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Thread: Refugee - (Moraz and 2/3 of The Nice)

  1. #51
    I've got an extra copy of the REfugee record that I'll sell or trade.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof View Post
    I've got an extra copy of the REfugee record that I'll sell or trade.
    Are you selling it because of Lee Jackson's voice?

  3. #53
    no. i'm keeping two copies in spite of them
    Last edited by Blah_Blah_Woof_Woof; 08-12-2013 at 03:56 PM.

  4. #54
    Wasn't the Nice a 4-piece?

  5. #55
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dregsfan View Post
    Wasn't the Nice a 4-piece?
    Only on their first album.

  6. #56
    Member daven's Avatar
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    These were the second band I saw live. It was about the fourth gig they played (Bangor Pritchard Jones Hall). They played all of the album and a couple of Nice tunes. They played really well and were very tight. I'd never thought much of Brian Davison's drumming with the Nice, but on that night he was really impressive. Lee Jackson's playing was spot on but his persona was like that of some cheesy cabaret band member. His jacket has had a few mentions, but who remembers the matching trousers? The yellow and red stripes formed a heart shape around his 'gentleman's area', and he told jokes between songs.
    The title of Ritt Mickley, incidentally, comes from Patrick's Swiss pronounciation of the word "rhythmically".

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    I woke up with the "SOMEDAYY YOURE GONNA FEEL THE PAIN" line in my head

    I can feel it right now, Mr. Jackson!

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    The title of Ritt Mickley, incidentally, comes from Patrick's Swiss pronounciation of the word "rhythmically".
    Good to know. For years I thought they must have had a friend named Mick Rittley.

  9. #59
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    This album is being reissued by Esoteric as a 3CD set. Remastered with the BBC Radio One’s “In Concert” and Newcastle’s City Hall concerts added in: https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/...oxset-edition/

  10. #60
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    This could be so good until the vocals start..shame!
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    This album is being reissued by Esoteric as a 3CD set. Remastered with the BBC Radio One’s “In Concert” and Newcastle’s City Hall concerts added in: https://www.cherryred.co.uk/product/...oxset-edition/
    I got the "twofer" a few years back.. curious what the BBC material sounds like.. I've never heard any of it.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    worst album cover ever .
    care to explain ?

  13. #63
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    This could be so good until the vocals start..shame!
    Maybe Disc 3 is the entire album without vocals. But, the vocals never bothered me.
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    Maybe Disc 3 is the entire album without vocals. But, the vocals never bothered me.
    As always it's a personal pov, but to me they almost seem like an afterthought and not taken seriously. Some other comments on YT felt the same way, but it's enough to keep me from purchasing.
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  15. #65
    While Jackson was a technically very poor singer, some of his timbre actually worked to intent - especially with The Nice but also in his Jackson Heights project.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    While Jackson was a technically very poor singer, some of his timbre actually worked to intent - especially with The Nice but also in his Jackson Heights project.
    Interestingly, I was just checking out some Jackson Heights on YT to see if my view was just an isolated event. I thought his voice(which had a lot of reverb) worked better on that project, but I agree there are moments on Refugee I liked, but overall it is distracting enough for me to not listen to the whole album.
    I also feel, and I know this may be sacrilege to say, but I felt Patrick Moraz on this album was trying too much to sound like Keith Emerson.
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  17. #67
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    I was stunned to hear the Nice on the sound system at Trader Joe's this morning. A pretty deep track, too: "Diamond Hard Blue Apples of the Moon" (also covered live by Refugee, so relevant to this thread!), not on any of their original albums. One doesn't often hear the dulcet tones of Lee Jackson in public places.

    It wasn't until I was leaving the store that I realized that in an odd coincidence I was wearing a Nice t-shirt from their reunion show in 2002, which I probably haven't worn in years.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    Maybe Disc 3 is the entire album without vocals. But, the vocals never bothered me.
    HaHa. Vocals never bothered me either. I LOVE this album. And for the record, Disc 3 is the live Newcastle recording;


    TRACKLISTING

    DISC ONE

    REFUGEE
    THE ORIGINAL ALBUM
    RE-MASTERED

    1. PAPILLON
    2. SOMEDAY
    3. GRAND CANYON:
    1ST MOVEMENT –
    THE SOURCE
    2ND MOVEMENT – THEME
    FOR THE CANYON
    3RD MOVEMENT –
    THE JOURNEY
    4TH MOVEMENT – RAPIDS
    5TH MOVEMENT – THE
    MIGHTY COLORADO

    4. GATE CRASHER
    5. RITT MICKLEY
    6. CREDO:
    1ST MOVEMENT – PRELUDE
    2ND MOVEMENT – I BELIEVE
    3RD MOVEMENT – THEME
    4TH MOVEMENT – LOST
    CAUSE
    5TH MOVEMENT – AGITATO
    6TH MOVEMENT – I BELIEVE
    (PART II)
    7TH MOVEMENT –
    VARIATION
    8TH MOVEMENT – MAIN
    THEME FINALE

    DISC TWO

    BBC RADIO ONE IN CONCERT
    9TH MAY 1974

    1. RITT MICKLEY (BBC IN CONCERT 1974 – PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED)
    2. SOMEDAY (BBC IN CONCERT 1974 – PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED)
    3. THE GRAND CANYON SUITE
    1ST MOVEMENT – THE SOURCE
    2ND MOVEMENT – THEME FOR THE
    CANYON
    3RD MOVEMENT – THE JOURNEY
    4TH MOVEMENT – RAPIDS
    5TH MOVEMENT – THE MIGHTY
    COLORADO
    (BBC IN CONCERT 1974 –
    PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED)

    DISC THREE

    LIVE AT NEWCASTLE CITY HALL 16TH JUNE 1974

    1. OUTRO – MITT RICKLEY (LIVE 1974)
    2. ONE LEFT HANDED PETER PAN (LIVE 1974)
    3. THE DIAMOND HARD BLUE APPLES OF THE MOON (LIVE 1974)
    4. SOMEDAY (LIVE 1974)
    5. PAPILLON (LIVE 1974)
    6. SHE BELONGS TO ME (LIVE 1974)
    7. THE GRAND CANYON SUITE
    1ST MOVEMENT – THE SOURCE
    2ND MOVEMENT – THEME FOR
    THE CANYON
    3RD MOVEMENT – THE JOURNEY
    4TH MOVEMENT – RAPIDS
    5TH MOVEMENT – THE MIGHTY
    COLORADO (LIVE 1974)
    8. REFUGEE JAM (LIVE 1974)

  19. #69
    The vocals never bothered me, either - have you all HEARD some of prog's singers?

  20. #70
    I have the LP with their signatures (bought it in 1980 )

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    The vocals never bothered me, either - have you all HEARD some of prog's singers?
    No, never understood the fuss either. There's a whole raft of extreme love/hate vocalists in prog from Hammill, Surkamp, Roger Chapman and onwards into infinity. Maybe I'm just hardened to them now...

  22. #72
    ^ Not really all that comparable, IMHO. Hammill, Surkamp and Chapman were all apt singers, technically speaking, with admittedly very peculiar or even idiosyncratic voices. Whereas Jackson simply just couldn't sing for the best of his life. The latter's attempt to do "My Back Pages", for instance (The Nice's version) - this is not an effort of curiosa but of subpar mediocrity.

    Other than that, the notion of "bad prog vocalists in general" is more of a myth than anything. There were and are dozens of outstanding singers involved.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Not really all that comparable, IMHO. Hammill, Surkamp and Chapman were all apt singers, technically speaking, with admittedly very peculiar or even idiosyncratic voices. Whereas Jackson simply just couldn't sing for the best of his life. The latter's attempt to do "My Back Pages", for instance (The Nice's version) - this is not an effort of curiosa but of subpar mediocrity.

    Other than that, the notion of "bad prog vocalists in general" is more of a myth than anything. There were and are dozens of outstanding singers involved.
    Thing is, if he was majorly flat or out of tune, I'm sure it would grate on me, but, for whatever reason, I never even think about it. Hell, now I think about it, I saw the reformed Nice 2 or 3 times in the early 2000s and thought nothing of it. It seems blown out of all proportion to me, though I do get a good laugh out of the grimacing of others.

  24. #74
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Oddly enough I just spun a few times Mainhorse last week, and this thread pops back up from the dead


    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    The vocals never bothered me, either - have you all HEARD some of prog's singers?
    Well Jackson is amongst the worst of them
    And/but, the last thing I'd want is a belcher like Aretha or Whitney on my prog records

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Not really all that comparable, IMHO. Hammill, Surkamp and Chapman were all apt singers, technically speaking, with admittedly very peculiar or even idiosyncratic voices. Whereas Jackson simply just couldn't sing for the best of his life. The latter's attempt to do "My Back Pages", for instance (The Nice's version) - this is not an effort of curiosa but of subpar mediocrity.
    Well I wouldn't go that far, though the man's ego (along a legendary disputable sense of fashion >> see Refugee's cover) pushed him to be lead singer on 5 nice albums, four JH albums and Refugee, which shows some perseverance, the whole thing on very little talent.

    At best, he was tolerable.

    Other than that, the notion of "bad prog vocalists in general" is more of a myth than anything. There were and are dozens of outstanding singers involved.
    True that!!

    Has LJ done anything after Refugee?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by lovecraft View Post
    It seems blown out of all proportion to me,
    I see what you mean and I agree to some extent. Jackson's "badness" is overrated - if not exactly exaggerated. If that makes any sense.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

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