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Thread: New Wave of Progressive Metal

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    Jeez - I've heard people on PE saying that King Crimson's Red is seriously heavy and should be classified as metal. I repeat - music needs to be HEAVY to be classified as metal.
    What's awesome about things like Red or indeed "Fracture" to me, is that it succeeds in being harsh and violent and menacing WITHOUT actually drifting into metal territory. The same could be said of SO much 60s/70s progressive-and-beyond rock; even certain "fusiony" progressive acts like Soft Machine or Area possessed that quality of incendiary chaos-through-control about them, and the most menacing progressive group of all time - MAGMA - were just that because their instrumental ecstasy was one of both control, chaos and brutality - yet *never* metal.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  2. #27
    Member Just Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    What's awesome about things like Red or indeed "Fracture" to me, is that it succeeds in being harsh and violent and menacing WITHOUT actually drifting into metal territory. The same could be said of SO much 60s/70s progressive-and-beyond rock; even certain "fusiony" progressive acts like Soft Machine or Area possessed that quality of incendiary chaos-through-control about them, and the most menacing progressive group of all time - MAGMA - were just that because their instrumental ecstasy was one of both control, chaos and brutality - yet *never* metal.
    I really enjoy music like that, when it is done well. PT's In Absentia is a great case in point. Just the right amount of heaviness to qualify as stellar Hard Rock, but not Metal. I struggle with Ayreon and similar acts that shoot for the same thing but, IMHO come up short. The music ends up sounding more like watered-down Metal rather than amped up Rock.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    I really enjoy music like that, when it is done well. PT's In Absentia is a great case in point. Just the right amount of heaviness to qualify as stellar Hard Rock, but not Metal. I struggle with Ayreon and similar acts that shoot for the same thing but, IMHO come up short. The music ends up sounding more like watered-down Metal rather than amped up Rock.
    I tend to agree, and In Absentia was arguably my last kiss with PT (although I rather like some of SW's solo material). Discipline actually succeed even better, and they have loads of soaring guitars - still it never gets "metallic" as such. Even an outright violent act like SGM never really receeded to "metal" in my ears; they were avant-progressive 'art-core' - but not really metal. IMHO.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #29
    Jon Neudorf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    I really enjoy music like that, when it is done well. PT's In Absentia is a great case in point. Just the right amount of heaviness to qualify as stellar Hard Rock, but not Metal. I struggle with Ayreon and similar acts that shoot for the same thing but, IMHO come up short. The music ends up sounding more like watered-down Metal rather than amped up Rock.
    To one person it's watered down, to another it's pure gold. That's the beautiful thing about music. FWIW I don't cosider Ayreon metal although he has ventured into the territory on various albums, ie Universal Migrator.

    Regards,
    Jon

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    What's awesome about things like Red or indeed "Fracture" to me, is that it succeeds in being harsh and violent and menacing WITHOUT actually drifting into metal territory. The same could be said of SO much 60s/70s progressive-and-beyond rock; even certain "fusiony" progressive acts like Soft Machine or Area possessed that quality of incendiary chaos-through-control about them, and the most menacing progressive group of all time - MAGMA - were just that because their instrumental ecstasy was one of both control, chaos and brutality - yet *never* metal.
    Magma is an excellent example...heavy as all hell but never even close to metal territory.

    One that was always interesting for me was Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. Heavy? Um, yeah. Dark? Maybe just a teeny weeny bit. Scary growled vocals? You know it, girlfriend! But somehow the final mix of all the ingredients never projected that certain 'metal' aura for me. More like King Crimson trying to get to 2nd base with Henry Cow. Perhaps that's just me.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    One that was always interesting for me was Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. Heavy? Um, yeah. Dark? Maybe just a teeny weeny bit. Scary growled vocals? You know it, girlfriend! But somehow the final mix of all the ingredients never projected that certain 'metal' aura for me. More like King Crimson trying to get to 2nd base with Henry Cow. Perhaps that's just me.
    Like I wrote about the case of SGM myself (above) - this is my very own opinion exactly. They were an uttermost intriguing band with a wholly unique identity - IMO.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Like I wrote about the case of SGM myself (above) - this is my very own opinion exactly. They were an uttermost intriguing band with a wholly unique identity - IMO.
    LOL sorry...apparently didn't go back and read everything before posting. But yeah, they were/are in a class all their own. And I love them to bits for it.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  8. #33
    Traversing The Dream 100423's Avatar
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    SGM are in my top 5 favorite bands. They were incomparable live and I'm very glad I got to see them several times.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 100423 View Post
    SGM are in my top 5 favorite bands. They were incomparable live and I'm very glad I got to see them several times.
    Same here. While Metal claims SGM, I personally feel they had many Metal moments, but were clearly operating in, and touting, a boundary-less environment.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  10. #35
    Isn't it ironic that a lot of people say nowdays that prog metal is dead and nothing interesting happens in it. The last few years I have read these kinds of opinions pretty often.
    I think that of the relatively new bands (who play more traditional, not Experimental metal) Haken is the best.
    I also liked the instrumental prog metal album from Hexatonica which they released last year.
    I can't say that the last couple of years there have been a lot of prog metal albums which I really like, I would like there to be more. And it would be great if more new bands put out something challenging like Haken did.
    I think that it is great if somebody can find a lot of records to like. For myself I can only repeat that I would like to hear more metal albums of the styles I like. On the other hand, you can always listen to those Shadow Gallery, Threshold, Pagan's Mind or Ivanhoe albums which you like

  11. #36
    I think it's no coincidence that Haken and To-Mera share a couple of members.
    Progtopia is a podcast devoted to interviewing progressive rock, metal, and electronic artists from the past and present, featuring their songs and exclusive interviews. Artists interviewed on the show have included Steve Hackett, Sound of Contact, Larry Fast, Circus Maximus, Anubis Gate, Spock's Beard, and many more. http://progtopia.podomatic.com See you in a land called Progtopia!

  12. #37
    Member Just Eric's Avatar
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    selmer said:
    Isn't it ironic that a lot of people say nowdays that prog metal is dead and nothing interesting happens in it. The last few years I have read these kinds of opinions pretty often.
    My assumption is that in those statements Prog Metal = DT Style Prog Metal and if that is the case then yes, that style of Prog Metal is dead. And the reason is that Prog Metal has moved leaps and bounds beyond what DT brought.

    Jeff Wagner's book, Mean Deviation: Four Decades of Progressive Metal has a chapter devoted to the DT/Prog Metal phenomenon that sums this up adequately.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    My assumption is that in those statements Prog Metal = DT Style Prog Metal and if that is the case then yes, that style of Prog Metal is dead. And the reason is that Prog Metal has moved leaps and bounds beyond what DT brought.
    I tend to agree, but then again I could never stand stuff like DT, Shadow Gallery et al. The closest I got to really liking this sort of thing was with South American acts like Entrance and Matraz, who were both quite excellent at times.

    But yes, the onslaught of avant-tech-metal and the post-Meshuggah pretty much took away most of what was initially "attractive" about the first wave of prog metal, and there's little to match Behold... The Arctopus or Normal Love or PsyOpus or Car Bomb - be it "experimental" or not.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #39
    Member Just Eric's Avatar
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    Scrotum Scissor (who wins best screen name) said:But yes, the onslaught of avant-tech-metal and the post-Meshuggah pretty much took away most of what was initially "attractive" about the first wave of prog metal, and there's little to match Behold... The Arctopus or Normal Love or PsyOpus or Car Bomb - be it "experimental" or not.
    Absolutely right and I'd be curious to see the listener/fan trends as the genre migrated from DT and ilk to BT...A, Psyopus and Car Bomb and their ilk. It'd be a safe bet that many of the traditional Prog fans who went along for the ride with DT got off the bus while many Extreme Metal fans jumped on.

    I am one of the Prog fans who stayed on the bus and even asked the driver to find the darkest, scariest routes. You can tell us from the Metalheads as in our shuffle we will have Kansas next to Cattle Decapitation, while the Metalheads will have Slayer next to Ephel Duath.
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  15. #40
    I guess I'm in the "stayed on the bus" camp as well....either that or I slept through my stop.

    Gaza is still kind of my benchmark for "how in the hell did anyone even pull that shiat off?!?!" sick/epic/awesome. But Psyopus is another new one on me, so I just ordered their first from Amazon. Car Bomb I checked out within the last few months, very cool stuff. The Arctopus occupies many lovely spots within my collection
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  16. #41
    Traversing The Dream 100423's Avatar
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    I thought I might mention this band as well as I think some here might like them if they are not familiar:

    A Forest Of Stars


  17. #42
    Member davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Eric View Post
    uneXpect
    Diablo Swing Orchestra
    Stolen Babies
    Made out of Babies
    Devin Townsend
    Fantomas
    Russian Circles
    .
    I like some Devin Townsend, though not everything. He has so many projects I can't keep track of, but generally speaking, he's one act my son and I can agree on.
    I went through a Russian Circles phase - even bought a t-shirt - but didn't hear anything that kept me hanging around.
    Made Out of Babies (I love Julie Christmas' voice. I bought The Bad Wife) broke up last year. I have 2 of their CDs.
    The others I dig.

  18. #43
    Member Just Eric's Avatar
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    davis said:
    Made Out of Babies (I love Julie Christmas' voice. I bought The Bad Wife) broke up last year. I have 2 of their CDs.
    The others I dig.
    Oh, you must try some Madder Mortem if you liked Made Out of Babies.

    Forest of Stars are great! I have their first and their latest, and while they are a little more Black Metal than I typically enjoy, the quirkiness is there and that keeps me coming back. To get even more Ambient Black Metal try Alcest and Yoga (Purveyors of the scariest album ever made!! Megafuna).
    Duncan's going to make a Horns Emoticon!!!

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by selmer View Post
    On the other hand, you can always listen to those Shadow Gallery, Threshold, Pagan's Mind or Ivanhoe albums which you like
    Don't care for the others but can't enough of Pagan's Mind. I don't know what they're classified as since they're heavy but without distorted guitars, and have a lot of keyboards.
    You say Mega Ultra Deluxe Special Limited Edition Extended Autographed 5-LP, 3-CD, 4-DVD, 2-BlueRay, 4-Cassette, five 8-Track, MP4 Download plus Demos, Outtakes, Booklet, T-Shirt and Guitar Pick Gold-Leafed Box Set Version like it's a bad thing...

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Dreamer View Post
    Don't care for the others but can't enough of Pagan's Mind. I don't know what they're classified as since they're heavy but without distorted guitars, and have a lot of keyboards.
    I can't say that I absolutely love Shadow Gallery. But the vocal harmonies on their last album were so well done. There are bands where I like vocals but no so much the instrumental parts, one such is Anubis Gate. Also the last Threshold did nothing much for me, but their previous singer Mac had a unique voice material which I liked. I can't say that any of the Threshold records are what I would call best of all time/desert island CD's, but for their niche they work all right. There should me music like that.
    Pagan's Mind is a different animal. Some of the musicians have studied music, some not. I read an interview with their guitar player where he said that with this they have interesting balance in the band. From what I get, they sometimes go from more straightforward sound to real jamming. I think that this jamming factor was more apparent on their second and third albums which have some really good instrumental stuff. They are something like progressive power metal and the keys are very tasty and have a lot of space. This is what I have been expecting from Dream Theater to give Rudess - some space, but they rarely do that.

  21. #46
    Last Chance To Reason - Temp Files

    From the album Level 2

    Last edited by Peanut Buddha; 08-22-2013 at 08:44 AM.

  22. #47
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progtopia View Post
    The prog metal genre is so exciting right now.
    Wow, I've largely lost interest in prog metal over the last few years. I've heard or heard most of the bands you mention, but I'm just a little over the whole prog metal sound, at least as far as discoverin new stuff. For now, anyway.

    I think it was the magazine Acid Dragon where they were calling progressive metal "Pretal," which I thought was pretty funny.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Magma is an excellent example...heavy as all hell but never even close to metal territory.

    One that was always interesting for me was Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. Heavy? Um, yeah. Dark? Maybe just a teeny weeny bit. Scary growled vocals? You know it, girlfriend! But somehow the final mix of all the ingredients never projected that certain 'metal' aura for me. More like King Crimson trying to get to 2nd base with Henry Cow. Perhaps that's just me.
    Well, I guess we all hear things differently. I could never get into SGM because they were too death metal for my tastes.

    We agree on Magma, though...then again, “metal” means guitars, always an instrument in short supply among their instrumentation.

    -------------
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  24. #49
    Traversing The Dream 100423's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Well, I guess we all hear things differently. I could never get into SGM because they were too death metal for my tastes.

    We agree on Magma, though...then again, “metal” means guitars, always an instrument in short supply among their instrumentation.
    I always thought SGM were channeling Magma with the vocals on this tune:



    Sorry, now back to Pretal.

  25. #50
    Member mnprogger's Avatar
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    Subterranean Masquerade and Sculptured probably deserve mention. It's worth noting, while both are sideprojects and not all that active, both have albums likely coming in 2014.

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