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Thread: Does today's youth buy into live albums?

  1. #51
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    We know Wikipedia is the all-seeing authority
    Well, JIF thinks they are.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    boot·leg [boot-leg] noun, verb, boot·legged, boot·leg·ging, adjective
    noun
    3. something, as a recording, made, reproduced, or sold illegally or without authorization: a flurry of bootlegs to cash in on the rock star's death.
    This definition implies that any recording which is made without authorization is a "bootleg". You can call it a ROIO, or you can call it chipped beef on toast. It doesn't make any difference. Most of the higher quality pre-90's "ROIO's" are from mass-produced bootleg sources anyway.
    Last edited by Banquo; 10-29-2013 at 11:14 PM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    This definition implies that any recording which is made without authorization is a "bootleg". You can call it a ROIO, or you can call it chipped beef on toast. It doesn't make any difference.
    Did you not read what I wrote right after it?

    By definition, a bootleg doesn't necessarily mean a cash transaction. But, generally, that's how the ROIO "industry" looks at them. There's a lot of gray area that the RIAA deliberately leverages to confuse people. Many traders feel they are within the law, because no money is involved. Those of us who have been collecting ROIOs for the past three-plus decades have always distinguished trades from sales, with sales being bootlegging. I have bought bootlegs, but I traded unofficial recordings. Although the term "bootleg" has been genericised, legally, people are using it to distinguish sold goods from traded goods. The whole download thing has further complicated matters.

    I thought that was pretty damned clear.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Did you not read what I wrote right after it?
    Yep. It was this part that I'm concerned with...

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Those of us who have been collecting ROIOs for the past three-plus decades have always distinguished trades from sales, with sales being bootlegging.
    I've been collecting live recordings for four decades. I've never made that distinction. They're all bootlegs. I've bought them and I've sold them. There's this false assumption that if you "trade freely" then you are either doing a solid for the artist or absolving yourself of any legal responsibility. It's all nonsense.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post

    I've been collecting live recordings for four decades. I've never made that distinction. They're all bootlegs. I've bought them and I've sold them. There's this false assumption that if you "trade freely" then you are either doing a solid for the artist or absolving yourself of any legal responsibility. It's all nonsense.
    I've been collecting for about two decades and neither have I, other than referring to shows as "live tapes" sometimes. To me, a bootleg is any recording that isn't from an official release. I always assumed the whole ROIO business was something that was cooked up in the early days of the internet to confound the Peter Grant wannabes of the world who made seek to shut down those selling and/or trading their clients' music, even though the recordings at hand aren't, never have been and in most cases never will be appearing on any kind of official release, and therefore have zero impact on the 10% said good would be getting from said clients' earnings.

    And certainly when I talk to people about the stuff I have, I say "Oh, I got a Grateful Dead bootleg in the mail the other day", people know what you're talking about. You say "Oh, I got a Grateful Dead ROIO in the mail", nobody knows what that means.

    (and of course, anyone who actually gives a damn, these days, would be asking "Why are you still getting bootlegs in the mail? Why don't you move into the 21st century and download them like everyone else does now! )
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 10-30-2013 at 12:51 AM.

  6. #56
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Does today's youth buy into live albums?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickenbacker View Post
    Opinions?
    Why don't you just ask them? Doesn't matter what my answer is: I don't qualify as "youth"

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    If you go to Wikipedia and search "paris studio," look where it takes you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Studio

    We know Wikipedia is the all-seeing authority.
    Look, almost everyone called it the Paris Studio. I'm sure it was also called the BBC Paris Theatre, but my point stands, in common parlance amongst those going there it was called the Paris Studio, just like the BBC studios in Wood Lane and Shepherds Bush were called Wood Lane Studio and Shepherds Bush Studio not theatre.

    Have a look at the titles and text in these
    http://retronewser.com/2013/04/the-b...-today-1963-2/

    http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f90...st-161781.html
    Last edited by PeterG; 10-30-2013 at 07:17 AM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Anyone who has paid even the slightest attention to Dylan's never-ending tour knows full well that he's been re-arranging songs for decades. I've been to about seven or eight Dylan shows and, while the casual fan might be miffed at not hearing the notes as they are played on the records from 40 years ago, the majority not only know what to expect, they appreciate it.
    That's one thing he does that I love.

  9. #59
    Ah, Guitars 101. One of my favorite sites. Here's a classic:

    http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f90...-a-163469.html
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  10. #60
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    boot·leg [boot-leg] noun, verb, boot·legged, boot·leg·ging, adjective
    noun
    1. alcoholic liquor unlawfully made, sold, or transported, without registration or payment of taxes.
    2. the part of a boot that covers the leg.
    3. something, as a recording, made, reproduced, or sold illegally or without authorization: a flurry of bootlegs to cash in on the rock star's death.

    By definition, a bootleg doesn't necessarily mean a cash transaction. But, generally, that's how the ROIO "industry" looks at them. There's a lot of gray area that the RIAA deliberately leverages to confuse people. Many traders feel they are within the law, because no money is involved. Those of us who have been collecting ROIOs for the past three-plus decades have always distinguished trades from sales, with sales being bootlegging. I have bought bootlegs, but I traded unofficial recordings. Although the term "bootleg" has been genericised, legally, people are using it to distinguish sold goods from traded goods. The whole download thing has further complicated matters.
    huh. That's news to me and I sit corrected. I've purchased 3 bootlegs. 2 Doors albums at a Rock n Roll Flea Market in Philly in the mid 80's and a Golden Earring VHS in 1995. the rest of my unofficial CDRs are from trades or dls.

  11. #61
    I guess I misspoke. Yes, we have called them bootlegs all along. But, since the advent of online downloads and trading, the activity has expanded which created a distinction between what is called a bootleg (with money exchanging hands) and what people feel are in that gray area of trading ROIO and demonstration recordings.
    Last edited by ronmac; 10-30-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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  12. #62
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Some live albums are amongst the definitive versions of the band or provide such dynamically different versions they are worth owning to appreciate as separate pieces. Off the top of my head I can't imagine being without

    Deep Purple - Made In Japan
    King Crimson - Great Deceiver Box
    801 - Live
    Hawkwind - Space Ritual
    Motorhead - No Sleep til Hammersmith
    AC/DC - If You Want Blood

    If you can't recognize that the versions on these albums are different, not inferior, you kind of missing the point.
    Don't forget Magma - Live Hhai

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Ah, Guitars 101. One of my favorite sites. Here's a classic:

    http://www.guitars101.com/forums/f90...-a-163469.html
    D'ya know what I think happened, the BBC officially changed the name at some point Paris Theatre but people carried on calling it The Paris Studio. That might explain the double name.

  14. #64
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I've downloaded stuff from Guitars 101 but my main issue with them is they use those dodgy places to download from like Rapidshare. I prefer Traders Den and Dime where I can just torrent.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    D'ya know what I think happened, the BBC officially changed the name at some point Paris Theatre but people carried on calling it The Paris Studio. That might explain the double name.
    So, we'll call it a draw. I was only toying with you, anyway. I really couldn't care less about it. No hard feelings, bro.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  16. #66
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    No, none at all.

    But it is quite common in England, especially in London, for something to have an official name but its visitors call it something else usually due to its location, a previous name or an incident.

    One of the most obvious examples is the Labatt's Apollo in Hammermsith, which everyone of an age still calls the Hammersmith Odeon.
    Another one is the Chelsea & Westminster Hospital on Fulham road, that older people myself included still call by its old name St. Stephens.
    Several London pubs have a local name and an official name.

  17. #67
    People refer to me as names I would never use myself.
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