Tom Petty Calls Out Contemporary Country Music

[No Pride]

A few good acts still slip through to the mainstream

A case in point: While channel surfing the tube the other night, I found an Alison Krauss & Union Station concert. It was excellent older school country/bluegrass with all of the integrity intact; tasty playing and beautiful vocal harmonies.

[klothos]

Devil's advocate question - would you say 'traditional' country started to die (ie: transition to crossover pop as we know it now) as far back as the late 60s?

Then Garth Brooks came along, and Nashville figured out how to package country like rock and pop and market it accordingly. A few good acts still slip through to the mainstream, as they do in rock and pop, but overall what passes for popular country music is just corporate, soulless top 40 pap with fiddles and steel guitars.

Agreed -- in the early 80s, acts like Alabama were prototypes to help set the final blueprint, which was Garth Brooks....Garth (and subsequent acts like Brooks & Dunn, etc) was the turning point

[NeonKnight]

Ah the irony of Tom Petty crying about music that sounds "generic" and lacks "magic"!

Sounds like 90% of his own whiny, nasal vocals. In fact, he should write a new song all about it. $$$$$$$

[Banquo]

Ah the irony of Tom Petty crying about music that sounds "generic" and lacks "magic"!

Sounds like 90% of his own whiny, nasal vocals. In fact, he should write a new song all about it. $$$$$$$

Or maybe you can write a hit song to show Petty how it's supposed to be done.

[klothos]

Or maybe you can write a hit song to show Petty how it's supposed to be done.

I read this "If its so easy, you do it" retort here on PE at least once every three weeks

This actually isn't a good response: I know plenty of people who have written excellent songs that have giant hit potential....the fact that these people aren't able to break into the industry, get it to the right people, and have their music chart for whatever reasons should not be a reflection on their songwriting skills. As a matter of fact, some of these keep their songs to themselves and their small circle of friends by choice, and have no desire to market their product to a national level (those readers in Tampa, Fla may know a local artist with the initials K.A. -- he's one of these). The "Charted Hit Single" part only emphasizes being at a certain place at a certain time and the road traveled to get the song there.

[GuitarGeek]

Willie Nelson wasn't pretty either but he wrote some great songs that were indeed country and he was accepted as a "star" when the look didn't supercede talent and honesty.

Well, you have to remember though that initially, Willie went to Nashville, and let them dress him up the way they did every other singer there. He got a haircut, they put him in a suit, and his records were overproduced by like everyone else in Nashville. Some of them were successful too (and of course, things like Patsy Cline's recording of Crazy, was VERY successful).

Willie eventually became disenchanted with "the biz", and after his Tennessee ranch burned down in 1970, he took it as a sign that he should move back to Texas. And when his contractual obligations with RCA were fulfilled, he decided he had enough, and was going to retire from making records. It wasn't until 1972 that he was offered a record deal where he wouldn't have to conform to some image of what a country singer was supposed to look like and could make records that sounded the way he wanted them to sound. That's when his recording career started to take off, during the "outlaw country" era.

The "today's country" phenomenon has it's roots back in the late 50's, when producers like Chet Atkins and Owen Bradly started with "the Nashville Sound", which involved applying pop music production to country music. They de-emphasized the traditional instruments (ie steel, fiddle, guitars) and brought in smooth harmony vocals, strings, and drums. The last one might sound ridiculous, but drums weren't used in country music before the 60's. In fact, drums were banned on the Grand Ole Opry until the mid 60's.

Then in the mid and late 60's, producers started pushing the music even further toward the middle of the road. You started getting people like Glenn Campbell, Tammy Wynette, etc. Later on, in the 70's, you started getting people like Kenny Rogers (once he divested himself of The First Edition), Tanya Tucker, Barbara Mandrell, The Bellamy Brothers, and Larry Gatlin.

So the idea that this is a "new thing" or even that it began in the 80's, is off the mark, as far as I'm concerned.
.

[Banquo]

I read this "If its so easy, you do it" retort here on PE at least once every three weeks

This actually isn't a good response: I know plenty of people who have written excellent songs that have giant hit potential....the fact that these people aren't able to break into the industry, get it to the right people, and have their music chart for whatever reasons should not be a reflection on their songwriting skills. As a matter of fact, some of these keep their songs to themselves and their small circle of friends by choice, and have no desire to market their product to a national level (those readers in Tampa, Fla may know a local artist with the initials K.A. -- he's one of these). The "Charted Hit Single" part only emphasizes being at a certain place at a certain time and the road traveled to get the song there.

I read this as "I can write and record on Tom Petty's level, but I'd rather take the bus to work."

I guess Petty musta been at that "certain place at a certain time" on many occasions.

[trurl]

So the idea that this is a "new thing" or even that it began in the 80's, is off the mark, as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly. However, I think I would argue that in the past the pop-ification of country has still retained elements that kept it quintessentially country. I think apart from the singer's accent, that's disappeared. There were always some artists though like Ronnie Milsap who I like a lot but why he was even considered country at all I don't get.

[Banquo]

There were always some artists though like Ronnie Milsap who I like a lot but why he was even considered country at all I don't get.

And you claim to be from Tennessee? Pick on Lee Greenwood. He's from Los Angeles, and wouldn't know a "Dixie Road" if it rose up to meet him.

[trurl]

Pick on Lee Greenwood. He's from Los Angeles, and wouldn't know a "Dixie Road" if it rose up to meet him.

Oh, with pleasure! You know Walter Moore, one-time GH drummer/singer/guitarist ran sound for him at his Pigeon Forge theater and confirmed Lee was basically a walking hard-on. Did I mention I think Ronnie Milsap is excellent? But those later hits, they were adult contemporary.

[klothos]

I read this as "I can write and record on Tom Petty's level, but I'd rather take the bus to work."

I guess Petty musta been at that "certain place at a certain time" on many occasions.

I don't understand why you can't fathom that this biz isnt for everybody and that, for some people, it isnt about the money

....and just because "Disco Duck" hit the charts in the 70s doesnt make it a better song than the zillions of other songs written by unknown artists from that era that never had an opportunity to get something out.

[Banquo]

I don't understand why you can't fathom that this biz isnt for everybody and that, for some people, it isnt about the money

....and just because "Disco Duck" hit the charts in the 70s doesnt make it a better song than the zillions of other songs written by unknown people from that era.

You changed your response three times, so you must be flustered. And now you're settled on comparing Disco Duck to TP's body of work? Come back when you got something. I'll be waiting.

[klothos]

You changed your response three times, so you must be flustered. And now you're settled on comparing Disco Duck to TP's body of work? Come back when you got something. I'll be waiting.

I changed it because I didn't want to sound egotistical yet I wanted to interject some of my own experiences as well those of some very talented friends

I was signed in the 90s but I got screwed by my label

In Tom Petty's case, "making it" (in that era) was a single-man's game.

When Tom Petty broke into the industry, did he have financial support behind him? An eager mangement team? Was he married back then? Did he have the responsibility of children? These are just some of the multitudes of reasons why certain people didn't push themselves to get their music out.......

There is your unedited response: Enjoy

[Banquo]

I changed it because I didn't want to sound egotistical yet I wanted to interject some of my own experiences as well those of some very talented friends

I was signed in the 90s but I got screwed by my label

In Tom Petty's case, "making it" (in that era) was a single-man's game.

When Tom Petty broke into the industry, did he have financial support behind him? An eager mangement team? Was he married back then? Did he have the responsibility of children? These are just some of the multitudes of reasons why certain people didn't push themselves to get their music out.......

There is your unedited response: Enjoy

Man, I'm smelling a little bit of jealousy. Just because things didn't work out for you, doesn't mean that TP doesn't deserve everything he has. Out of all of the choices available, you're absolutely picking on the wrong one.

[klothos]

I just Googled it: Yes, he was married. This brings in a whole new set of questions: Was she supportive of his music career (Obvious answer here)? Was she holding down the household while he pursued his dream?

The bottomline is: "Hit Single" only means a song traveled to a destination to be put out en masse by the industry and it was popular with the masses. That is all it means.

Each man measures what is success for himself. Having had a bad taste of the industry at large, I have a plethora of songs that I have written over the years. Are they as good as any of Tom Petty's? I dont know, but Im not beating down doors to try to get them out, either. If someone comes up to me and says "Hey, arent you so-n-so from that band in the 90s? We are looking for songs, ya got any?" then I may be inclined to play them some but, other than that, they can stay safely within the confines of my backup drive with no interest from me to promote them.

Success for me is when I look around my house and see my wife and two daughters.

[Scott Bails]

So, yeah, Country music today really sucks, doesn't it?

[NeonKnight]

Or maybe you can write a hit song to show Petty how it's supposed to be done.

LOL! Talk about missing the point.

I only wish I could be like Petty. Make millions by whining about stuff with a most nasal voice. And then cry about others who write the same generic crap I do.

If it was so easy everybody would do it.

[Banquo]

Success for me is when I look around my house and see my wife and two daughters.

Fine. Then what's the problem? Because you obviously have an issue with Tom Petty.

[Banquo]

I only wish I could be like Petty.

Nuff said.

[profusion]

Petty's completely correct, but, as many others have pointed out, this is a long-running phenomenon. Crossover country was still at least recognizably country until sometime in the '90s, even if pop/rock elements were creeping in.

Shania Twain's songs were the first I heard that really didn't sound anything like country, and her band of the time was the first I remember that traded Telecasters for cranked up Strats into Marshalls and had "big drums." The fiddle player was the only country thing going on in that whole affair.

It's only gotten more ridiculous from there. But then, so has every other "mainstream" music genre.

[Scott Bails]

Shania Twain's songs were the first I heard that really didn't sound anything like country, and her band of the time was the first I remember that traded Telecasters for cranked up Strats into Marshalls and had "big drums." The fiddle player was the only country thing going on in that whole affair.

Yeah, that's "Mutt" Lange for ya.

[GuitarRanger]

I agree with TP, 100%.

Same could be said for most US Pop music in general, I'm afraid.

[Gruno]

Then in the mid and late 60's, producers started pushing the music even further toward the middle of the road. You started getting people like Glenn Campbell, Tammy Wynette, etc. Later on, in the 70's, you started getting people like Kenny Rogers (once he divested himself of The First Edition), Tanya Tucker, Barbara Mandrell, The Bellamy Brothers, and Larry Gatlin.

So the idea that this is a "new thing" or even that it began in the 80's, is off the mark, as far as I'm concerned.
.

Definitely agree!

Exactly. However, I think I would argue that in the past the pop-ification of country has still retained elements that kept it quintessentially country. I think apart from the singer's accent, that's disappeared.

Really?

What makes these country?

[klothos]

Fine. Then what's the problem? Because you obviously have an issue with Tom Petty.

You are twisting my words around: Go back and look at my posts and where do you figure I have an issue with Tom Petty? ....I have no issue with Tom Petty: you are confusing me with another poster

My issue with you was the "If its so easy, why dont you do it?" mantra of writing a Hit Single in which I will reiterate:

A Hit Single is only a reflection of the time and place of an individual song, the driving force of the songwriter and publisher, and the road it traveled to get there. There are plenty of songwriters out there who write quality hit material but either (A) don't have the opportunity or know-how to sell it or (B) don't care to have the opportunity to sell their music as such....You can't see the logic in this, like they are giving up some kind of hypothetical goldmine, and I am tired of writing this over and over.

I have no issue with Tom Petty. I personally like some of his music...I also think some of his songs suck, too.

[3LockBox]

Country Music has been a cookie-cutter business since the '60s. Just like Motown and pop mainstream, there were writing think-tanks that churned out tunes custom suited for whomever the "star" was. In the '90s its was the "black hat syndrome" and in the '00s country mainstream and pop mainstream are barely discernable, with studios turning out production variations of the same song to custom suit different genres (Mutt Lange started that trend with Shania Twain's albums). With regards to country groups, its rare that the musicians you see on stage are the same ones who were on the albums - the idea was that while the guys in the groups can rehearse their parts and get them down in time for touring, seasoned musicians could churn out an album and get it to the shelves faster.

As Turl said, Petty is 30 years too late in making this assessment. There was a kind of surge in alt-country back in the '90s, but it was short lived (and not very popular).