Yes - Union vs Open Your Eyes

[Patelena396]

I have been on bit of a Yes kick as of late and have been listening to several albums. That got me thinking about these two most debated and probably most criticized of all Yes albums. There has been no shortage of negative remarks about both albums on this website. That said, I revisited them both recently for the first time in a while and compared them as complete pieces of work.

My conclusion is that I enjoyed 'Open Your Eyes' substantially more from beginning to end. I would dare even say that I was reminded that I rather like the album. 'Close to the Edge' it isn't, but it doesn't aspire to be either. As more of a revisit to the style of the Rabin years, it is pretty successful to these ears. The songs range from good to very good, but I can't say that there is anything on it that I truly dislike.

On the other hand, 'Union' was and still is a challenge to actually get through without jumping tracks. There are moments of quality on it (Lift me Up, Saving my Heart, Miracle of Life, The More We Live-Let Go), but overall the album's negative reputation is pretty well deserved. It is an inconsistent mess. The real disappointment for me with this album has always been with the ABWH material. I was a big fan of the ABWH debut album at the time of release and would have preferred that they continue on as is. That said, the material on 'Union' more attributed to the ABWH line up is pretty consistently lackluster. One can only guess what a true follow up to the debut album would have been like before Jonathan Elias got involved, but it is hoped that it would have been better than how the material plays out on Union.

There is no doubt in my mind that Union is the nadir of the Yes discography. In many ways, it is really not a Yes album in the truth sense of the word and thank goodness for that considering the results. 'Open your Eyes' on the other hand is a bit unfairly maligned in my opinion. It too isn't a true Yes effort as much of the material came from the already existing Squire-Sherwood combination. Some more input from Howe would have been a plus as well. Regardless, it works much better overall than Union and for what it is, it's a pretty entertaining listen to these ears. Though it certainly isn't at the top of the Yes star ratings, it also isn't something that the band need be embarrassed about.

[Paulrus]

Union has higher highs and lower lows than OYE. Overall I'd probably give it the nod, but OYE can be surprisingly listenable at times.

The bottom line, though, is that both albums rank near the bottom of Yes' entire catalog.

[Rufus]

Union by a country mile

[Patelena396]

I try (unsuccessfully at times) to judge each album on its own merits, or lack thereof, rather than comparing to the overall discography. Looking at OYE on its own without burdening it with comparisons to all other Yes albums, it is a decent album. If it was just a Sherwood/Squire/Anderson album in name, I would say that it would be viewed with a bit more respect overall. That said, I agree that it is a Yes album that isn't near the top of the list.

[Patelena396]

Union by a country mile

.

Your simple response begs a bit more detail. Why do you think that Union is so much better?

[Progatron]

Well you've chosen the two that rank at the bottom of the list for me (and many others), but I can always find something to like on every album it seems.

With Open Your Eyes, I thought the Sherwood/Squire partnership was actually quite good, but worked much better on the Conspiracy albums, both of which I enjoy quite a bit if I'm in the mood for some lighter, pop-prog fare. I think the album sounds good too - good music for getting out and walking in the spring time, very 'sunny' sounding. I'm just not wild about a lot of the tracks, and having Anderson and Howe come in way late in the proceedings and attempting to "Yes" it up didn't do much for it either. That being said, I can happily listen to "New State Of Mind", "Open Your Eyes", and even "Man In The Moon" (I know, I know, I'll show myself out). "Fortune Seller" and "Universal Garden" are okay tracks, but there's nothing else on that album that I ever care to listen to. The other memory this album always conjures is the disappointment I felt when it came out and was so radically different to the style found on the two Keys albums (which I loved, and still do). And it also subscribed to that "90s" novelty trend of doing something weird at the end of the final track, stretching out "The Solution" to twenty minutes of ambient sounds and occasional isolated vocal tracks from throughout the album.

Oddly enough, it's the Sherwood/Squire track on Union that appeals to me the most too, with "The More We Live - Let Go". Lovely atmosphere on that one. There are a small handful of other tracks that sound okay I suppose ("Without Hope", "I Would Have Waited Forever", "Shock To The System"), but it's difficult to appreciate them as much knowing the history behind the recording of the album. For the YesWest material, I think "Lift Me Up" is pretty good (and produced that hilarious clip of all eight members pretending to sing along to it! Yeah, like I'm going to believe that Bruford sang that song). The rest of the album - meh. One of my favourites of the Roger Dean Yes covers though. Beautiful. And a strong tour, truth be told, despite the reported conflicts between Howe and Rabin.

To be honest (and I know you didn't ask), I didn't think The Ladder was much better (perhaps marginally so), and only had roughly the same amount of listenable material (another beautiful cover though). It seems to held in higher regard around these parts, but I suspect that's largely due to "Homeworld" (and that is a good track for sure). For me, they vastly improved with Magnification, the strongest release since Keys 2 IMO.

[Rufus]

.

Your simple response begs a bit more detail. Why do you think that Union is so much better?

Because it dosnt have Rabin or Wakey or a Roger Dean cover ! A good Yes album has got to have at least one of those ingredients !

[Patelena396]

Great post Progatron and I agree with many of your comments. I do hold The Ladder in higher esteem than you do though. I think it is a good album and does feel like more of a band effort. I also think it meshes the progressive and more commercial aspects of Yes pretty well.

[TheH]

If those albums weren't Yes albums nobody would care about them

Far below average stuff, not worth discussing. And Union isn't a Yes Album at all, maybe it could be consiered to be a bad tribute album.

[Patelena396]

The 'Lift me Up' video is pretty funny. Maybe in a similar vein they should have done a follow up Union video with all of the session musicians on the album included.

[Man In The Mountain]

Union because it sounds like YES and features the actual virtuoso members of the band - there's even some decent material that's pretty listenable to my ears. The other one, OYE, is a Billy Sherwood project, hastily put together to feature some members of YES that are hard to distinguish for me...

[Scott Bails]

Union by a country mile

Absolutely. Aside from the title track, Open Your Eyes is a turd.

Because it dosnt have Rabin or Wakey or a Roger Dean cover ! A good Yes album has got to have at least one of those ingredients !

Although, this has absolutely nothing to do with why I agree with Rufus on the first point.

The 'Lift me Up' video is pretty funny. Maybe in a similar vein they should have done a follow up Union video with all of the session musicians on the album included.

Haha. Awesome.

[Patelena396]

Union because it sounds like YES and features the actual virtuoso members of the band - there's even some decent material that's pretty listenable to my ears. The other one, OYE, is a Billy Sherwood project, hastily put together to feature some members of YES that are hard to distinguish for me...

Can't disagree too much with your points except that for whatever reason, for me OYE is easier to listen to regardless of where the material came from. I honestly have a tough time making it through Union at this point.

[TheH]

Union because it sounds like YES and features the actual virtuoso members of the band

Apart fom Jon singing there is most likley not a single note played on this album by other Yes members.

[Patelena396]

Absolutely. Aside from the title track, Open Your Eyes is a turd.



Although, this has absolutely nothing to do with why I agree with Rufus on the first point.



Haha. Awesome.

Funny enough, though I didn't mention it in my original post, that is one other thing to dislike about Union. Session musicians on a Yes album!!??? At least OYE doesn't have this negative distinction. The amount of session musicians on Union is incredible, I wouldn't mind so much if the final product indicated a reason for this, but it is more of an additional indication of what a mess the Union album is.

[Scott Bails]

I'm not a fan of the usage of session players, either. But when I listen to the music, the personnel is irrelevant - Union is still light years ahead of OYE.

[Patelena396]

I'm not a fan of the usage of session players, either. But when I listen to the music, the personnel is irrelevant - Union is still light years ahead of OYE.

Fair enough. Perhaps part of my ultimate disappointment in Union has something to do with what it could have been. I still personally find OYE to be a more enjoyable listen just for the songwriting and performances, but Union definitely falls into the category of great disappointments. You know that an album is most likely bad when even members of the band rip on it. I am not disagreeing with your opinion as it is every bit as valid as mine, but Union is a tough listen to me. I realize as well that we are commenting on two albums that rank lowest in fan opinion, so there is no wrong answer. Well, I guess someone saying that Union is their favorite Yes album would be the wrong answer.

I think the only person who may actually feel that their favorite Yes album is Union is perhaps Jonathan Elias and I am not even sure of that.

[Paulrus]

Perhaps part of my ultimate disappointment in Union has something to do with what it could have been.

Actually, that's part of my disappointment with OYE. Remember that several of those songs came out of the Chris Squire Experiment thing from '94, and I can still remember how hot and vital those tracks were performed live. But on the album songs like "Open Your Eyes" (aka "Wish I Knew") totally had their balls chopped off. Jon's little "You got a great imagination." tag is one of the most cringe-worthy moments in recorded Yes history as far as I'm concerned.

That said, several of the songs on OYE aren't bad at all, including "Universal Garden", "Fortune Seller", and "Wonderlove". They're listenable and as long as you don't think of it as Yes (especially Yes with Steve Howe) then they're fine. But most of the songs do have a sort of Big Generator vibe to them IMO. That's my problem with most Billy Sherwood productions in fact: they sound like they're stuck in 1987.

[Scott Bails]

Perhaps part of my ultimate disappointment in Union has something to do with what it could have been. I still personally find OYE to be a more enjoyable listen just for the songwriting and performances, but Union definitely falls into the category of great disappointments.

Oh yeah. Definitely. Could have really been an interesting project, had the suits not been so involved.

[Patelena396]

That said, several of the songs on OYE aren't bad at all, including "Universal Garden", "Fortune Seller", and "Wonderlove". They're listenable and as long as you don't think of it as Yes (especially Yes with Steve Howe) then they're fine. But most of the songs do have a sort of Big Generator vibe to them IMO. That's my problem with most Billy Sherwood productions in fact: they sound like they're stuck in 1987.

I share your feelings about Sherwood, but more so that his stuff just runs together for me at this point. I really liked a lot of his music a few years ago, but more recently, his projects all have a general sameness to them. I don't find anything he does to be bad, but there is nothing distinctive about them either. It's been a while since he did something that really grabbed my attention and demanded continued listens. I continue to support his music hoping that he does something that ranks with some of his earlier work but it's been a while. Talented guy, no doubt, but he has his sound and rarely varies from it.

[Progatron]

Actually, that's part of my disappointment with OYE. Remember that several of those songs came out of the Chris Squire Experiment thing from '94, and I can still remember how hot and vital those tracks were performed live. But on the album songs like "Open Your Eyes" (aka "Wish I Knew") totally had their balls chopped off. Jon's little "You got a great imagination." tag is one of the most cringe-worthy moments in recorded Yes history as far as I'm concerned.

Boy, do I agree with all of this. I never saw the Chris Squire Experiment live (it was only in the southwestern U.S. if I recall...?) but I did have a couple of boot cassettes way back in the day which I enjoyed, and I was pleased several of those tracks made it to the Conspiracy albums (which, if you like OYE, you should really check out if you haven't already). And yeah, "Wish I Knew" is far superior to "Open Your Eyes", and that unnecessary "imagination" line is up there with "No clowns".

Now I'm getting in the mood for Conspiracy! "Violet Purple Rose" is a great example of a track that blows away anything on either OYE or Union, IMO.

[arturs]

I posted to PE about a year or two ago my discovery that with some editing I had turned Union into a quite enjoyable album. I did this after I realized that many songs were good, they were just interspersed with crap, and sequenced terribly. And I tried this with OYE as well but to no avail... Just no saving that one for my ears!

I burned a copy of Union like this:

Lift Me Up
Miracle of Life
Silent Talking
Masquerade
Evensong
I Would Have Waited Forever
More We Live/Let Go
Shock to the System
Take the Water to the Mountain

[Yanks2014]

I wouldn't even put Open Your Eyes In the same ballpark. Even those who hate Union (I'm not one of those) admit there are a few good songs. The turd comment above fits OYE to a t. I just find it unlistenable. But Union, I have several favorites on this. I ignore the controversy about who played what, what was changed, etc. and just concentrate on what is here, and I like most of it a lot. I understand the criticism to a point, but just don't hear it that way.

[bRETT]

Apart fom Jon singing there is most likley not a single note played on this album by other Yes members.

Henry's page and some other posts went into who does and doesn't do what. Looks to be like this:

Howe-- Is on many tracks but only in snippets, all the leads appear to be Haun. (Howe of course plays Masquerade).

Wakeman-- Probably on Angkor Wat, maybe one or two other snippets (organ on I Would Have Waited Forever?), not much else.

Bruford-- Not clear, my guess is that he drums on most of the tracks he's credited for.

The YesWest members appear on all their tracks except The More We Live which is Squire/Sherwood.

Anyone that knows better, please fill in...

[JKL2000]

i have never heard a single note of OYE. One night I'm going to down a bottle of bum wine while listening to it.

http://www.bumwine.com/