Good music & bad lyrics, together--Outstanding examples

[A. Scherze]

The first Ethos album.

Musically it's up there with the best American prog of its day. But lyrically, it is both painful and laughable simultaneously.

But there are so many great, blistering instrumental sections, that I am able (for the most part) to ignore the lyrics.

You beat me to them.

The one that really drives me nuts is Everyman. Not only are the lyrics bad, but they filled with HUGE logical inconsistancies. Then, to top it off, their (cliche) moral which they seem to think is, "Even outsiders perform valuable functions for a community," is actually, "Don't piss off the crazy dude, or he will help the town grow so he can kill more people when he wipes it out."

[ronmac]

Yeah, I agree. I don't mind the 70's era lyrics, but I can see where one might look at them and say "This is exactly why people make fun of progressive rock!".

Well, I would share the lyrics of "A Farewell to Kings" to shut them up.

[GuitarRanger]

some are cringe-worthy that's for sure
but

"we'll talk of places that we went and times that we have spent
together penniless and free"

is one of my favorite lyrics

ELP could go in either direction. "Lucky Man" has a strong narrative & imagery.
"Infinite Space", a bit more, uh, bumpy.

But hey, world-class musicians are rarely great lyric writers.

Procol Harum was wise enough to get a non-musician lyric specialist, in Keith Reid.
Good idea, for that band.

Also, Peter Brown (an outside musician-lyricist) wrote with Jack Bruce & Cream.

Traffic/Winwood were lucky to have a drummer who was a fine lyric writer in Jim Capaldi.


Talents like Peter Townshend (great innovative rock musician and songwriter who had a flair for lyrics)
are rare. Many really gifted musicians are not necessarily "word-people."

[ronmac]

Talents like Peter Townshend (great innovative rock musician and songwriter who had a flair for lyrics)
are rare. Many really gifted musicians are not necessarily "word-people."

Jimi was a great lyricist, too.

[Progtopia]

I was a bit shocked by "health food faggot" until I learned it meant something different. Still, that's a word that's lost to casual use.

Yeah, I found out the alternative meaning later, but it's more than that about that song. It just seems disjointed to me somehow.

[GuitarGeek]

Well, I would share the lyrics of "A Farewell to Kings" to shut them up.

I'm not sure that would strengthen your argument, in terms of "shutting up" people who think progressive rock is the reason "punk rock had to happen".

If I was gonna argue with someone who thinks Neil's lyrics are all "teenage poetry" or whatever, I'd be more inclined to had them something like The Pass or Subdivisions. Then I'd point out that not all Rush lyrics are written by the drummer, then hand them the lyrics to Tears and Different Strings, which I still think are the best in the Rush catalog.

[PeterG]

Good music + bad lyrics = the entire Trespass album, the lyrics on that make me cringe.

[Trane]

As to Cygns X-2, the geek in me loves it. Do I have a clue what they were trying to say with those words? Not at all, and that doesn't matter musch. The words sound good when sung, that's the bottom line. I see profound or highly intelligent lyrics (if attached to strong music) as an added bonus, but not something that is always neccessary. Heck, I think I prefer total nonsense lyrics.

Well;with other Rush albums of the times, Peart's lyrics were comprhensible (I wouldn't say straightforward, but almost)... In X-2, they're not ... They sound like Jon Anderson gibberish mixed with some other impenetrable writer

I assume you mean Cygnus X-1 Book II. There are allusions to Greek mythology, but I think the it was more that Neil had read an article in Time magazine about the human brain, and how one side of the brain takes of logic and the other side of the brain takes care of emotion and creativity.

Apollo and Dionysus are names from Greek mythology, but I think Neil may have made up most of the other stuff. I'm not an expert on mythology (most of what I know I got from watching Clash Of The Titans), but a quick poke around the internet suggests, for instance that Dionysus was the God of the grape harvest, winemaking, and nature, not the "Bringer Of Love", as Neil suggests. I suspect Neil just imported the names because he thought they were "intellectual sounding" and made up the rest.

Yeah, I always called it X-2 for short on forums... figured no-one would pick it up after 10 years on my web presence

Dyonisos was the god of wine and feast/orgies (suxual included) >> debauchery in general, The Roman equivalent Bacchus was only about wine & foods.

That was also a popular theme with Ayn Rand who he was probably still into at the time- the war between logic and mysticism represented by Apollo and Dionysus.

Well, if memory serves Apollo is the god of beauty, but Dyonisos gave him a run for his money (Dyonisos being bi-sexual or something of the genre)... Can't say (and don't care to look it up) if there was antagonism between the two, but this could explain Peart's meaning.

Either way, X-1 is quite straightforward in AFTK, X-2 is/was totally incomprehensible... After X-1 and the wait of the next episode, I was cruelly disappointed because the wait wasn't worth it, IMHO. It also hindered on my appreciation of the epic's music as well.

Rush lyrics started to escape me with PW... and by the times of MP, I wasn't following them at all. Some might consider that Rush was going more and more sophististicated with every new album in those years, but I couldn't follow them... and they gradually lost me

Actually Greek deities were much more complex and multi-faceted than you're suggesting. Plus their particular aspect or affiliation could change depending on the circumstances (ooo, a Rush pun! ) So Dionysus could mean many things to many people, from being the patron of wine-making to the god of frivolity and partying. Neil was correct in associating him with the "non-rational" side of the human intellect.

And I still don't see what is so terrible about those lyrics. Yeah, they're not at Bob Dylan's caliber, perhaps, but in general Rush lyrics were well above and beyond their hard rock peers (well documented in Beyond the Lighted Stage). And for every semi-clunky line to come from Geddy's mouth, there are more than enough songs like "Limelight" or "Subdivisions" to make up for it.

They're not terrible as such. X-2 is simply impenetrable (a bit like Jon Anderson's were >> but in Yes' case, we (at least I and buddies) had stopped trying to find sense in his gibberish by the time of CTTE and TFTO), where everything Rush had done until then was fairly clear in our mind, yeah, even Xanadu.

[Trane]

Traffic/Winwood were lucky to have a drummer who was a fine lyric writer in Jim Capaldi.
Talents like Peter Townshend (great innovative rock musician and songwriter who had a flair for lyrics)
are rare. Many really gifted musicians are not necessarily "word-people."

Never thought of Capaldi as a great lyricist... I'll have to look into that... either way, I don't think he was systematically the lyricist, since he'd have gotten creditss on a lot more songs

Jimi was a great lyricist, too.

OK dudes... this looks/reads like a hi-jacking of the thread!! We're suppose to be thinking of bad lyricists, not good ones.

I'm not sure that would strengthen your argument, in terms of "shutting up" people who think progressive rock is the reason "punk rock had to happen".

If I was gonna argue with someone who thinks Neil's lyrics are all "teenage poetry" or whatever, I'd be more inclined to had them something like The Pass or Subdivisions. Then I'd point out that not all Rush lyrics are written by the drummer, then hand them the lyrics to Tears and Different Strings, which I still think are the best in the Rush catalog.

Back in the nascent punk years, it made the point quite clear... We'd spend hours trying to convince that Floyd, Rush and Yes lyrics were so much more profound than punk./.. It usually worked and we made the point... Which probably irrated those not wanting to admit it.... This is probably part of the antipathy that punk fans had towards prog fans... the fact that we were superior in debating the merits of our respective music. Our eltism probably hastened our defeat (prog was on the way out)... (girls were into disco, anyway).

Of course the London Calling (not just thesong) had also good lyrics.

As for Rush lyrics in albums like Signals , I was already in uni, so I had less time to waste to decipher (it seemed much less straightforward too)... and to be honest, their music wasn't hittig the spot (started with PW), and I was moving on and into jazz-rock (Santana, Bitches Brew, etc...)

Good music + bad lyrics = the entire Trespass album, the lyrics on that make me cringe.

Come on, White Mountains and The Knife were bad lyrics to you??

They transported me into magiclands dor a decade or so. OK, maybe in terms of poetry, it's not Dylan Thomas (or even Bob Dylan), but the contents were doing it. I'd agree that the other songs' lyrics on Tresspass were not as good, though. Or at least, they escaped me back then.

[2 Sheds]

In 42 years of listening to 'prog', I've never really listened to any lyrics.

[PotatoSolution]

In 42 years of listening to 'prog', I've never really listened to any lyrics.

Unless you listen to only instrumental tracks, I don't know how that is even possible.

[ronmac]

Unless you listen to only instrumental tracks, I don't know how that is even possible.

There's a difference between hearing and listening.

[2 Sheds]

There's a difference between hearing and listening.

Couldn't have put it better myself. And obviously I've picked up phrases here and there - '"I get up, I get down", "a flower ! ". That sort of thing. I did say 'really listened'. But from memory I don't think I could recite more than 2 consecutive lines from any piece.

[PotatoSolution]

I suppose I get where you're coming from, but it seems bizarre to me to ignore a major portion of what the artist is trying to convey. It's like eating peanut M&Ms by just eating the chocolate on the outside and throwing away the peanut.

Obviously you can listen to music (or eat M&Ms) any way you like, I just can't listen to music that way.

[2 Sheds]

Unless you know German then, presumably you can't really enjoy Beethoven's Ninth ?

I was always amazed when my teenage daughter remembered every word of all the pop songs we used to play on the car tape player as a family (mainly sixties and seventies stuff). She knew lyrics I'd never heard, and could barely discern when I tried. She did have a fantastic ear for all things 'music' though and went on to study it at Oxford ( not much sixties pop or 'prog' in the syllabus) .

[syncopatico]

Good music + bad lyrics = the entire Trespass album, the lyrics on that make me cringe.

I've always liked young Peter Gabriel's vocal delivery on these lines from Stagnation:

"And will I wait for ever, beside the silent mirror
And fish for bitter minnows, amongst the weeds and slimy water"

[Plasmatopia]

Couldn't have put it better myself. And obviously I've picked up phrases here and there - '"I get up, I get down", "a flower ! ". That sort of thing. I did say 'really listened'. But from memory I don't think I could recite more than 2 consecutive lines from any piece.

That describes me as well. Even when I try to learn the words I can't remember them.

[simon moon]

In 42 years of listening to 'prog', I've never really listened to any lyrics.

That's too bad, because there are also some fine lyrics in a lot of prog.

Seems to me you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Jerjo]

I have to really tune out the lyrics to most prog. It's just one half-baked middle-brow philosophical hand job after another with little regard to logic or lyricism.

[Teal]

Good Music and Bad Lyrics?
Well, recently, I would say Montreal & The Sky Above The Rain by Marillion.
Montreal - is just h's rambling "Going down to breakfast what time is it now there?
I'll go shopping for shoes or whatever ensues"
The Sky - Sappy - "She loves him But she doesn't want him....."

LOVE the music, hate the lyrics!

[2 Sheds]

Seems to me you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Sorry but I don't understand the relevance of the metaphor. I didn't say I dismiss music just because I can't be bothered to listen to the lyrics. I love the music, including the singing. I just dismiss (as of no consequence) most of what the words are trying to convey.

[Trane]

It really makes me cringe to hear this song repeatedly used in a triumphalist, celebratory context, just using the opening few bars and therefore missing the irony completely, as the rest of that lyric is really bleak. I do really rate The Clash's work in that 1979-80 period.

When I was 16 and this stuff came out, it spoke billions to me.... irony or not...
London's Drowning
And I Live by the River...

of the course, the use of it made of it since....

[Rune Blackwings]

At the least... make a drinking game out of every time "I don't want to die" or some variant is mentioned, and your liver will be leaving your body to save itself by the 2/3 mark. And then, after the big atmospheric section, the stupid moron is still, STILL going on about how "I don't want to die." WE GET IT. SHUT THE HELL UP. And there's nothing in the lyrics that indicates a need for this level of whining, unless that evil "HISTORIAN!!!!!" is going to use his dreaded "HISTORIAN!!!!" powers on him. Oh, that's right, some guy resembles a cannibal curator, I guess. So this guy imagines he's going to be eaten, or something. Okay... I'm getting more depressed about these lyrics than I need to be. I'm done.

[Rarebird]

Most lyrics by Yes.

[flowerking]

Another wonderful ELP entry: Still You Turn Me On (someone get me a ladder?)

Although Phish isn't prog, Junta (their first) is full of great prog moments. But most of the lyrics are woeful.