The return of Porcupine Tree

[Yanks2014]

Aesthetically speaking, I don't hear a great deal of difference between what Wilson is doing now, compared to either of his first solo offerings or the last two PT albums, so the musicianship of whatever or whomever is lost on me. Its the same motif to my ears. Here's the rub; if I gotta expend some effort to "really hear" the differences, then I may as well move on. My point was/is, I started lamenting the decline of PT long before Wilson stopped making PT albums.

I'm no musician, and I hear quite a bit of difference. So much so I told a friend of mine who likes PT and has even less musician knowledge than me that he wouldn't care much for the solo albums. I still may lend them to him, but I just know he wont like the more experimental side of Wilson that is clearly evident on the first two solo albums. "Raven" is more chops oriented, he may find more to like on it.

[N_Singh]

PT is textures and slabs of dyads, often over-driven.

SW is about songs that have ample space for blowing and feature great ensemble parts and opportunities for creativity for the musicians on a collective and individual basis.

[Wisdomview]

But see, the goals of the current Wilson lineup and that of PT are not the same. And while I place a lot of value on a band's chops, maybe more than most people, the whole chemistry thing can't be overlooked. Just about any band could outplay Pink Floyd, yet I'm sure happy those guys worked together and for a long time.

Good point. For money, chemistry is everything.

[scags]

I enjoy the solo and the P Tree stuff, and consider them two different styles. I'd love to see a reunion, mostly to hear the P tree cataolg played live.

[simon moon]

I was never a major PT fan. Very lukewarm on them. I have a few of their early CD's that get play from time to time.

But The Raven... is close to brilliant. It gets regular play.

I could care less if PT gets back together, as long as Wilson continues the creativity.

[Camelogue]

Steven's last solo effort was better than anything PT in their last three outings.

I humbly disagree.

[Dedatolo]

Never liked much SW solo output, great musicians but boring and outdated stuff to me. I very much prefer to see PT back. Barbieri is one of the best sonic shapers ever existed, I doesn't really matter if he doesn't make 100 notes a second to me....

[N_Singh]

I was never a major PT fan. Very lukewarm on them. I have a few of their early CD's that get play from time to time.

But The Raven... is close to brilliant. It gets regular play.

I could care less if PT gets back together, as long as Wilson continues the creativity.

Really, it's just a marketing name. He could call the next album Porcupine Tree, and if it was with his current band, I'm sure it'll be excellent.

[Wisdomview]

Really, it's just a marketing name. He could call the next album Porcupine Tree, and if it was with his current band, I'm sure it'll be excellent.

Not really. Different people, personalities, and chemistry.

[simon moon]

Really, it's just a marketing name. He could call the next album Porcupine Tree, and if it was with his current band, I'm sure it'll be excellent.

I don't think that is true.

P-Tree is a project in Wilson's mind with certain conceptual and musical attributes. I'm sure Wilson would never release a P-Tree album that sounded like his solo output. Everything that he does sounds different than everything else. Storm Corrosion does not sound like P-Tree does not sound like The Raven, etc.

If he did release an album with the current personnel, with the current musical concept and called it P-Tree, you are correct, I'm sure I'd like it. But it won't happen.

[BobM]

I enjoy the solo and the P Tree stuff, and consider them two different styles. I'd love to see a reunion, mostly to hear the P tree cataolg played live.

That's basically what PT did at the Radio City show a few years ago. 3 hours of revisiting a huge piece of their catalogue. Too bad it wasn't filmed (I think Radio City charges a fortune to let a band film there).

[airborn]

Steven Wilson solo to me sounds like Lizard era King Crimson 40 years later. Robert Fripp moved past that years ago. I personally prefer the sound of PT over SW solo. If I want to listen to recent KC......I'd rather listen to something like "Level Five."

[N_Singh]

Steven Wilson solo to me sounds like Lizard era King Crimson 40 years later. Robert Fripp moved past that years ago. I personally prefer the sound of PT over SW solo. If I want to listen to recent KC......I'd rather listen to something like "Level Five."

Of course you must know that Level five is really part five of a 1973 song

[boilk]

There is nothing, to my ears at least, on The Raven album that sounds remotely like Lizard. GFD...perhaps in a few places.

I like both PT and SW solo.

neil

[profusion]

SW solo makes me think of the early PT albums. I believe Steven said that PT became more restricting once it became a "real band," and he wants the freedom not to have to write for the same group of individuals every time. In essence, I think he's returning to the original concept of PT, which was a solo project in everything but name.

That said, I have no doubt that PT will return at some point.

[BobM]

The Raven was the first album from these guys. They were just getting it together for the first time, and if you listen to the demo stuff it was all Steve playing the parts. So the band members just played what he played and then did their own solo's (more or less).

I bet on the next album Steve might allow them to help collaborate a bit more on the song creation process. Now that could be interesting.

[N_Singh]

There is nothing, to my ears at least, on The Raven album that sounds remotely like Lizard. GFD...perhaps in a few places.

I like both PT and SW solo.

neil

Eh, that was Raider 2 from the prior album.

[glawster2002]

It was a 15 minute piece that was clearly divided in 2 different parts, musically. The first part was based on a programmed beat, with a lot of jazzy bits thrown in. Imagine The Incident (the song) played by his current band (at least this was my thought when I heard it). I really liked this first part.

The second part was mostly heavy mindless riffing which I found very disappointing. This kind of thing already annoyed me when it was done with PT, but I thought SW was over his metal phase now. It really isn't the kind of thing I expected him to be doing with his current band.

Of course, the song is unfinished and may evolve a lot until it is recorded. On the other hand, Luminol as played on the previous tour is quite similar to the final studio version. Guess we'll have to wait and see… next year probably, since SW commented about the fact that there was nothing wrong about releasing an album a year.

When we saw him in Bristol he said the new piece was going to be the fifth track on his next album, however had had no idea if it would be the fifth part of one piece, the fifth separate track, it didn't even have a title, although he himself suggested Lick My Love Pump!

[jkelman]

The Raven was the first album from these guys. They were just getting it together for the first time, and if you listen to the demo stuff it was all Steve playing the parts. So the band members just played what he played and then did their own solo's (more or less).

I bet on the next album Steve might allow them to help collaborate a bit more on the song creation process. Now that could be interesting.

You couldn't be more wrong. With the exception of Guthrie Govan, this is the group that toured Grace for Drowningin 2011/12,and had clocked a lot of road miles. That's why WIlson decided to make The Raven old school - a week in a studio with the band, recording one song/day, send them home, do a week of overdubs/post-production, then mix it and voila! Done!

If you read my September, 2012 interview with Wilson at All About Jazz, you'll see that this was hardly a group just getting used to each other or Wilson. This was a group that was already well-oiled and well-tuned.

Yes, they played Wilson's scripted parts - that's what they call composition; but their performance of those parts were different from an interpretive perspective; subtle, yes, but differences that made the music live and breathe, otherwise he'd have just used the demos and layered the solos on top. There's a reason he didn't do that, and it's called chemistry, which is something this group has in spades.

Sorry to be contrary, but the fact that this was the group's first album doesn't in any way suggest that they were sticking to scripts because they were just getting their feet wet. Heck, they'd already been playing "Luminol" on the 2012 tour (see my review of Get All You Deserve).

Personally, while I do like Porcupine Tree, I think this group and the music that Wilson has been making solo since 2009, beginning with Insurgentes, surpasses anything he did with PT, both from a compositional perspective and because he has a band that - and this is no disrespect to the members of PT (Wilson addresses this in my interview), as this is not music, according to Wilson, that they'd have any interest in playing - can do justice to his writing, which has become, imo, increasingly layered and complex while, at the same time, being totally accessible.

Cheers,
John

[jkelman]

See, my statement is from a non-musician perspective. "linguistic breadth"? I dunno what that means. I don't listen to technique. Aesthetically speaking, I don't hear a great deal of difference between what Wilson is doing now, compared to either of his first solo offerings or the last two PT albums, so the musicianship of whatever or whomever is lost on me. Its the same motif to my ears. Here's the rub; if I gotta expend some effort to "really hear" the differences, then I may as well move on. My point was/is, I started lamenting the decline of PT long before Wilson stopped making PT albums.

You don't need to be a music expert to appreciate Wilson's music. My only point, when I refer to linguistic breadth, is that, if you think of musical skill as tools in a toolhox, Wilson's current band is working with a lot more tools and a lot bigger toolbox. Does that help?

You shouldn't have to expend a lot of energy to hear the differences. I hear oodles of difference between PT and his current music, because of the breadth of experience of these musicians, which, and I mean no disrespect to the members of PT, does exceed certain limitations. As a result, Wilson can write music that, as he said in my interview, PT would not be interested in playing - and, and this is my opinion, with the exception of Harrison, they couldn't play. The complexities of pieces like "Luminol" and "Raider II," for example, demand a different level of musicianship.

The guys in PT are/were great at what they did, but this new band has far broader capabilities, because they're working with a much bigger toolbox, a broader palette, or whatever analogy you want to use for "linguistic breadth."

Hope this helps clarify.
Best,
John

[jkelman]

Good point. For money, chemistry is everything.

Damn straight. The thing is, that both PT and Wilson's current band have chemistry; it's just a different kind of chemistry....

[jkelman]

But see, the goals of the current Wilson lineup and that of PT are not the same. And while I place a lot of value on a band's chops, maybe more than most people, the whole chemistry thing can't be overlooked. Just about any band could outplay Pink Floyd, yet I'm sure happy those guys worked together and for a long time.

I agree with you completely. Where we might differ is it sounds like you think PT has chemistry and Wilson's current band does not. See my last post And i also agree that the goals are different, but what Wilson is doing now, based on my discussions with him in and out of interview, is where his head is at now. That could, of course, change....but at the present time, I don't see PT coming back.

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen

[BobM]

There are some similarities between PT and the new band, after all it is the same composer. However I feel he is shooting for a very different audience. PT was very song-like and a whole lot more accessible musically. The new songs will definitely hold more appeal to hard core Wilson fans and lovers of jazz-like compositions (giving a whole lot more freedom to the musicians, I feel).

I like all of his phases, for different reasons, but there certainly is a continuity and an obvious progression IMO.

[battema]

I could be wrong. It's been known to happen

'ON THE SUNDAY OF LIFE' SOLD MORE COPIES THAN ALL THE LAVA/ATLANTIC PT ALBUMS COMBINED




As has been said before by better folks then me....he's in the lucky position to follow his muse at this point. He doesn't HAVE to do PT, or No Man, or even his current band. IMHO if he (or really any artist) is genuinely enthusiastic about a project, rather than feeling a sense of obligation or expectations, the end result will reflect that enthusiasm. Which generally isn't a bad thing.

[Yves]

So long as he doesn't continue along the lines of "The Incident" I'll welcome a new Porcupine Tree album. I'd love to hear a return to the "Signify" aesthetic.