Make a Rising

[NogbadTheBad]

Autobuy.

[Udi Koomran]

I guess a deal with OutsideIn or Kscope and a tiny note in 'Prog' would be needed to levitate MaR to unseen heights with the mighty Prog Folks...

their bandcamp page says

"
*IF YOU LIKE THESE SONGS, FEEL FREE TO SHARE THEM WITH YOUR FRIENDS. We don't plan on making a living from this band. We just like writing songs and sharing them with people. "

[Scrotum Scissor]

^

Which is probably the one and only rightful attitude to cultivate with this kind of demanding/challenging pop/rock music nowadays.

[Steve F.]

^

Which is probably the one and only rightful attitude to cultivate with this kind of demanding/challenging pop/rock music nowadays.

Since you brought up Prog, it's also a great way to not get signed and not get any 'established' press coverage, however.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Since you brought up Prog, it's also a great way to not get signed and not get any 'established' press coverage, however.

This is and will remain sad but true, it seems; if they aren't into the endeavours of the '500-lim.ed. vinyls only' antic, I suppose we won't be so lucky as to see another actual MaR CD of any sort. Bands as unusually original and innovative (though generally accessible!) as this can probably not do much worse than come out as "prog" - the renewed and redeemed liberties of judgement towards the 70s notwithstanding. A thought-experiment to ponder; say if some Wire mag hipster (Thurston Moore, Keiji Haino or whoever, tho' not likely) had endorsed the group albeit sans any association with the "P" word - would MaR have fared potentially better?

And although an enterprise like the always wonderful AltrOck would no doubt be thrilled to have an act such as this on board, something tells me MaR are the cats to aim much higher than the pressing of 1000 CD copies could ever imply. And why wouldn't they; bands of this individual caliber deserve to be as big as Guided By Voices etc.

[Steve F.]

A thought-experiment to ponder; say if some Wire mag hipster (Thurston Moore, Keiji Haino or whoever, tho' not likely) had endorsed the group albeit sans any association with the "P" word - would MaR have fared potentially better?

That's a fine question and one I can not answer.

I don't think that the hipster stuff that gets positively covered necessarily does that great or that much better; it just gets some press and then it gets ignored in the marketplace.

P.S. Thurston very enthusiastically endorsed Upsilon Acrux; we still couldn't get them reviewed in The Wire which I think upsets Paul to this day.

[Steve F.]

And although an enterprise like the always wonderful AltrOck would no doubt be thrilled to have an act such as this on board, something tells me MaR are the cats to aim much higher than the pressing of 1000 CD copies could ever imply.

If that is indeed true, why are they giving their music away?

[Scrotum Scissor]

If that is indeed true, why are they giving their music away?

That's an *incredibly* potent question! But then again, why would anyone? Is it defaitism against the acknowledgement that music today mostly ends up getting stolen anyway?

[Scrotum Scissor]

P.S. Thurston very enthusiastically endorsed Upsilon Acrux; we still couldn't get them reviewed in The Wire which I think upsets Paul to this day.

Oh, I didn't mean to put down the tastes or inputs or relevance of T. Moore in any sense whatsoever; I still remember how he talked about Sun Dial's Other Way Out back in the early 90s, something no one else of any importance were doing - and which consequently prompted me into checking out Sonic Youth (as I didn't previously know who he was). IIRC, it was also he who first spoke with any note about The Spacious Mind, or at least mentioned them - although I could be mistaken. This was 20+ years back.

Of course, it didn't really help Extra Life that Tyondai Braxton bragged panegyrically about them either. Bummer still to hear about the shunning of the Upsilons, as they are a truly remarkable example of an out-and-out progressive rock group by any thinkable contemporary standard.

[Steve F.]

That's an *incredibly* potent question! But then again, why would anyone? Is it defaitism against the acknowledgement that music today mostly ends up getting stolen anyway?

Why would anyone? IMO, it's because they think it's the only way to get people to bother to listen to them.

Which certainly brings home how completely and utterly devalued music has become in the last 6-8 years.

[Steve F.]

Oh, I didn't mean to put down the tastes or inputs or relevance of T. Moore in any sense whatsoever.

Good! Glad to hear! IMO, he is the most important prostlitizer (sp) for interesting music to young people / a broader audience that there has been for the last 25-30 years!

[Steve F.]

And although an enterprise like the always wonderful AltrOck would no doubt be thrilled to have an act such as this on board, something tells me MaR are the cats to aim much higher than the pressing of 1000 CD copies could ever imply. And why wouldn't they; bands of this individual caliber deserve to be as big as Guided By Voices etc.

Make A Rising are an excellent band. I dig them a lot.

Other than the fact that nearly every time I release some young, interesting, pushing the envelope type band that could be called 'progressive', Cuneiform gets it's ass beaten sales wise, I would be thrilled to be releasing a lot more of this sort of stuff; there's certainly no shortage of excellent bands plowing those fields.

But that fact prevents me from doing so. See 'music, devalued' above and feel free to weep with me...

[mjudge]

I don't think that the hipster stuff that gets positively covered necessarily does that great or that much better; it just gets some press and then it gets ignored in the marketplace.

If my experience is any indication, that's it, right there. I've had the painful experience of working with some people who thought that a lot of blog buzz meant money and safe places to sleep, and it means nothing of the kind.

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^

[Scrotum Scissor]

nearly every time I release some young, interesting, pushing the envelope type band that could be called 'progressive', Cuneiform gets it's ass beaten sales wise, I would be thrilled to be releasing a lot more of this sort of stuff; there's certainly no shortage of excellent bands plowing those fields.

But that fact prevents me from doing so. See 'music, devalued' above and feel free to weep with me...

I know. And it's not only a tragedy but a travesty, seeing how it basically implies that although actual progressive rock music (on a proportionately creative level as of yore) may DO still exist, they are nowhere near a conjunction with the audience who defines itself along that line. You'll may be able to turn on 40-50 new people in, say, a place like PE to someone like, say, Ahleuchatistas or Algernon or The Cellar and Point - but there'll still be ten times the number of folks who'd rather continue anticipating that next thread on Steve Hackett's argile socks worn or why the hell Saga aren't being proposed for this year's R&RHoF.

If rock listeners - 'progressive' or other - had been this laced in artistic apathy back in 1968-72, there would never have been a friggin' "prog" in the first place. And I'm NOT a cynic.

[mjudge]

I know. And it's not only a tragedy but a travesty, seeing how it basically implies that although actual progressive rock music (on a proportionately creative level as of yore) may DO still exist, they are nowhere near a conjunction with the audience who defines itself along that line. You'll may be able to turn on 40-50 new people in, say, a place like PE to someone like, say, Ahleuchatistas or Algernon or The Cellar and Point - but there'll still be ten times the number of folks who'd rather continue anticipating that next thread on Steve Hackett's argile socks worn or why the hell Saga aren't being proposed for this year's R&RHoF.

If rock listeners - 'progressive' or other - had been this laced in artistic apathy back in 1968-72, there would never have been a friggin' "prog" in the first place. And I'm NOT a cynic.

Well, I think you're seeing the effects of two things here: the existence of the internet, and within that larger rubric, the development of taste-marketing. In '68-'72, nobody knew yet what prog was supposed to be, because it was being created in that moment; since '68-'72, there's been a fairly constant (if certainly dilating and contracting) market for people doing revisionist versions of the same stuff, and a parallel market for the later, usually less interesting work of the people who invented "prog," such as it was, during that first time period. So now, if I like Genesis (and I still do, to some degree), I can use Spotify/Rhapsody/blogs/etc to go find a thousand bands from all over the world and all of the last 40 years who sound like capable pastiches of Genesis, whereas in '72, if you liked Genesis, I've gotta assume it was more likely that somebody would say, Oh, then have you heard Zappa? King Crimson? Henry Cow?

Which is also, incidentally, part of what I miss about real record stores. A huge part of my musical education came from buying a few things at a few stores each, none of which still exist, having a couple interested clerks get to know my taste, and then having them give me suggestions every time I came in. R.I.P. Recycled Sounds of Kansas City. I go buy Zappa, somebody asks if I know Zorn, I look up Zorn's sidemen, which leads me to Marc Ribot, and via Ribot I get to Tom Waits, Albert Ayler, Arsenio Rodriguez ... by and large, that just doesn't happen anymore.

[mjudge]

And let me give a big salute to guys like Steve, who keep doing what they do against the marketplace's indifference. In the last 4 years of writing books that nobody gives a shit about, I've come to understand how exhausting it is to scream at a wall every day, hoping but not expecting that it'll suddenly turn into a window, and Steve's been doing it since, what, the early '80s? A fanfare of broken windows to you, man.

[Steve F.]

^ ^ ^ ^

Thank you. Very nice of you to say that.

"Screaming at the wall" was not really a problem for me. I never looked at it that way. I never expected most people to care. I never was particularly bothered by the market place's indifference.

I'm sure that that is how I lasted this long.

I did expect the people who did care and wanted what we offered to support it.

So, for me the really bad part is having people steal your work, having them write on chatrooms or blogs how much they like the work and how everyone else should listen to this great stuff, while stealing from you.

"Cuneiform's such a great label, I almost feel bad for uploading these" was one favorite of mine on a blog that then linked to various download sites.

That's the sort of thing that has killed part of me inside.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I did expect the people who did care and wanted what we offered to support it. [...] So, for me the really bad part is having people steal your work, having them write on chatrooms or blogs how much they like the work and how everyone else should listen to this great stuff, while stealing from you. [...] That's the sort of thing that has killed part of me inside.

This is far beyond appalling and regrettable. And those folks display a level of real-time cynicism I won't ever bother to lay out. You know, the internet initially brought about a set of graceful benefits foistering, confirming and reflecting the positive in man; the sense of sharing, qualities and information - before essentially coming through as a haven for theft, filth and lie instead. I suppose the outcome is a generally pessimistic view on the nature of man as medium of global and social interaction. I sometimes find it baffling that meeting him in person didn't reveal man's shitty face - I had to experience it firsthand through my PC. I guess I was naive.

[Udi Koomran]

In the meantime I am busy turning Jesse on Aquaserge and L'Enfant Assassin Des Mouches

[chalkpie]

In the meantime I am busy turning Jesse on Aquaserge and L'Enfant Assassin Des Mouches

Two of the best right there ^. I am totally LOVING that Jean-Claude album - holy schnitt!! SOOOO great. And of course Aquaserge is the best.

[NogbadTheBad]

Need to get that Jean Claude.

[Udi Koomran]

Jean Claude I discovered through our Scissor and for that and many other insights I will be forever grateful
btw I discovered Normal Love through the Make a Rising bancamp page
And I got to know of make a rising through our friend Marcello Marinone
Its good to have friends

[Scrotum Scissor]

Yupz, Jean Claude and 'serge are realslayers fer sure.

[Udi Koomran]

I thought Jesse should also hear The Nerve Institute I suspect he will appreciate the songwriting, arrangements, playing, vibe.
Frankie are you hip to Mr. Judge ?