Phil Collins "people used to think I was musical evil"

[Rufus]

It certainly did divide the G base. Musically the Lamb is wonderful, I'll grant you that. However, lyrically and conceptually it is severely flawed imo.

OK , I see your point ! The lyrics even divided the band let alone the fans .
I understand Banks has said he couldn't make sense of them !

[battema]

I don't really get why not. I know he had some health issues that made drumming hard or impossible, but what about programmed drumming (which CAN be done very well)? I don't get why he's completely retired.

Not that I really care, I didn't enjoy much of his solo work...

Actually...that perception (opinion?) was just based on comments that he himself has made. If he was at a point where he still felt strongly driven to write, I'm sure he'd find a way (programming, guests, etc..). But if he's kind of at peace with the musical legacy he's created then yeah...I doubt he'll be returning.

I like his solo work, even some of the more recent bits (my personal fave is Both Sides, with Face Value in 2nd place). And Brand X, and Genesis both old and new, and the many, many, MANY guest spots he's done, all the way up to the drum duet with his son on U-Catastrophe a few years ago.

[PeterG]

Oh boy. Next you're going to tell me that you dated Rosanna Arquette.

No, but in the early 80s I did once date a Californain bird of Armenian descent called Minassian..that's close enough I guess

[Scott Bails]

If a one armed can make a comeback then why not Collins ?

Gee, maybe because the one-armed man was forty years younger than Collins is now?

[arturs]

Count me in as someone who still likes a lot of Phil's solo output, at least the first three. And I have even warmed to Invisible Touch over the years...

But one odd thing about this, and several other, interviews is how concerned Phil seems to be about what people think of him. The anti-Phil backlash really seems to have stung him. I'm surprised that someone as successful as him, with his $250 million or whatever, is still so worried about public opinion. The guy has made a lot of bread and some great records too. You would think he could just move on and not concern himself with these issues one way or the other.

[Vic2012]

You would think he could just move on and not concern himself with these issues one way or the other.

Yup. The guy has a long legacy to be very proud of. He doesn't need to apologize for anything. The best Genesis albums are Trick & Wind (imo). So he was overexposed in the 80s. So what? He had some success. No one has to listen to him if they don't want to. Like whenever I hear "Can't Hurry Love" (his Supremes cover) I want to rip my ears off. I've never bothered with any Phil solo albums. And not that big a fan of his, but his legacy with Genesis is to be admired.

[Kim Olesen]

Count me in as someone who still likes a lot of Phil's solo output, at least the first three. And I have even warmed to Invisible Touch over the years...

But one odd thing about this, and several other, interviews is how concerned Phil seems to be about what people think of him. The anti-Phil backlash really seems to have stung him. I'm surprised that someone as successful as him, with his $250 million or whatever, is still so worried about public opinion. The guy has made a lot of bread and some great records too. You would think he could just move on and not concern himself with these issues one way or the other.

I understand Phil all the way. Either you don't care about other peoples opinions or you do. Money has nothing to do with that.

[Vic2012]

Gotta admit that whenever I hear "In The Air Tonight" (or whatever the title is) in a pub I always sing along and play air drums. I have no need to own the album it's on but I've always loved that song (as cliche as it's become, especially down here in Miami).

[PotatoSolution]

The anti-Phil rhetoric has been relentless and ongoing in the media and amongst his wide fan base for 25 years.

I don't care how thick your skin is, or satisfied you are with your career, some of that noise is going to get through and it is going to sting. He's a human being, for chrissakes.

[pete100ca]

The anti-Phil rhetoric has been relentless and ongoing in the media and amongst his wide fan base for 25 years.

I don't care how thick your skin is, or satisfied you are with your career, some of that noise is going to get through and it is going to sting. He's a human being, for chrissakes.

No shit. Wtf has he ever done personally to people who viciously bash him? He is human just like us and I be forever great full for trick/wind/second out alone, not to mention his contributions do Hackett, Phillips and brand x. His voice on those albums was golden. One of the greatest rock drummers ever.

[Casey]

For me, Phil Collins "jumped the shark" when he appeared on Miami Vice. Those big, baggy pants we a sight to behold.

[progguy]

On the subject of Phil, the Guardian's Sarah Dempster says it best:

"One night at dinner the conversation turned, as conversations often do, to the subject of Phil Collins. Having quickly dispensed with the facts - plays drums, previous tax "issues", head like a ball of Gouda - we moved on to matters of taste, whereupon I foolhardily admitted that I "quite liked" this small, bald man. After all, I explained, he'd been in Genesis, who were great in the early days, and he has a reasonably nice singing voice, which is more than can be said of Robbie Williams and just about anybody else in today's charts.

The response was remarkable. Instead of the violent protests and pitying sighs I might have expected from a group of discerning 29- and 30-year-old music fans, there was an outpouring of agreement, a sense of something close to relief.

"Couldn't agree more," said one friend. "He's really underrated."

"Well done," said another friend, passing me a congratulatory cocktail sausage. "I bought his greatest hits the other day - Against All Odds always makes me cry.""

[Rufus]

No shit. Wtf has he ever done personally to people who viciously bash him?

His ex wives would probably be the best people to answer that !

[Christopher Henry]

His ex wives would probably be the best people to answer that !

Are you one of his ex wives? (serious question)

[Rufus]

Are you one of his ex wives? (serious question)

Wouldnt marry a geek !

Let's put it this way , loyalty is not one of his greatest strenghs , not talking about his direction in music either !

[Splicer]

At this point the Phil-bashing is quite cliche and way past its prime. Whether from Genesis fans who blame him for this, that and the other or critics who think his music uncool, it's just a bag of wind right about now. He's done enough in life and given the unwashed masses everything he could give them -- he's got nothing to prove. To be honest, I'd much rather listen to him sing "You'll Be In My Heart" than hear Peter sing the awful "That'll Do Pig" song from Babe 2.

[Digital_Man]

I can understand why some people, especially prog fans, would think that at some arbitrary point Genesis became Phil Collins's backing band. I'd say they feel this way probably because Phil's solo material beared some resemblance to much of the music Genesis was making at some point in the eighties(possibly starting around the time of Abacab/hello I must be going?). However, I'd say it was more than likely a group decision to go in a more poppy direction and don't feel it's fair to blame Phil Collins for that. The simple fact is you couldn't really play prog in the eighties and expect to be more than just a cult band. Even KC's 80's output is not typical prog and is much more commercial sounding(compared to their earlier stuff). So ultimately the Phil ruined Genesis/Genesis became Phil's backing band thing is a bit silly not to mention misguided.

[trurl]

However, I'd say it was more than likely a group decision to go in a more poppy direction and don't feel it's fair to blame Phil Collins for that.

People do seem to forget about Mike + The Mechanics. Mike was happy to go as utterly commercial as Phil. And so was Tony; he just didn't have any success with it outside of Genesis itself. The band was born out of a desire to be pop music songwriters before Phil was even with them; one could argue that prog was never more than a (happy) side road for them.

[Firth]

People do seem to forget about Mike + The Mechanics. Mike was happy to go as utterly commercial as Phil. And so was Tony; he just didn't have any success with it outside of Genesis itself. The band was born out of a desire to be pop music songwriters before Phil was even with them; one could argue that prog was never more than a (happy) side road for them.

There is just a fundamental truth about life, it becomes less innovative with age. The innovative force behind Genesis was Peter Gabriel, and that force reverberated for some number of years after he left Genesis. As time went on, the audience payed Genesis to do something else creatively speaking. One could use the word prog, however IMO music is not prog unless also innovative. Innovative isn't necessarily prog, however prog has innovative (also a live aspect, like jazz) as one aspect. Peter Gabriel who became more pop, was more innovative than Genesis in the 80's. Genesis without PG were excellent performers and musicians, just not creative. PG who senses a tarnishing of his image from his successful years (80s), will likely never revisit the creativity of Genesis of the 70s.

[happytheman]

I can understand why some people, especially prog fans, would think that at some arbitrary point Genesis became Phil Collins's backing band. I'd say they feel this way probably because Phil's solo material beared some resemblance to much of the music Genesis was making at some point in the eighties(possibly starting around the time of Abacab/hello I must be going?). However, I'd say it was more than likely a group decision to go in a more poppy direction and don't feel it's fair to blame Phil Collins for that. The simple fact is you couldn't really play prog in the eighties and expect to be more than just a cult band. Even KC's 80's output is not typical prog and is much more commercial sounding(compared to their earlier stuff). So ultimately the Phil ruined Genesis/Genesis became Phil's backing band thing is a bit silly not to mention misguided.

Agree..

[happytheman]

People do seem to forget about Mike + The Mechanics. Mike was happy to go as utterly commercial as Phil. And so was Tony; he just didn't have any success with it outside of Genesis itself. The band was born out of a desire to be pop music songwriters before Phil was even with them; one could argue that prog was never more than a (happy) side road for them.

Agree as well.. both you and Digital Man have strong and valid points that are easily glossed over when the "bash Phil" crowd gets going..

[jkleban]

I don't hold it against Phil (arguably the best PROG drummer ever) that he wanted some fame and fortune and capitalized on his opportunities. He eventually wore himself out with all his success and exposure and I dunno, somehow, that made him disrespected.

I still listen to some of his older stuff and am amazed on his drumming creativity and arrangements that just FIT the music.

I for one have called later Genesis, "The Phil Collins Band" for that is what it turned into at the end... Phil with Tony and Mike backing him up. But, I don't blame them either, for they have amassed a larger fortune than most of us can only dream of.

They (Genesis) were and still are my musical heros.

Jim

I usually don't quote myself but apparently some of my comments were taken out of context. I clearly cast NO BLAME to Phil, gave him the highest props, and called him my HERO....

Now, how is that Phil bashing and I apologize to any fans who thought otherwise.

Jim

[happytheman]

There is just a fundamental truth about life, it becomes less innovative with age. The innovative force behind Genesis was Peter Gabriel, and that force reverberated for some number of years after he left Genesis. As time went on, the audience payed Genesis to do something else creatively speaking. One could use the word prog, however IMO music is not prog unless also innovative. Innovative isn't necessarily prog, however prog has innovative (also a live aspect, like jazz) as one aspect. Peter Gabriel who became more pop, was more innovative than Genesis in the 80's. Genesis without PG were excellent performers and musicians, just not creative.

Genesis adopted a "less is more" approach in the 80's... you could blame that on any number of different things...
Peter on the other hand pursued music that he was fond of and most likely felt couldn't be brought to fruition via Genesis... (I know there were other factors as to why he got off the treadmill with Genesis..") times change... artist either adapt and move forward with the crowd or chart their own course and hope some of the crowd follows... in both cases the crowd followed..

[Progatron]

It's funny how often people use the word 'blame' - as though something terrible happened that someone should answer for. Nobody 'ruined' Genesis. They were always a great band who simply didn't always write and record the same kind of music. Genesis made some great music in the 80s. I prefer the 70s stuff myself (or what I like to call the 'Hackett years') but I get a lot of enjoyment out of (most of) the material on these albums that so many people slam. Hey, I don't like "Illegal Alien" either. But is it really so strange that they wrote a short, humorous song with silly lyrics? They did that in 1971 too with "Harold The Barrel". I like that one better, but how many of us would even listen to it if it wasn't on such a grand, heralded classic as Nursery Cryme?

Phil's comment about how you can't get Tony Banks to do something he doesn't want to do is worth mentioning a second time because I think that's probably quite accurate. Phil didn't just waltz into rehearsal one day and say "Here's how it's gonna be from now on". There was a flow and direction around the dawn of the 1980s that affected most bands. Trevor Rabin took a lot of heat for this kind of thing too, for example, but then he was never a household name and on tabloid pages, so he doesn't get the worldwide finger-pointing.

Phil was an extremely talented and natural musician. He's responsible for SO much music that I love, with Genesis, with Brand X, and yes, solo too. Because he also happened to record other songs that I don't care for so much does not take away the music I do care for.

Peter Gabriel did "Sledgehammer", Mike (and the Mechanics) did "All I Need Is A Miracle", Tony Banks did "This Is Love", Steve Hackett did "Hope I Don't Wake". And all the while Genesis - with Phil - were recording and touring songs like "Domino", "The Brazilian", "Home By The Sea".... if those are 'commercial sell-outs', I'll eat my hat!

[Firth]

Genesis adopted a "less is more" approach in the 80's... you could blame that on any number of different things...
Peter on the other hand pursued music that he was fond of and most likely felt couldn't be brought to fruition via Genesis... (I know there were other factors as to why he got off the treadmill with Genesis..") times change... artist either adapt and move forward with the crowd or chart their own course and hope some of the crowd follows... in both cases the crowd followed..

Oh you can blame or attribute the change in Genesis to any number of factors, however Genesis without PG was not nearly as innovative, and did more mimicking of previous music. Gabriel took a innovative approach.