard the 1994 George Marino remaster and the Rhino. They sound very different. The Rhino remaster is much drier and less hissy, yet the "vibe" is better on the 1994. As far as i know, it's not clear why they are so different. It might be that Marino used the same bad quality copy tapes that Zal Schreiber used to master the original Atlantic CD, and it may well be that the Rhino remaster was taken from the original non-EQ'd flat-master. But the difference on the amount of reverb is a bit mystery.

    Anyway, if you like the Rhino remaster of Tales, then you'll most likely dig the Rhino one.
    The Marino claims to be from the master and it sounds very similar to the original Atlantic.

    These also sound quite similar the vinyl versions I've heard.

    The Rhino CD version of Relayer sounds bizarre. Never heard another version like it. I also am not sure of the logic behind liking the Rhino Relayer if one likes the Rhino Tales, because the latter has more treble than every other version and the former has less treble than every other version.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    The Marino claims to be from the master and it sounds very similar to the original Atlantic.

    These also sound quite similar the vinyl versions I've heard.

    The Rhino CD version of Relayer sounds bizarre. Never heard another version like it. I also am not sure of the logic behind liking the Rhino Relayer if one likes the Rhino Tales, because the latter has more treble than every other version and the former has less treble than every other version.
    Let's put it this way: both sound very much Bill Inglot-ian. Anyway, the Rhino version is a strange one: less hiss, less treble and less reverb, yet it doesn't sound no-noised to my ears. And it is the same mix.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Flang View Post
    Let's put it this way: both sound very much Bill Inglot-ian. Anyway, the Rhino version is a strange one: less hiss, less treble and less reverb, yet it doesn't sound no-noised to my ears. And it is the same mix.
    Yup. Sounds like Inglot goosed the mids and rolled off treble to my ears. I don't think a different source tape would account for such drastic differences, and given that it also sounds nothing like the original vinyl I suspect that Digiprep just felt it sounded better that way.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    Relayer is the worst sounding Yes release of all time
    Really? I find "Going For The One" to be a much worse-sounding album than "Relayer." Its overuse of reverb is horrible.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    Really? I find "Going For The One" to be a much worse-sounding album than "Relayer." Its overuse of reverb is horrible.
    yesstyles,you don't know what overuse of reverb is until you've heard Fragile,Rhino DVD-A in 5.1. Holy crap someone went insane with reverb on that. Mood For A Day sounds like you are inside an empty gym pool. Not only that,but you know that really cool Wakeman minimoog bass thing right after his piano solo in South Side Of The Sky? GONE! in 5.1......THERE in 2.0. Nobody has been able to explain this. Rarest and worse sounding DVD-A in my collection. I had Relayer on lp,dumped it. Bought the orig. Atlantic cd. Dull as dishwater. Dumped it. Got the 1994 Genarro Rippo,(I thought Marino only did Going For The One.) and it was so trebly it burnt my ears and the cover was changed with a larger logo. Dumped it. Got the Rhino and love it. Easier on the ears,weird or not,def. the best sounding Relayer I have ever listened to.

  20. #45
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    Ok, I am bumping this. Who bought it and what do you think?

  21. #46
    Still waiting for mine to arrive.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by yodathedog View Post
    Still waiting for mine to arrive.
    I hope you don't end up receiving Audio Fidelity's Elton John's Rock Of The Westies Gold CD. Some folks have received that CD instead of CTTE.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by enpdllp View Post
    I hope you don't end up receiving Audio Fidelity's Elton John's Rock Of The Westies Gold CD. Some folks have received that CD instead of CTTE.
    Quality Control anyone?

  24. #49
    FWIW, the reports are coming from folks that bought CTTE via Amazon and also by Import CDs.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by enpdllp View Post
    FWIW, the reports are coming from folks that bought CTTE via Amazon and also by Import CDs.
    Thank you,Amazon is usually my go to vendor too. I'm def. holding off now.

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