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Thread: Verdict in Wishbone Ash name case!

  1. #1

    Verdict in Wishbone Ash name case!

    Home > News > Verdict in Wishbone Ash name case
    Verdict in Wishbone Ash name case
    Comments 9 Martin Kielty at 09:10am October 30 2013

    Andy Powell’s right to own the Wishbone Ash name has been upheld in court – but former bandmate Martin Turner is seeking to appeal the ruling.

    The title has been in dispute for years, with founding member Powell having registered it in 2000 and co-founder Turner having worked as Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash since 2004.

    Turner wanted the registration to be declared invalid, arguing that Wishbone Ash was his “life’s work” and he’d “never willingly left” the band. Powell countered that he’d continued to use the name since the outfit were formed in 1969 while Turner had “left twice to pursue other interests in 1987 and again in 1995″.

    Enterprise judge Douglas Campbell found in favour of Powell, saying in his 135-point ruling: “The Claimant [Powell] has since 1969 been a member of a large number of different band line-ups which have all traded as ‘Wishbone Ash’. The Defendant [Turner] has been a member of some of these lineups, including those which span the band’s most successful period of 1969 to 1981.

    “The Defendant created the name ‘Wishbone Ash’, which the band used.

    “I have found that by February 1998 the Claimant was the sole owner of the goodwill in the Wishbone Ash mark. The situation did not change thereafter.”

    Campbell also found that Powell had never intended his registration of the name to prevent former members of Wishbone Ash from working, noting: “He specifically denied that he made the application in his sole name in an attempt to exclude Steve Upton, the Defendant, or Ted Turner. As he explained in cross-examination, by February 1998 he had concluded that they were not interested in performing under that name.”

    Turner successfully argued for a stay in the ruling so he can seek an appeal. He says in a statement: “Mr Powell unilaterally registered Wishbone Ash in his own name only, without the knowledge of his Mark 1 and 2 band mates, keeping it secret even as they continued to work together on projects such as Lost Pearls.

    “The other Mark 1 and 2 members – Martin Turner, Ted Turner, Steve Upton and Laurie Wisefield – objected and a counter claim was filed, as they felt the registration of the trademark should be shared. Unlike Mr Powell’s case, there was never any attempt to stop Mr Powell using the name Wishbone Ash.

    “The judgement perversely upholds Mr Powell’s registration of the trademark at this time, as if on paper, he is Wishbone Ash, which will defy logic and gravity with many Wishbone Ash fans who remember Argus, New England and the many other iconic albums which have never been eclipsed to this day.

    “The judgement is currently stayed as Martin Turner seeks an appeal on what he is advised are fundamental legal points. As a consequence, it’s business as usual for the forthcoming Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash shows. The judge cut across what Mr Powell was seeking and found that Martin Turner can still use the name Wishbone Ash in concert billing. This was another unsuccessful totalitarian attempt by Mr Powell, who had previously unsuccessfully (in 2004) tried to take the domain name www.wishboneash.co.uk which remains owned and controlled by Martin Turner.”

    Legal firm Walker Morris say in a statement on Powell’s behalf: “Martin Turner formed a band under the name ‘Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash’ in response to which Andy Powell brought trade mark infringement proceedings against him. Martin Turner denied infringement and sought to have the European wide trade mark registration in Wishbone Ash, which is owned by Andy Powell, to be declared invalid.

    “His Honour Douglas Campbell dismissed Martin Turner’s counterclaim and declared both that Andy Powell’s European wide Community trade mark rights to be valid, and that such rights had been infringed by Martin Turner. The judge rejected Martin Turner’s assertion that his previous historical connection with the Wishbone Ash band provided him with a defence.

    “Accordingly, the judge awarded Andy Powell an injunction restraining the future use of the name Martin Turner’s Wishbone Ash, which injunction will be suspended for a short time pending an appeal of the decision which Martin Turner has indicated he is contemplating.

    “The judge also awarded Andy Powell more than £40,000 in costs and has ordered Martin Turner to deliver up all flyers, CD covers and other material which bears the name to which Andy Powell had objected. In addition, Martin Turner was ordered to submit to an enquiry as to what damages and/or unlawful profits were made through his use of the name.”

    An appeal date has not been set.

  2. #2
    Member rapidfirerob's Avatar
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    Sad but I feel this was the right decision.

  3. #3
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Have there been cases where band members have sued because they were kicked out of a band? Because in a way, this seems to be where all these issues begin - kicking a member out of a band is sometimes like abandoning a common-law spouse, and it can seem both understandable to do it, but also seem very cruel and unfair from the POV of the member who's been kicked out. I think they need some kind of legal way to handle those situations (or is there one already?) because it seems like having a legal process for ending that relationship would make it easier to lay the groundwork for how the parted members will continue on with their career.

    On a lighter note, judge Douglas Campbell is now reportedly "totally into early Ash!"

  4. #4
    Wishbone James Harvest? Might resolve a couple of band name usage problems and even create an interesting meld of band members. Might not...

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    Good for Andy. He has carried the flame all through the years and his version of W.A. is still the "real" one in my book.

    Steve Sly

  6. #6
    Sets precedent for Nik Turner and his attempt to register "Nik Turner's Hawkwind" for US performance.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  7. #7
    Martin Turner has announced the formation of his new band, Wishbone F!ck You (formerly Wishbone Lawsuit).

  8. #8
    Member rapidfirerob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Martin Turner has announced the formation of his new band, Wishbone F!ck You (formerly Wishbone Lawsuit).

  9. #9
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    Martin Turner has (Today) lost his attempt to appeal against the trademark ruling and, according to his new Facebook page & website, will be touring as Martin Turner plays the music of Wishbone Ash... The old wishboneash.co.uk site will be for 'legacy' Wishbone Ash news and he has a new site for his solo career...

  10. #10
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    "On February 19th 2014, a Lord Justice [Kitchin] at the Court of Appeal accepted there was an error of law in the first hearing of not considering ownership of goodwill as part of bad faith but he was not prepared to overturn the findings of fact made when the Recorder did consider ownership in the context of the claim for an account. There is an illogical disconnect in that reasoning and it’s unjust but wasn’t overturned."

    Martin Turner's statement:
    "I remain saddened that Andy Powell insisted on pursuing this course of action, rather than engaging in meaningful discussion and negotiation to establish a fair and non-divisive way forwards, as we would all have preferred - even keeping doors open for future collaboration. The decision is perverse, lawyers and barristers are shaking their heads at the injustice. From the minute I received the first demands from lawyers to hand back all my Wishbone Ash ownership in 2004, the legal advice, from several highly qualified advisors, has been consistent, that as a co-owner of the name I must have rights in the trademark and it would be perverse not to be able to use my name as a prefix to the name I co-own. As for confusion, how can any fan really be confused if “Martin Turner’s” is placed before the name? As has been said before, that’s a pretty good clue. Does anyone really believe this case will drive me out of the music business? Or rewrite my history with Wishbone Ash?

    I still can’t get my head round the benefits to anyone of the court actions taken against us, since 2004, ironically since before MTWA started. Ultimately there are no real "winners" in cases such as this and it would appear to me all that Mr. Powell has succeeded in is doing public damage to the good name of Wishbone Ash and dividing a fanbase that is for the most part happy to enjoy the music and performances of all the musicians associated with Wishbone Ash. I understand further appeal options may have been open to me, but I have no wish to protract a process which is damaging the Wishbone Ash legacy. Sooner or later it is time to move on. Now is that time.

    Certainly if Mr. Powell wanted to put me out of business, he should have been aware that I was made of stronger stuff. At the very least, the court has heard that I never willingly left the band. It has been made clear that even though there is no legal doubt the brand is own by 5 of us, the trade mark is a different matter and we should have objected to the registration earlier. This makes no sense to us, but it is what it is. This is a major lesson to youngsters starting out in the industry – be very careful, there is more to being an artist than just being an artist. Injustice is just around the corner if you’re not careful.

    I accept I have to respect the law - and I will respect the law, even if it seems unfair.

    I wish to thank all who have supported me during this particularly unpleasant chapter - my family, my management team, my legal team and the legions of fans who have offered their support both in person at shows and also through the many messages received via e-mail, Facebook, etc. I also thank sincerely my colleagues from the classic line-ups of the band - Steve Upton, Ted Turner and Laurie Wisefield - as well as my current band of Ray Hatfield, Danny Willson and Tim Brown.

    With this sorry and unfortunate episode now behind us, we can at last focus firmly on the job in hand - that of continued exploration of the extensive Wishbone Ash back catalogue, together with moving forward with new studio music. There is a great feeling within my band right now, with a rejuvenated line-up that I believe has great creative potential, our work on both the live stage and the rehearsal room having been very exciting so far. I look forward to seeing you on the road as we continue our celebration of the music that has connected us through the years.

    So we move on, and I urge the entire Wishbone Ash family to come together without negative feelings towards each other. Let the music now speak. Sing. Play nicely together. Let’s please put the bitterness behind us and move on positively. As we grow older and wiser we become more circumspect. I have to accept that this was my destiny whether I like it or not. We cannot avoid our destiny - Written in the stars.”
    "


    It was so nice to see Steve Upton, Ted Turner and Laurie Wisefield join and support Martin in his case and make mention that they will be working together soon. That would be the sweetest, if Andy's suit got Wishbone Ash (minus Andy of course) back together again.
    Last edited by Dan Roth; 02-21-2014 at 06:16 PM.

  11. #11
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Jesus, what's wrong with starting a new band and giving it a new name? If you're good enough, it will eclipse the old name.

    If not, well... I guess you weren't good enough.

    ("Ashbone Wish"?)

  12. #12
    Fishbone Ass.

  13. #13
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    My statement to the members of Wishbone Ash:

    So, if that's a flying saucer coming to pick that guy up or landing on his planet or whatever, why the hell is he dressed in some kind of Bronze Age uniform?

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanRoth

    It was so nice to see Steve Upton, Ted Turner and Laurie Wisefield join and support Martin in his case and make mention that they will be working together soon. That would be the sweetest, if Andy's suit got Wishbone Ash (minus Andy of course) back together again.
    Though I think Powell should have retained the name (HE kept it alive), it's kind of sad that these legal actons sully the name... They might have taken the BJH road.... though I hardly think that's a real solution either

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    ("Ashbone Wish"?)
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Fishbone Ass.
    Mmm!!! I was more thinking of Wishbone Crash
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  15. #15
    In the seventies, Triumvirat's Jurgen Fritz had trouble from former bassist Dick Frangenberg about Fritz using the Triumvirat name without him. As people may know, he got around it by naming the band "New Triumvirat" with their resultant album "Pompeii". Somehow "New Wishbone Ash" doesn't have the same ring to it, tho.
    "and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen

  16. #16
    Wishbone Ash 2: Wish Harder

  17. #17
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Wishbone Asher.
    <sig out of order>

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    So ads for future shows may look like this:

    Martin Turner plays the music of
    Wishbone Ash

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by presdoug View Post
    In the seventies, Triumvirat's Jurgen Fritz had trouble from former bassist Dick Frangenberg about Fritz using the Triumvirat name without him. .
    That's weird since Frangenberg was on what, one album?

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    Member progholio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    Fishbone Ass.
    leave Fishbone out of it, they have enough of their own legal trouble

    http://www.spin.com/articles/fishbon...-dive-lawsuit/

  21. #21
    Jane had the same kind of troubles, resulting in:
    Lady Jane
    Peter Panka's Jane which became Pano's Jane
    Mother Jane

  22. #22
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    I think the New Trolls hold the world record. At different times there where (at least) the following:

    New Trolls (in) Atomic System
    Il Cuore Dei New Trolls
    La Storia Dei New Trolls
    Il Mito New Trolls
    La Leggenda New Trolls
    UT (Uno Tempore) New Trolls

  23. #23
    Member Ten Thumbs's Avatar
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    I think the current line up of WA could be considered as a classic lineup mk 3. They have now been together for as long or longer than the mk 1 or 2 lineups. They have played 100+ shows together each of those years. They are just releasing a third studio album together, as well as some live albums and dvds. I know that the earlier bands released more albums and had greater sales, but that was the way the record biz was in those days; it ain't the 1970s and nowadays sales are much less and bands generally only release two or three albums a decade. I'm familiar with the Elegant Stealth album and I think that it stylistically remains true to the styles of the famous lineups. I've heard them live twice in the past 3 years and their newer material fit in well with the old material. I've only heard MTWA on Youtubes and you never can get a real feel from those. Summarizing, longer time together, tour tenacity, still recording, signature sound = classic WA mk 3.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    That's weird since Frangenberg was on what, one album?
    yeah, he was on only one album, Old Loves Die Hard from 1976, but was also a founding member of the band (1969-70) after which he was replaced by Hans Pape. Still, I see your point, kind of odd.
    "and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by presdoug View Post
    Somehow "New Wishbone Ash" doesn't have the same ring to it, tho.
    That would still violate the trademark, anyway. I will say that Martin puts on a great show. I saw them with Nektar last year and they were fantastic.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

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