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Thread: Goblin - What do I need?

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Well, at least this movie gives a new understanding to the "phenomena" of actors not being able to inhale - I'm thinking specifically of the roommate of Jennifer Connolly's character. Donald Pleasence is great fun as always, though. In a sense I thought Argento's stad at the supernatural (with Inferno especially) was going somewhere, so that when he returned to the giallo genre with Tenebre things were already heading downhill. I guess Phenomena was his attempt at merging the two.
    I think that sometimes the movies have bad dubbing and it may seem that the actors are not doing their jobs properly, but it's true that there are flicks where the acting leaves a lot to be desired.
    Speaking about Pleasence, I read recently some opinions that at this period he was basically collecting pay cheques for the Halloween sequels. To be honest, during the 70's and 80's he did a lot of mediocre movies, not everything was The Great Escape or THX 1138. That's a shame - he was a wonderful actor.
    About Argento - I think that some of his movies lack a bit story wise. It's more style than substance. Some people don't like it. Deep Red could be his best in terms of a good overall movie, plus a great chemistry between the leads.
    Btw, Inferno has a soundtrack by Keith Emerson, a good one, but I like his music on Stallone flick "Nighthawks" better. He did those back to back. Both good movies. How can you go wrong with a unique looking Stallone and Rutger Hauer in his prime?

  2. #27
    Profondo Giallo Crystal Plumage's Avatar
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    Recently watched Phenomena in Italian and it plays better that way. Pity you lose both Connolly and Pleasence voices though. At least I have an other DVD for that
    HuGo
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Reach View Post
    Also Goblin related-- as many know, one of the best fusion albums from Italy-- Etna.
    I have this CD for sale or trade if anyone is interested.

  4. #29
    For the OP, the classic stuff is probably Profondo Rosso, Suspiria and Roller. All are excellent (although PR is a mix of Goblin and another composer).

    For the general Goblin talk...I have to say that Non Ho Sonno (the 90's reunion soundtrack for Argento) is pretty good stuff. Maybe not QUITE on par with the classic stuff, but better than it could've been.

    For those that like a little extra crunch, the Daemonia 'Dario Argento Tribute' collects most all the classic Goblin tunes together and gives them a 90's-style prog metal coating.
    If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
    https://battema.bandcamp.com/

    Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Plumage View Post
    Recently watched Phenomena in Italian and it plays better that way. Pity you lose both Connolly and Pleasence voices though. At least I have an other DVD for that
    There was an eurocrime movie from the beginning of 70's with Frederic Stafford (the actor who was in Hitchcock's Topaz) and the dubbing in that one was...ehm, I don't even know how to describe it. The ironic thing is that the supporting actors had mostly good dubbing but the main star had arguably the worst. No logic at all.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by selmer View Post
    I think that sometimes the movies have bad dubbing and it may seem that the actors are not doing their jobs properly, but it's true that there are flicks where the acting leaves a lot to be desired.
    Speaking about Pleasence, I read recently some opinions that at this period he was basically collecting pay cheques for the Halloween sequels. To be honest, during the 70's and 80's he did a lot of mediocre movies, not everything was The Great Escape or THX 1138. That's a shame - he was a wonderful actor.
    About Argento - I think that some of his movies lack a bit story wise. It's more style than substance. Some people don't like it. Deep Red could be his best in terms of a good overall movie [...] Btw, Inferno has a soundtrack by Keith Emerson, a good one [...] Rutger Hauer in his prime?
    Pleasence is priceless in flicks like Carpenter's Escape from NY and as Himmler in The Eagle Has Landed. As for Argento's "stylish" atonement, the whole giallo genre was essentially formalist in that the aesthetic was at the core of both atmosphere and narrative. For instance, the constant surprise endings, the use of red herrings etc. - these were standard traits, ironically considering their intended effect. I think Profondo, Suspiria and Inferno are his most successful movies myself.

    As for Rutger... Either you love him or you seriously don't. And I, for one, most certainly do - even in Fatherland and stuff like that. Like Pleasence, his acting style and sheer presence is completely one-of-a-kind.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by selmer View Post
    I think that sometimes the movies have bad dubbing and it may seem that the actors are not doing their jobs properly, but it's true that there are flicks where the acting leaves a lot to be desired.
    Speaking about Pleasence, I read recently some opinions that at this period he was basically collecting pay cheques for the Halloween sequels. To be honest, during the 70's and 80's he did a lot of mediocre movies, not everything was The Great Escape or THX 1138. That's a shame - he was a wonderful actor.
    About Argento - I think that some of his movies lack a bit story wise. It's more style than substance. Some people don't like it. Deep Red could be his best in terms of a good overall movie, plus a great chemistry between the leads.
    Btw, Inferno has a soundtrack by Keith Emerson, a good one, but I like his music on Stallone flick "Nighthawks" better. He did those back to back. Both good movies. How can you go wrong with a unique looking Stallone and Rutger Hauer in his prime?
    I think Blind Furry and Buffy The Vampire Slayer are Rutger Hauer in his prime.

  8. #33
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Blade Runner
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Blade Runner
    I've never seen that movie. I try to stay away from movies with that crazy Sean Young in them.

  10. #35
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    It's brilliant
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    It's brilliant
    And Sean Young is actually the fourth best thing in that film, after the story itself, Rutger and the effects tableau. Young was perfect for her role in this.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Pleasence is priceless in flicks like Carpenter's Escape from NY and as Himmler in The Eagle Has Landed. As for Argento's "stylish" atonement, the whole giallo genre was essentially formalist in that the aesthetic was at the core of both atmosphere and narrative. For instance, the constant surprise endings, the use of red herrings etc. - these were standard traits, ironically considering their intended effect. I think Profondo, Suspiria and Inferno are his most successful movies myself.

    As for Rutger... Either you love him or you seriously don't. And I, for one, most certainly do - even in Fatherland and stuff like that. Like Pleasence, his acting style and sheer presence is completely one-of-a-kind.
    The Eagle Has Landed is shown on TV from time to time, but I've never seen it all. Has some good actors in it though. Escape From New York is an absolute gem, one of those great movies that Carpenter made in that stint. After The Thing he made some mediocre stuff, although They Live and Prince Of Darkness are good movies for what they are.
    Fatherland - great movie. Hauer himself likes it.
    Speaking about Argento and giallo in general - I think that Dario was the best in it (I say "was" because apparently he hasn't made a good movie in a while), Fulci had some style but some of the violence was over the top. I haven't seen much of Bava and the others. I like Suspiria for the cinematography and atmosphere, not so much the story - I mean, the story about the antagonists is good, but the school setting is so so. Deep Red is great and Inferno as well. Also The Girl With The Cystal Plumage and The Cat O'Nine Tails are well made movies.
    I agree that Pleasence and Hauer have huge screen presence, they have charisma. Like Lee Marvin or Robert Shaw had.

  13. #38
    Those who haven't seen Blade Runner - see it. I really recommend it. The visuals are GREAT and that soundtrack by Vangelis - WOW!!!! The visuals and the soundtrack are the elements that hugely contribute to the movies success. It also has Harisson Ford, Hauer, Brion James, James Hong, M. Emmet Walsh - all interesting actors. One of the best Ridley Scott movies along with Alien, and story wise so much better than Prometheus.

    It's interesting that some don't like Sean Young. She was in some good movies - Blade Runner, Wall Street and No Way Out come to mind - all at the very least decent.

    And Rutger Hauer in his prime had some really good movies - Nighthawks, Blade Runner, Hitcher, Blind Fury, Split Second, Fatherland - some more serious work, some just pure fun.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I think Profondo, Suspiria and Inferno are his most successful movies myself.
    I’d come close to agreeing, but I found Inferno to be an incomprehensible mess, with some embarrassingly cheesy moments (like the bit where the woman is “attacked” by cats that are clearly flung at her by stagehands just out of camera range). There’s a little of that in Suspiria too, but rather less so. It’s clearly an exercise in style over substance, but my word, what style! He was clearly becoming more interested in esoteric, supernatural-based stories, with PR his last “conventional” giallo film. I liked Phenomena, where I thought the cheesiness worked for the storyline, by that point I felt that Argento embraced the absurdity and just ran with it. Spoiler in gray text: the scene with the knife-wielding chimp? How can you not laugh at that?

    Still have yet to see any of his very early films (I have seen a little of Four Flies on Grey Velvet), but I do like Ennio Morricone’s soundtracks to those films. He was, of course, one of the greats, but he sure scored lots of crappy films. I recently watched Windows with Elizabeth Ashley and Talia Shire; what a piece of shit that was! Gordon Willis proved himself in his lone film as director, but as much as they tried to polish this turd to a high gloss, there’s only so much you can do with one of the worst scripts in movie history!

    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    I've never seen that movie. I try to stay away from movies with that crazy Sean Young in them.
    You should at least see Love Crimes, one of those “so bad it’s hilarious” films (see also: Scissors starring Sharon Stone, from around the same time).

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by selmer View Post
    I think that Dario was the best in it (I say "was" because apparently he hasn't made a good movie in a while), Fulci had some style but some of the violence was over the top. I haven't seen much of Bava and the others. I like Suspiria for the cinematography and atmosphere, not so much the story - I mean, the story about the antagonists is good, but the school setting is so so. Deep Red is great and Inferno as well. Also The Girl With The Cystal Plumage and The Cat O'Nine Tails are well made movies.
    The tough thing about Bava is that he doesn't have that "one" film that epitomizes his work the way Suspiria does for Argento. My favorite Bava movie (and I've seen about 15) is probably Cani Arrabbiati (aka Rabid Dogs, Kidnapped), but it's very unlike the ones he's more known for (Black Sunday, Bay of Blood), neither of which I liked much.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    I’d come close to agreeing, but I found Inferno to be an incomprehensible mess, with some embarrassingly cheesy moments (like the bit where the woman is “attacked” by cats that are clearly flung at her by stagehands just out of camera range). There’s a little of that in Suspiria too, but rather less so. It’s clearly an exercise in style over substance, but my word, what style! He was clearly becoming more interested in esoteric, supernatural-based stories, with PR his last “conventional” giallo film. I liked Phenomena, where I thought the cheesiness worked for the storyline, by that point I felt that Argento embraced the absurdity and just ran with it. Spoiler in gray text: the scene with the knife-wielding chimp? How can you not laugh at that?

    Still have yet to see any of his very early films (I have seen a little of Four Flies on Grey Velvet), but I do like Ennio Morricone’s soundtracks to those films. He was, of course, one of the greats, but he sure scored lots of crappy films. I recently watched Windows with Elizabeth Ashley and Talia Shire; what a piece of shit that was! Gordon Willis proved himself in his lone film as director, but as much as they tried to polish this turd to a high gloss, there’s only so much you can do with one of the worst scripts in movie history!



    You should at least see Love Crimes, one of those “so bad it’s hilarious” films (see also: Scissors starring Sharon Stone, from around the same time).

    -------------
    MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

    "Siento que debemos saber para el sueño de quién brillará esta luz
    o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici

    N.P.:“Dolina leptira”-Tako/U vreći za spavanje
    That movie with Talia Shire - isn't it about some killer and high rise buildings? I wanted to see it some time ago...Btw, Carpenter made a movie about a maniac living in the opposite building of the main heroine - a TV movie Someone's Watching Me - a really great one.

    About the Argento earlier work - Four Flies...I didn't like at all. It's a bit of a mess. As if he didn't know what he wanted to make. Those Bud Spencer scenes are weird. Also it's cinematography is pretty weak. As far as I know, Argento himself doesn't like this film.
    On the other hand, I think that The Bird With The Crystal Plumage and The Cat O'Nine Tails are worth watching - good cinematography, some shots are just exceptional - the camera placement is unique. The colors are amazing. The technical aspects of both these films are genius.

  17. #42
    No question Profundo Rosso and Suspiria are Argento's principal films, and the soundtracks are great as well. I happen to think that Opera is in the same class (with a nice bit of Verdi and some great set pieces), and I have a soft spot for The Stendhal Syndrome, with music by Morricone, although it's an exceptionally nasty film. All the rest are more seriously flawed to a greater or lesser extent. Being an Argento fan is probably the most frustrating thing a film fan can be, because pretty much no artist in history has seen their creativity flatline as badly.

    In terms of soundtracks, I actually think that the Inferno soundtrack by Emerson is the best of all.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by dnieper View Post
    The tough thing about Bava is that he doesn't have that "one" film that epitomizes his work the way Suspiria does for Argento. My favorite Bava movie (and I've seen about 15) is probably Cani Arrabbiati (aka Rabid Dogs, Kidnapped), but it's very unlike the ones he's more known for (Black Sunday, Bay of Blood), neither of which I liked much.
    The movie which you say is your favourite, I have heard about it and have seen some movie discussion shows where somebody recommended this film. I have yet to see something from Bava. There was one black and white of his form the 60's which was on my radar some time ago. Will try to find it.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Sordel View Post
    No question Profundo Rosso and Suspiria are Argento's principal films, and the soundtracks are great as well. I happen to think that Opera is in the same class (with a nice bit of Verdi and some great set pieces), and I have a soft spot for The Stendhal Syndrome, with music by Morricone, although it's an exceptionally nasty film. All the rest are more seriously flawed to a greater or lesser extent. Being an Argento fan is probably the most frustrating thing a film fan can be, because pretty much no artist in history has seen their creativity flatline as badly.

    In terms of soundtracks, I actually think that the Inferno soundtrack by Emerson is the best of all.
    The problem with Opera is that violence there is over the top, especially the ending was weird. That is one of the films on which Argento said that the main actress was very difficult to work with. He said something similar about actors from some other films. I think that Phenomena is better, but that doesn't mean that Opera is a bad film. It's alright.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by selmer View Post
    The problem with Opera is that violence there is over the top
    Difficult to get anywhere with Argento if you draw the line at violence that is over the top. I like Opera because it's the purest example of Argento's repeated tropes: the voyeurism of the audience and the artificiality of the drama. Also there are some stunning setpieces. If you treat it as 'operatically' violent I think it stands up.

  21. #46
    I really like Dawn Of The Dead, cheesy though it may be But Susperia is my favorite.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Sordel View Post
    Difficult to get anywhere with Argento if you draw the line at violence that is over the top. I like Opera because it's the purest example of Argento's repeated tropes: the voyeurism of the audience and the artificiality of the drama. Also there are some stunning setpieces. If you treat it as 'operatically' violent I think it stands up.
    I just think that almost every movie before it was superior to it. On the other hand, it's his last movie that was OK. On Two Evil Eyes he directed just one segment but it wasn't anything special. Trauma was his first American film, it was OK, but even Opera was better than it. After that I haven't seen everything but I have a pretty good idea of what to expect when I do it.

    I agree that Opera has some good setpieces and some of the soundtrack is really good. I just think that in some of his previous ones there was somethng extra to keep the viewer interested. I read that at this time (when making Opera) Argento was a bit depressed and somehow it shows on screen.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I really like Dawn Of The Dead, cheesy though it may be But Susperia is my favorite.
    Dawn Of The Dead is hailed by many as a masterpiece. For me it's alright, although some scenes when they are trapped in that building tend to drag. Maybe it's difficult to expect something different from a siege film, but I think that Carpenter did a far better job when he made Assault On Precinct 13. I also understand that Dawn...is not supposed to be Die Hard, but still I expected something more. Overall it is alright. When you make a movie which basically takes place on one location, you should really try to make it interesting.
    I'm not the biggest fan of Once Upon A Time in The West (although some of the characters are iconic and some set pieces are outsdanding) but out of the films which Argento didn't direct but on which he worked in some capacity, this is a very good film.

  24. #49
    I like the movie (DotD) but I was referring to the soundtrack. I do have a very soft place in my heart for the film though, I lived in Pittsburgh and that was our local mall growing up!

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    I like the movie (DotD) but I was referring to the soundtrack. I do have a very soft place in my heart for the film though, I lived in Pittsburgh and that was our local mall growing up!
    That changes a lot. It adds a personal element.
    Apparently several more movies have been made there. Also there was a blog where a guy visited locations for various movies and compared how it was then and what it looks like now. DOTD was one of them, I would say that nothing much has changed there.

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