In-ear Monitors

[No Pride]

There's two pop/rock cover bands that I play with on a fairly consistent basis and over the past few months I've been using in-ear monitors with both of them. One of them is a wedding/corporate party band and the leader started insisting that we wear them because he wanted to reduce the onstage volume and he doesn't want the audience to hear him talking to us (calling tunes and yelling at the horn players ) through the "hotspot" monitors he used to use. He was providing us with these $100 Shure in-ears that sounded like shit, so I bought my own pair of $500 triple driver Shure SE535s and bought Sensaphonic custom molded sleeves for them, and now things sound a whole lot better. In the other band (which tours and plays mostly military related events), almost everybody has been using in-ears for years; the percussionist and I were the last holdouts, using regular monitor wedges on the stage. She's still using a wedge, but I'm using the in-ears now. Anyway, I have mixed feelings about them and I wondered if any of you musician folk use them and what your thoughts are. Here's mine:

Pros:
* I'd been using custom molded earplugs and though they claim to be frequency attenuated, they cut out a significant enough amount of highs to give me a false impression of what my guitar was really sounding like. Now those frequencies are back and not only do I have a better idea of how bright my guitar sound is, but I can hear the drummer's cymbals and high-hat clearly. I'd say my overall mix has improved significantly.

* In the wedding/corporate party band, I'm just using a Line 6 Pod HD500 preamp/multi-effect processor and I don't have to cart around an amplifier anymore. This is huge; not only am I done hauling heavy gear at my advanced age, but I can walk in through the front door of a hotel or country club, as opposed to going through the loading dock, riding freight elevators with garbage bins full of rotten food to accompany me and making my way through the treacherous obstacle courses of kitchens that us gear laden musicians are forced to go through. (In the other band, backline rental amps are provided for me; I've been using a Mesa Triple Rectifier half stack with my Line 6 M13 "virtual pedalboard.")

* In the touring band, my in-ears are wireless, as is my guitar. When I was monitoring my guitar through the amp's cabinet and the rest of the band through the wedge, I couldn't hear myself if I'd walk one foot or more to either side of the amp's cabinet. With my guitar being wireless, I was mobile, but was the point if I couldn't hear shit?! Now I can move anywhere and the sound will come with me, which is great because we're more of a concert band and our stages are usually pretty big.

* Some venues are acoustical nightmares. In the touring band, we've played in airplane hangars and gymnasiums and the sound is so boomy and muddy that it's almost unbearable. With in-ears that have custom molded sleeves, you're blocking out all of those reflections and suddenly it's more like you're playing in a studio than a cavern.

Cons:
* The in-ears are a pain in the ass to insert into your ear canals; even moreso with the custom molded sleeves. I'm a newbie and I'm still learning; I was recently tipped off that there's a lubricant specifically made for the custom molded sleeves and that makes it easier. Still, I have to give myself 5 extra minutes before going on stage to comfortably don my ear gear.

* Even though I can now hear the higher frequencies that I was missing when I was using plugs, I miss the sound of the amp cabinet. Now I'm listening to the sound of a microphone on a cabinet, which is never quite the same. In the band where I use the Pod HD with no amp, I've tweaked my sounds to taste, but the problem with that is there's no amplifier for the guitar to react with, so there's no possibility of getting controlled feedback. It's not something I use extensively, but it's nice to be able to sustain a note indefinitely when you want to... and when you don't have that option anymore, it feels like a glaring omission in your arsenal of tricks.

* Now this is the "con" that could override all of the "pros:" I think my tinnitus is getting worse. These things are supposedly designed for hearing protection, among other things and the custom molded sleeves allegedly block out 35 decibels of outside sound, but... you've got little speakers stuffed into your ear canals and I can't seem to get them down to a level where I'm not furthering my hearing damage. Maybe the problem is the monitor mixer guys that I work with. I'm turning my in-ears' volume down as low as I can, but I think it's still pretty loud. In both bands I've asked the monitor mixers to turn down my master and though they've tried to oblige, it hasn't been enough as of yet. I don't understand what the problem is and maybe I just need to emphasize how serious an issue this is to me. Or maybe I need to go back to earplugs and wedges.

So... anybody using in-ears? What do you think about 'em?

[Mikhael]

I like them, myself. MY problem is that my ear canals are two different sizes, and when I sing, they want to come out. I've been looking for some sort of behind-the-head unit to hold them in place, but with no luck yet.

[Gruno]

So... anybody using in-ears? What do you think about 'em?

I use ultimate Ears:

http://pro.ultimateears.com/en-us

The ones I got allow some outside bleed to come through. They were about $600-$700 back in 2009. Although, I did get my logo printed on each ear piece, which was an additional $100 in total -- but the band bought them for me so money was not an issue I also had the earplug version made which works great at concerts.

As far as having problems with inserting and/or removing them, I have zero problem doing so. It takes a bit of work to learn the proper technique of twisting the ear piece downward while removing; upward when inserting. I would not recommend any lubricant because as you sweat or as your ear wax gets hotter, the ear piece will most likely start to slide around. If you had your ear molds done via a doctor's office, then maybe the molds were not fabricated properly or there might have been a problem with the way they were molded to your ear canal. That has happened to artists I have worked with. I was in charge of ordering in-ears for them and for one singer, we went through 2 different molds and 4 different sets of in-ears.

Here's how mine look inserted:

[No Pride]

I like them, myself. MY problem is that my ear canals are two different sizes, and when I sing, they want to come out. I've been looking for some sort of behind-the-head unit to hold them in place, but with no luck yet.

Well, nobody has symmetrical ear canals. Do you use custom molded sleeves? I think that helps hold them in place.

As far as having problems with inserting and/or removing them, I have zero problem doing so. It takes a bit of work to learn the proper technique of twisting the ear piece downward while removing; upward when inserting. I would not recommend any lubricant because as you sweat or as your ear wax gets hotter, the ear piece will most likely start to slide around. If you had your ear molds done via a doctor's office, then maybe the molds were not fabricated properly or there might have been a problem with the way they were molded to your ear canal. That has happened to artists I have worked with. I was in charge of ordering in-ears for them and for one singer, we went through 2 different molds and 4 different sets of in-ears.

The lubricant I use is made specifically for the molded sleeves and they claim to actually tighten the seal.
http://store.sensaphonics.com/Produc...ferm+lubricant

Anyway, they don't move around at all. And once I get them in the canal, I can tell they fit alright. I think I just need more experience with putting them in.

[Yodelgoat]

I have a set of the Sure $100 that I use in my studio for playing drums to a click. Funny, they sound OK to me which tells me I'm in the wrong ballpark talking about this. Of course, I don't have to listen with them for 4 hours a night, so I really cant justify spending big bucks on something I want to use as little as possible. I don't use headphones much in the studio, but if I were playing live, I would definitely use them instead of the old wedges and sidefills. You may be right about tinnitus though. Sound pressure levels seem to be higher with a sealed off ear bud. After say a hour of recording, I have take a break and I notice that although I keep the volume down, ear fatigue is a problem.

Ive always hated playing on a loud stage. Especially when I hate the music I'm playing. The ear buds would allow you to limit what you are hearing - In my case, it would be trying to escape the wanking of an obnoxious guitarist, and the screeching/twanging of a Diva country singer (we seem to have a lot of both of those here in Tejas)

[No Pride]

I have a set of the Sure $100 that I use in my studio for playing drums to a click. Funny, they sound OK to me which tells me I'm in the wrong ballpark talking about this. Of course, I don't have to listen with them for 4 hours a night, so I really cant justify spending big bucks on something I want to use as little as possible. I don't use headphones much in the studio, but if I were playing live, I would definitely use them instead of the old wedges and sidefills. You may be right about tinnitus though. Sound pressure levels seem to be higher with a sealed off ear bud. After say a hour of recording, I have take a break and I notice that although I keep the volume down, ear fatigue is a problem.

Well thanks, Yodelgoat, I'm glad I'm not the only one who can see how they might be more of a problem than a solution to hearing damage.

In the wedding/corporate party band, everybody else is fine with the $100 Shures, but being the anal guitar player, I couldn't stomach the tones my axe was getting through them and had to upgrade.

The touring band is louder since we're playing concerts and since it's led by a celebrity who people worship, nobody's telling us to turn down. Also, we play non-stop 2 hour and 15 minute shows. Tinnitus comes from the cumulative result of the amount of decibels you're exposed to and the amount of time you're exposed to them... and well, my ears aren't happy.

[Gruno]

No Pride, the artists I work with do not have problems with their in-ears like you seem to be having. Maybe it's the level they are at and the equipment they can afford. I don't know, actually. I just know that none have suffered from ringing or tinnitus from what we have discussed with their in-ears. In fact, they love their in-ear monitors and would use no other brand.

Is it possible the ones you spent $500 are the problem?

[Yodelgoat]

nobody's telling us to turn down. Also, we play non-stop 2 hour and 15 minute shows. Tinnitus comes from the cumulative result of the amount of decibels you're exposed to and the amount of time you're exposed to them... and well, my ears aren't happy.

It may also be the EQ of your send. Since you like to hear your guitar, you may have the 1k to 1.3k up a bit. (Sorry, You probably already know this) I don't have an individual EQ for my buds, so I'm stuck with what the board sends me. Perhaps its time for me to acquire a decent headphone amp setup.

I certainly hope that $500 is enough to spend to get the sound you like without causing tinnitus.

[Gruno]

I certainly hope that $500 is enough to spend to get the sound you like without causing tinnitus.

Check the links I put up in this thread

[Kim Olesen]

Maybe the problem is the monitor mixer guys that I work with.

So... anybody using in-ears? What do you think about 'em?

Which is why i always mix the crucial stuff myself via a 1 unit rackmixer. I have my guitar signal and my vocal signal in a split. So i can mix the guitar signal and the vocal signal myself. I don't want to hand the levels of the stuff i play myself over to any sound/monitor guy. They NEVER get it quite right no matter how skilled. Then i get a mix of the rest of the band from the sound guy. So i have three channels. My guitar, my vocals, and a feed from the sound guy. If i want any of those things to change levels i can do it myself without the soundguy getting involved (besides making a decent mix of the rest of the band).

[Grimjack]

Be sure that the sleeves are sitting properly on the 535s. I had a problem with my Sensaphonics and Shure 530s where if the earpieces weren't ALL the way in the volume was low or certain frequencies were absent.

[No Pride]

No Pride, the artists I work with do not have problems with their in-ears like you seem to be having. Maybe it's the level they are at and the equipment they can afford. I don't know, actually. I just know that none have suffered from ringing or tinnitus from what we have discussed with their in-ears. In fact, they love their in-ear monitors and would use no other brand.

Is it possible the ones you spent $500 are the problem?

I don't know; some other band members are using the same ones I am and love them now, but admitted that it took them a couple of months to get used to them. Then again, I probably came into this with more advanced tinnitus than anybody else. I've had it for over 25 years.

It may also be the EQ of your send. Since you like to hear your guitar, you may have the 1k to 1.3k up a bit. (Sorry, You probably already know this) I don't have an individual EQ for my buds, so I'm stuck with what the board sends me. Perhaps its time for me to acquire a decent headphone amp setup.

I have no control over the EQ either, but the Monitor mixer is running it flat for me, which is what I wanted. I'm fine with the sound I'm getting for the most part.

I don't want to hand the levels of the stuff i play myself over to any sound/monitor guy. They NEVER get it quite right no matter how skilled. Then i get a mix of the rest of the band from the sound guy. So i have three channels. My guitar, my vocals, and a feed from the sound guy. If i want any of those things to change levels i can do it myself without the soundguy getting involved (besides making a decent mix of the rest of the band).

I don't have that luxury; I'm just using a backlined transmitter and the monitor mixer works with us to give us each what we need. There's 11 of us, which might explain why we have three hour soundchecks. It'd be great to have my own personal mixing gear, but I can't afford it and nobody's going to by it for me. Besides, my hands are constantly on my guitar for our 2+ hour shows.

Be sure that the sleeves are sitting properly on the 535s. I had a problem with my Sensaphonics and Shure 530s where if the earpieces weren't ALL the way in the volume was low or certain frequencies were absent.

I don't have a problem with that, although I notice that if I tilt my head back, I have more bass frequencies, but I wonder if that's just the in-ears resonating on my ear canals.

Anyway, thanks so much for offering help guys, I do appreciate it!

[Kim Olesen]

I don't know; some other band members are using the same ones I am and love them now, but admitted that it took them a couple of months to get used to them. Then again, I probably came into this with more advanced tinnitus than anybody else. I've had it for over 25 years.


I have no control over the EQ either, but the Monitor mixer is running it flat for me, which is what I wanted. I'm fine with the sound I'm getting for the most part.


I don't have that luxury; I'm just using a backlined transmitter and the monitor mixer works with us to give us each what we need. There's 11 of us, which might explain why we have three hour soundchecks. It'd be great to have my own personal mixing gear, but I can't afford it and nobody's going to by it for me. Besides, my hands are constantly on my guitar for our 2+ hour shows.


I don't have a problem with that, although I notice that if I tilt my head back, I have more bass frequencies, but I wonder if that's just the in-ears resonating on my ear canals.

Anyway, thanks so much for offering help guys, I do appreciate it!

You can't afford a Behringer RX1602? Seriously then you are not particularly interested in protecting your ears. It's cheap, sounds fine for inear monitoring, and weighing up the price of it against your grievances makes it a no-brainer.

[No Pride]

You can't afford a Behringer RX1602? Seriously then you are not particularly interested in protecting your ears.

I just checked it out on Musician's Friends' website. Looks cool and the price is right, but it'd be a hassle to cart around with me on airplanes. In addition to my guitar and carry-on bag, I bring a Line 6 M13 "virtual pedalboard" and between that and my clothes and toiletries, my suitcase is barely under the FTA 50 pound limit. Bringing additional luggage would not be manageable for me on these trips.

I appreciate your help, but I don't see how you came to the conclusion that by not bringing a rackmount mixer, I'm "not particularly interested in protecting (my) ears." I don't have a problem with my mix on stage; it's fine.

[rapidfirerob]

The two guitarists in my band use them and love them. I don't know what brand they are, not using them myself.
I'm still in custom made ear plug land. They have microphone capability so they can hear the rest of the band while playing, which has helped one of the guitarist keep his volume down.
I sent your post to the guitarists Ernie. Maybe they have ideas as well.

[rapidfirerob]

One of the guitarist's response: They work OK for me, although I think I need to get the dual driver type, but the guy is right - what I now hear is the cab through the mic, not quite the same. I like to get some leakage around the plugs from my amp's cab as well to balance it out. I found that extended wear of the IEMs actually starts to hurt a bit, whereas my earplugs generally do not.

I found my preferred setup is to run the amp behind me, and mic'd it and run the signal to the K10 in front of me (or to the side depending on the stage) and wear my earplugs, which cut out some high end, then I get a reasonable simulacrum of my actual sound.

BTW the AUDIENCE is also hearing the mic'd cab from the PA mains... ya can't win...

[Mikhael]

I found my preferred setup is to run the amp behind me, and mic'd it and run the signal to the K10 in front of me (or to the side depending on the stage) and wear my earplugs, which cut out some high end, then I get a reasonable simulacrum of my actual sound.

BTW the AUDIENCE is also hearing the mic'd cab from the PA mains... ya can't win...

Well, my view is that I *want* to know what the audience is hearing. That's what your tone/sound is, to them. I actually prefer hearing that, since I don't want to think everything sounds great, only to find out I had the Howe/Relayer-ice-pick-in-the-ear tone out front... (obviously not my favourite tone)

[No Pride]

I sent your post to the guitarists Ernie. Maybe they have ideas as well.

Thanks, Rob!

One of the guitarist's response: They work OK for me, although I think I need to get the dual driver type, but the guy is right - what I now hear is the cab through the mic, not quite the same. I like to get some leakage around the plugs from my amp's cab as well to balance it out. I found that extended wear of the IEMs actually starts to hurt a bit, whereas my earplugs generally do not.

I found my preferred setup is to run the amp behind me, and mic'd it and run the signal to the K10 in front of me (or to the side depending on the stage) and wear my earplugs, which cut out some high end, then I get a reasonable simulacrum of my actual sound.

BTW the AUDIENCE is also hearing the mic'd cab from the PA mains... ya can't win...

Was the part in bold, you or your guitar player, Rob? Is a "K10" a monitor wedge? I used to use my custom molded earplugs and monitor my guitar through the amp's cabinet and the rest of the band through the wedge. I may go back to doing it that way, although there's some things I like about the in-ears better (like hearing the higher frequencies). Our drummer went from the in-ear route back to using ear plugs and a monitor wedge and I'm starting to understand why. Either way has it's pros and cons; it becomes a matter of personal preference. Oh, and this touring band I'm in plays two hour and 20 minute shows and they do start to hurt a little after a while.

Well, my view is that I *want* to know what the audience is hearing. That's what your tone/sound is, to them. I actually prefer hearing that, since I don't want to think everything sounds great, only to find out I had the Howe/Relayer-ice-pick-in-the-ear tone out front... (obviously not my favourite tone)

Well, with a monitor mixer and a front of house mixer, I'm not actually hearing what the audience is hearing; I don't know what kind of EQing the front of house guy is doing, only what I'm getting from the monitor mixer. On our 4 gig tour last week, I asked him if he was putting any EQ on what he was sending me. He said he was using a high-pass filter, which if I understand correctly cuts out some of the lower end. I asked him to kindly disable that and my guitar sound in my ears did improve noticeably. But I don't know what's going on in the front of the house. I've heard a lot of people compliment the FOH guy on his mix, so I'm just going to have to trust that he's making me sound good.

[Classic Progressive]

Going back to the first post, its funny but I have a pair of $90 Shure Buds... Finally got rid of the TWO floor monitors... I plug into our soundtech's System with them. Our soundtech is a genius, in many things music.... Those buds sounded like crap when I first heard them but they did the job, then he got back to the monitor mixes and EQ.... wow, those little cheap Buds are just fine...! He has me dialed in great now... My Acoustic guitar is clean and clear when I use it on some songs. (right earbud) and my voice is a nice volume that does not seem to burn me out or make my ears hurt later in the evening..(left Earbud). personally, I like the fact that without the molded expensive sound isolation I get just enough bleed through from the show in the cheaper buds to give me just what I need to hear to know where I am... I find this is ideal for me and far better than having the band mix forced into my ear canal. I get all the guitar sounds from the amps we use on stage, I am front center and I can hear them behind me pretty well the drums too. I have just a small amount of the keyboard running in my mix (right ear)
Everyone is different... We each have our own level of Head Voice and or our own level of damage through the years so don't think that running out to buy the $800 ear buds is the only way to go... I have two pair of the cheap Shure Buds now in case one set burns out at a show.. I do not hear the harmony voices.... and that works for me, I do not get thrown off if anyone makes a mistake and I can concentrate on my own vocals as this is My Job....

[Yodelgoat]

I went out and bought a new Behrenger headphone amp (rack mountable) - its made a huge difference, because I can now adjust bass and treble for each headphone. Its been a great improvement. it also allows me to input and mix a separate 1/4 inch input for each headphone. so if I want to hear something no one else wants to hear, this allows that - I can see this as quite a useful enhancement, because if you really need to hear one part, this allows you to mix it into your own mix. THis would work very affective in a live situation, where each user can separately mix in their own instrument, and it would only affect the individual headhone mix. I dont use this live, so I may find another use for it, but as it stands, it makes the headphone amp very flexible. Also, its nice and quiet.

A very worthwhile purchase for my studio. I paid about 40 bucks for it used. I'm a little concerned how cheap outboard gear like this has become - it seems like it is in some kind of death spiral, where people are giving this stuff away. It could mean that people just dont see a need for these really cool features. We may not see them at all in another 5 years