Well, why write lyrics that sound good & make the listener FEEL like there are lightning bolts & thunderclaps & Gods pacing through marble halls when it's so much easier to simply write "there was this, and that & also that other thing happened" and call it a day? Neil was basically just listing some things that be thought were cool, and made it rhyme! Obviously, YMMV. No harm in that!Originally Posted by Yanks2009
What amuses me, a bit, is how during a supposedly heavy battle, with the "gods raging on high," the music is ethereal and tranquil, but when "all at once the chaos ceased" the GUITARS AND DRUMS BURST IN AND GEDDY'S RAGING BACK TO A TRIUMPHANT ENGAGEMENT IN SHRIEKVILLE!!
Transatlantic's "Suite Charlotte Pike".
Awesome tune, excruciatingly bad lyrics.
Just thought of another: Styx's "I'm OK." Snappy tune, gorgeous organ solo by Dennis DeYoung, and crushingly inane lyrics that ooze smug self-satisfaction.
Oh boy.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
In the US perhaps, but isn't it still used in the UK? Don't people still eat faggots over there?
I think fags are cigarettes in the UK. Faggot also means a bundle of sticks, I believe.
I assume you mean Cygnus X-1 Book II. There are allusions to Greek mythology, but I think the it was more that Neil had read an article in Time magazine about the human brain, and how one side of the brain takes of logic and the other side of the brain takes care of emotion and creativity.
Apollo and Dionysus are names from Greek mythology, but I think Neil may have made up most of the other stuff. I'm not an expert on mythology (most of what I know I got from watching Clash Of The Titans), but a quick poke around the internet suggests, for instance that Dionysus was the God of the grape harvest, winemaking, and nature, not the "Bringer Of Love", as Neil suggests. I suspect Neil just imported the names because he thought they were "intellectual sounding" and made up the rest.
I think most progressive rock lyrics in general tend to be "not very good". There often seems to be a rush to come up with something that sounds intricate or "literary" or, at the very least "not about sex, hotrods, etc", and the results are often a bit lop sided in my opinion.
One that I remember rubbing me the wrong was in the Flower Kings song I Am The Sun. The couplet was "I am the Danny Kaye/Of modern day", but I recall someone pointed that being Scandinavian, maybe Stolt meant it as a Hans Christian Andersen allusion (since one of Danny Kaye's more well known roles was portraying Andersen on the silver screen). With that in mind, it seems less odd than it did before.
That was also a popular theme with Ayn Rand who he was probably still into at the time- the war between logic and mysticism represented by Apollo and Dionysus.
But in the case of "The Great Deceiver" it refrences a type of meatball. Health food faggot, I'm assuming must be of the vegetarian kind.
With a name like that, I'd expect to find some bone in them.But in the case of "The Great Deceiver" it refrences a type of meatball. Health food faggot, I'm assuming must be of the vegetarian kind.
Actually Greek deities were much more complex and multi-faceted than you're suggesting. Plus their particular aspect or affiliation could change depending on the circumstances (ooo, a Rush pun!
And I still don't see what is so terrible about those lyrics. Yeah, they're not at Bob Dylan's caliber, perhaps, but in general Rush lyrics were well above and beyond their hard rock peers (well documented in Beyond the Lighted Stage). And for every semi-clunky line to come from Geddy's mouth, there are more than enough songs like "Limelight" or "Subdivisions" to make up for it.
Rush lyrics were way better in the 80s, it's true, precisely because they abandoned that Dungeons & Dragons stuff! But, as a specific example of bad lyrics & good music, Hemispheres tops my list.
The first Ethos album.
Musically it's up there with the best American prog of its day. But lyrically, it is both painful and laughable simultaneously.
Even the song titles make me cringe.
Space Brothers
Atlanteans
The Dimension Man
E'Mocean
But there are so many great, blistering instrumental sections, that I am able (for the most part) to ignore the lyrics.
And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell
Yeah, there's a Simpsons episode where Martin makes a comment, about standing up against the bullies. If all the kids stand together, "We are like a mighty faggot", and then the "bundle of sticks" definition appears on the screen, I guess so no one would complain about the use of the word.
I once heard it said that the "bundle of sticks" definition is related to the homophobic epithet. Back in the day when people were still burnt at the stake, the known homosexuals in the village (who were of course also heretics) were the ones who had the feed the wood to the fire. Hence, they were carrying faggots, and therefore they became known as faggots. But I don't know if that's actually true or not, because I heard it in a movie, and I've never been able to find confirmation if it's actually true.
Agreed.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
lots of Zep, Deep purple and Free songs.
Captain beyond self-titled album is full of cringeworthy lines as well.
I agree with all this. I guess my 15-y-o mind wasn't such a critic as some are. I also felt the music somehow carried those lyrics in a way that they wouldn't be perceived if seen as just words.
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some are cringe-worthy that's for sure
but
"we'll talk of places that we went and times that we have spent
together penniless and free"
is one of my favorite lyrics
One "g" or two....
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fagot
(I've looked this up before, but I never knew about this spelling difference somehow.)
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I never thought of it that way (perhaps because, way back when I first heard the song, I was anything but self-satisfied). I always saw it as a sort of affirmation, a wish...and they wanted everyone to feel that way. Just the opposite of something so selfish as smug self-satisfaction. But I was just an idealistic youth, not the nearly-as-idealistic much older person I am now.
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Yeah, I think that's what Palmer-James had in mind, which is why I queried about whether they still ate faggots in the UK (what did you think I meant?!). If you consider that the second line of the song, "bartered bride" might be seen as an oxymoron, and given the inspiration of the song (reportedly the commercialization of religion the band saw while on tour in Italy, hence "figurines of the Virgin Mary" refrain), it makes sense that he meant "health food faggot" to be a similar verbal contradiction.But in the case of "The Great Deceiver" it refrences a type of meatball. Health food faggot, I'm assuming must be of the vegetarian kind.
Yeah, I agree. I don't mind the 70's era lyrics, but I can see where one might look at them and say "This is exactly why people make fun of progressive rock!". And like I said, a lot of that stuff is like the literary equivalent of Neil's drumming.
And I think Neil (and probably Geddy and Alex too) must have felt similarly because as pointed out above, Neil went off in a different direction with a lot of his lyrics in the 80's and beyond. In fact, wasn't that one of the reasons why they abandoned the Sir Galwain piece that they had planned for Permanent Waves, that they decided the subject matter was too wishy washy or whatever.
This region/word has worn out it's welcome for me, in every single possible way. Is there anything they won't attach this word to?
As retired HS teacher, I recall hearing that word used by nasty, mocking adolescents
against each other, thrown at each other like verbal cherry-bombs, way way too many times.
For that reason alone, I gag at the use of the word.
Just my personal baggage, I guess.
Last edited by GuitarRanger; 09-12-2013 at 10:36 PM.
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