Let's get Gryphon to tour U.S.

[battema]

As has been said before...Goblin's touring success is unlikely to be based on their standing as an Italian sympho-progressive band. It was based on their cult status within the horror community and their work with Argento. It was a smart move that paid off CRAZY well for them (and likely for SC3 too), in fact it now appears their touring success has extended longer than the band lineup itself

If PFM were to try and stage a US tour akin to Goblin's...I could be wrong but I would SUSPECT that it would be far less successful.

UK played to moderate-sized crowds on their first pass through...and almost totally-empty rooms the second. Saw similar results for Van Der Graaf Generator and Tangerine Dream.

[Twelfth Earl of Mar]

Tell me which ENGLISH acts from the 1970s you are thinking of of comparable renown (or lack of renown) that have toured in the USA in the last 10 years and didn't have NEARFest or RoSfest or another festival to hang it on to make it possible?

Changing it a bit - A few years ago, The Watch from Italy did a small tour of the Eastern US and Canada. They played the North Star in Philly, and there couldn't have been much more than 50 people there. I can't believe they made any money, but they did a another tour the next year.

[battema]

The Watch tour wasn't them performing as the Watch...they toured as a Genesis tribute act, with a few of their own songs tossed into the mix. My band opened for them at Orion. Largest crowd we'd played to outside a festival.

I'm sure if Gryphon offered to come over and play a Genesis or Jethro Tull tribute show, they'd get some bookings.

[Steve F.]

Charles,

You raise an interesting point, but as John says above.

I guarantee you that 90% of the people there for Goblin aren't there for an old, Italian prog band. They are there because of the tie-in with 70s proto slasher/horror movies and Dario Argento and Dario's hip daughter, who is a celebrity in her own right .

They are movie hipsters/movie fans, not Goblin or prog fans.

I saw Art Zoyd at Lincoln Center 20 years ago. There was something like 1500 people there. They were there for Murnau's classic silent film Nosferatu with a live soundtrack, which happened to be performed by Art Zoyd. They were not there for Art Zoyd. Art Zoyd were the lure for me and about 25 others. Everyone else just knew that 'someone' was providing a live soundtrack and they didn't care who it was.

[strawberrybrick]

Steve, I completely agree only small portion of the crowd was their for "an Italian Prog" band.

[Yanks2014]

Tell me which ENGLISH acts from the 1970s you are thinking of of comparable renown (or lack of renown) that have toured in the USA in the last 10 years and didn't have NEARFest or RoSfest or another festival to hang it on to make it possible?

Why just limit it to acts from England? And I did say a tour would need an "anchor" gig at one of the festivals. As to what I'm doing, nothing, I've never set up a single show before, and never will. I have donated money to a couple efforts, and yes, me stating that I would go is offering support, and helping show some of us are interested. Not much else I can do, not with work and major health limitations. But is that the standard you are setting, that if you can't set up a tour, you have no say on the subject? Ridiculous, but then again, I shouldn't be surprised considering who I'm dealing with.

[Yanks2014]

I guarantee you that 90% of the people there for Goblin aren't there for an old, Italian prog band. They are there because of the tie-in with 70s proto slasher/horror movies and Dario Argento and Dario's hip daughter, who is a celebrity in her own right .

Who cares why the interest is there, as long as people show up? And saying 90% is really an exageration.

[TheH]

I guarantee you that 90% of the people there for Goblin aren't there for an old, Italian prog band. They are there because of the tie-in with 70s proto slasher/horror movies and Dario Argento and Dario's hip daughter, who is a celebrity in her own right .

Was Aria Asia Maria Vittoria Rossa dancing on the stage with Goblin?

[Scrotum Scissor]

saying 90% is really an exageration.

No, in fact it is not. Goblin's favour came by being rescued through a series of highly positive reviews in The Wire mag (and a few others) during the early 2000s when their stuff was being reissued on compilations, thus exposing them to a wider "non-prog" yet "hipster intellectual" crowd who knew next to nothing about the band's stylistic and/or historic turf (i.e. RPI). This again led to them being caught on by the whole Pitchfork machinery.

The only other RPI acts to enjoy anything even remotely comparable (as in "non-prog" appreciation) have been Franco Battiato's early releases, the odd AreA or Pierrot Lunaire reference (especially in Italy itself) and when Japanoise aficcionados discovered Il Balletto di Bronzo's Ys through the infamous Nurse With Wound-list during the 90s, resulting in praise by people like Masami Akita (Merzbow) and Makata Kawaboto (High Rise, Acid Mothers Temple etc.).

[Scrotum Scissor]

saying 90% is really an exageration.

No, in fact it is not. Goblin's favour came by being rescued through a series of highly positive reviews in The Wire mag (and a few others) during the early 2000s when their stuff was being reissued on compilations, thus exposing them to a wider "non-prog" yet "hipster intellectual" crowd who knew next to nothing about the band's stylistic and/or historical turf (i.e. RPI). This again led to them being caught on by the whole Pitchfork machinery.

The only other RPI acts to enjoy anything even remotely comparable (as in "non-prog" appreciation) have been Franco Battiato's early releases, the odd AreA or Pierrot Lunaire reference (especially in Italy itself) and when Japanoise aficcionados discovered Il Balletto di Bronzo's Ys through the infamous Nurse With Wound-list during the 90s, resulting in praise by people like Masami Akita (Merzbow) and Makata Kawaboto (High Rise, Acid Mothers Temple etc.).

[battema]

Was Aria Asia Maria Vittoria Rossa dancing on the stage with Goblin?

Pretty sure that wasn't her up there

[nosebone]

OK, then it's settled...,Gryphon tours with Goblin!

Go find Gnidrolog and we'll have a triple G package!

[battema]

You could re-christen yerselves Gnat Helmet for a tour

[Steve F.]

W But is that the standard you are setting, that if you can't set up a tour, you have no say on the subject? Ridiculous, but then again, I shouldn't be surprised considering who I'm dealing with.

You don't know anything and you don't know how to do anything and here are you admitting that you've never done a show before and then you get angry when someone who does know something about all of this and and has done all of this this tells you why what you are wishing for but not actually doing anything towards is not practical.

And your response is to get personally nasty?

Nice work, Thomas.

Glad you at least admit that you are ignorant about this entire subject. We'll let everyone figure out for themselves what a nasty piece of work you are.

[Steve F.]

Why just limit it to acts from England?

FINE. Name me which NON NORTH AMERICAN (i.e. they have to FLY here and have work visas here) from the 1970s you are thinking of of comparable renown (or lack of renown) that have toured the USA in the last 10 years and didn't have NEARFest or RoSFest or another festival to hang it on and make it possible?

[Steve F.]

Who cares why the interest is there, as long as people show up?

You care about why the interest is there because knowing that is what you need to get people to show up.

Otherwise, you have a badly attended show that turns into a bag of shit for the audience, the venue or the performer (or perhaps all three).

That's why.

[JKL2000]

FINE. Name me which NON NORTH AMERICAN (i.e. they have to FLY here and have work visas here) from the 1970s you are thinking of of comparable renown (or lack of renown) that have toured the USA in the last 10 years and didn't have NEARFest or RoSFest or another festival to hang it on and make it possible?

I THINK Renaissance have done it without a festival appearance, but not 100% sure. Gong too, but that may have been over 10 years ago.

You're probably going to say Renaissance and Gong are higher profile than Gryphon, and maybe you'd be right, though it seems like Gryphon was held in pretty high esteem back in the day. But as far as fame in the US, I guess it was pretty slight.

[Steve F.]

Jed, there is NO comparison between Renaissance and Gryphon. There just isn't. I said of comparable profile. Not esteem. Profile.

I like Gryphon as much or more as Renaissance, but that doesn't make them of comparable profile.

And Gong did it on the back of the Prog Festival that Sean Ahearn / Pangea Music did on the west coast. AND it was well over 10 years ago. It was more like 15.

[battema]

Here's the trick as I see it:

* A bunch of "ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO SEE GRYPHON IN THE US" replies to a thread on PE have no influence whatsoever on Gryphon's current or future touring plans, or guarantee bodies at venues.
* A bunch of "seriously folks, this isn't going to happen" replies to a thread on PE have no influence whatsoever on Gryphon's current or future touring plans, or guarantee people will stay home just because.

I'm not sure why the anger toward Steve in particular...he is being honest based on actual experience.

[A. Scherze]

Annie Haslam has lived outside of Philadelphia for about 30 years and performed regularly under the name of Annie Haslam's Renaissance until she had her health problems.

[LEG-art]

One of my dreams is to see Gryphon live. I used to nag Chad from Nearfest, pleading him to try to arrange them for Nearfest. But the band wasn't viable for most of the years. Now without a Nearfest (wish it was sold or passed the torch to others), I don't think it economically feasible for other prog fests in the US... unless there some sort of kick-starter.... or a grant/funding. Perhaps something with John Williams. The problems people are that they are rarely creative enough to figure a way to make things happen. Perhaps tour with Wakeman using churches (good use of organ). IMHO, Three Friends or Advent would be an acceptable match or even an acoustic Hackett follow-up mini-tour? Okay, enough said, I can dream! LOL And if there was some sort of kickstarter, I would gladly contribute handily.

[JKL2000]

Jed, there is NO comparison between Renaissance and Gryphon. There just isn't. I said of comparable profile. Not esteem. Profile.

I like Gryphon as much or more as Renaissance, but that doesn't make them of comparable profile.

And Gong did it on the back of the Prog Festival that Sean Ahearn / Pangea Music did on the west coast. AND it was well over 10 years ago. It was more like 15.

Steve, is that the Gong 25th Birthday Party tour you're talking about? If so, I didn't know Sean Ahearn had done a festival that Gong appeared at then. I saw them, at The Bottom Line - having more venues like The Bottom Line around back then probably made these things easier too!

A. Scherze (Mathias?) - I didn't know Annie Haslam lived in the US all those years - I remember HER appearing at The Bottom Line a lot too.

[Steve F.]

Steve, is that the Gong 25th Birthday Party tour you're talking about? If so, I didn't know Sean Ahearn had done a festival that Gong appeared at then.

I don't know. They did a big tour around 1994/1995/1996, iirc.

Also - they had never toured the USA and it was before the internet, when people didn't just sit in their basements and wait for it to appear on youtube, but actually had to go out and see it.


Is that when you saw them at the Bottom Line?

having more venues like The Bottom Line around back then probably made these things easier too!

Absolutely.

And, if my recollection that it was 1994/1995/1996 is correct, then it was closer to 20 years ago.

[JKL2000]

I don't know. They did a big tour around 1994/1995/1996, iirc.

Also - they had never toured the USA and it was before the internet, when people didn't just sit in their basements and wait for it to appear on youtube, but actually had to go out and see it.


Is that when you saw them at the Bottom Line?


Absolutely.

And, if my recollection that it was 1994/1995/1996 is correct, then it was closer to 20 years ago.

I think it was 1996, so yeah, more than 10 years!

[GuitarGeek]

Jed, there is NO comparison between Renaissance and Gryphon. There just isn't. I said of comparable profile. Not esteem. Profile.

I like Gryphon as much or more as Renaissance, but that doesn't make them of comparable profile.

And Gong did it on the back of the Prog Festival that Sean Ahearn / Pangea Music did on the west coast. AND it was well over 10 years ago. It was more like 15.

17 years ago. The two Gong tours I remember in the mid 90's were in 96. I'm not sure how those came about, but the 99 tour I'm assuming happened because Gong were invited to ProgFest (same reason Magma came to the US that year).

Before that, I remember Daevid Allen and a few other Gong related people touring in the early 90's, but generally when they came to Cleveland, they played at a place called the Gallery Cafe, which was basically just a little coffee shop type place in the middle of a regular row of shops on East 185th street. And I imagine it was like that for most of the other gigs on those tours (and if I'm not mistaken some of those shows actually happened in people's homes).

The 96 Gong tours was the first time any of them played in a proper concert venue here. The first tour played the Odeon (which was run by a bunch of assholes but it was a nice place) and when they came back around in October of that year, they played the Phantasy Nite Club (smaller than the Odeon, but a much better place for a concert and a well known club here in Cleveland).