Refugee - (Moraz and 2/3 of The Nice)

[Scrotum Scissor]

Still confident it'll never even make a Top 10,000 list ...

Come to think of it, you're probably right:
http://blog.tastebuds.fm/worst-album...s-of-all-time/

[Scrotum Scissor]

I have Mainhorse on album, but it's been YEARS since I heard this...

It really isn't all too bad; a bit "proto-prog" in places, but there are definite moments of interest in there. A bit intriguing to hear Moraz in such a guitar'ish setting (check Relayer as well, of course).

[JeffCarney]

Come to think of it, you're probably right:
http://blog.tastebuds.fm/worst-album...s-of-all-time/

Thank you. Via that link is my point; proved.

[JeffCarney]

IMHO Moraz was leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else ... Refugee was stunning shame the Yes gig curtailed their career. Although Relayer
is also my favourite Yes album :-)

Nobody was "leaps and bounds ahead" of Emerson, Dave Stewart, Rick Wakeman, Kerry Minnear, Chick Corea ... I could go on ...

Moraz was simply incredible, but I think you're promoting him to unattainable extremes. And despite the fact that he had a very unique approach to soloing, he did lift quite a bit from Jan Hammer. Hence, while his originality was very high, it is brought back to life a bit by that.

It's also kind of interesting that he was arguably less successful than some others at controlling his arsenal of sounds in the mid 70s. Live multi-keyboards are an inexact science, to be sure, but by 1974 Emerson was in another stratosphere in terms of having his live sounds together and cohesive. Wakeman was also right there. In fairly stark contrast, Moraz seemed to suffer more difficulties in this respect.

[happytheman]

Nobody was "leaps and bounds ahead" of Emerson, Dave Stewart, Rick Wakeman, Kerry Minnear, Chick Corea ... I could go on ...

Moraz was simply incredible, but I think you're promoting him to unattainable extremes. And despite the fact that he had a very unique approach to soloing, he did lift quite a bit from Jan Hammer. Hence, while his originality was very high, it is brought back to life a bit by that.

It's also kind of interesting that he was arguably less successful than some others at controlling his arsenal of sounds in the mid 70s. Live multi-keyboards are an inexact science, to be sure, but by 1974 Emerson was in another stratosphere in terms of having his live sounds together and cohesive. Wakeman was also right there. In fairly stark contrast, Moraz seemed to suffer more difficulties in this respect.

Kit Watkins held his own during that same time period...

[Ken Baird]

Great album and the cover is good fun. I'm very glad it was made. Here's a video of them (the only one I've seen) that someone shared with me recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtfKSUyYaEU

[JJ88]

That clip is from 'The Old Grey Whistle Test', a UKTV show of the 70s and 80s. I recognise Bob Harris' voice at the start.

[Casey]

I've never seen that video. Ahhh, the memories of the time when that album was often on my turntable.

It's nice to see Jackson was getting a great deal of use with that jacket.

[Scrotum Scissor]

nice to see Jackson was getting a great deal of use with that jacket.

I'm sure he was proud of it in some way. Seriously; I betcha there's some story to it. Wonder if he still has it? Can't help but love that jacket.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I mean, it's like Jackson Jacket. Or Jacket-Jackson. Or something.

[A. Scherze]

And, Moraz seems pretty good at "controlling his arsenal of sounds in the mid 70s". E.g., playing 2 Minis at the same time.

[Paulrus]

That clip is from 'The Old Grey Whistle Test', a UKTV show of the 70s and 80s. I recognise Bob Harris' voice at the start.

Very cool. Love the intertubes.

Speaking of, here's something I just found (some of you may already have seen it). I gather it's from '79 and features Moraz showing off his arsenal of goodies live (I assume).



I can imagine him offering something similar for his Moody Blues audition and them just going, "Um, that's nice. Can you just play a 3-minute pop song please?"

[JeffCarney]

And, Moraz seems pretty good at "controlling his arsenal of sounds in the mid 70s". E.g., playing 2 Minis at the same time.

Yeah, if only they were in tune.

A problem he seemed to experience far more than Emerson and Wakeman in the mid 70s. In particular, his Micromoog seemed to cause him problems for whatever reasons.

[AWG]

Vocals are entirely unacceptable to me. I listen to it regularly because the instrumental work is sublime (Davison's drums are much better than anything he did in the Nice). I cringe. Same with most of the vocals on Moraz's solo albums.

I don't understand why such virtuoso musicians are willing to accept such mediocre vocals. (see "Wakeman, Rick").

[Ken Baird]

I really like some of what some people think of as "bad" singers as long as there is personality there in the voice. So I enjoy Ashley Holt, Lee Jackson and Gary Pickford- Hopkins (RIP) because they're just darn classic voices that work well for the albums they're on. I really like Jon Anderson/Peter Gabriel/name your favourite singer here types too, but what some people consider a bad voice, I often find pretty cool. Maybe it's just me, but I'd get bored if everyone had perfect voices.

That said, the chorus to "Someday" is pretty hard to take, even for me! But I like most of the other vocals.

[HoldYourFire]

I'm with Ken. Although I think Lee Jackson really pushed the envelope!

[happytheman]

Vocals are entirely unacceptable to me. I listen to it regularly because the instrumental work is sublime (Davison's drums are much better than anything he did in the Nice). I cringe. Same with most of the vocals on Moraz's solo albums.

I don't understand why such virtuoso musicians are willing to accept such mediocre vocals. (see "Wakeman, Rick").

I believe Keith says in his book that he quite enjoyed Lee's vocals with the Nice.. and I would agree Somedays has to be the bottom of the pit for Lee..
Likewise I've never understood Ricks affection for Ashly's vocals.. so many of his albums would have been made better either w/o vocals or someone who could sing..

[JIF]

Is this a great headphone album? Just asking, because I haven't listened to this in a long time. However, I need a headphone album.

[Harbottle]

Come to think of it, you're probably right:
http://blog.tastebuds.fm/worst-album...s-of-all-time/

Oh no! I've got one of those albums in that list!

[Ken Baird]

I believe Keith says in his book that he quite enjoyed Lee's vocals with the Nice.. and I would agree Somedays has to be the bottom of the pit for Lee..
Likewise I've never understood Ricks affection for Ashly's vocals.. so many of his albums would have been made better either w/o vocals or someone who could sing..

Ashley Holt could be a bit "over the top" but to suggest that he couldn't sing is just plain wrong to me. You're very entitled to not like his voice as I really get that some singers can turn people off and in your case, Ashley is NOT your cuppa, I totally get that (I took a while to get used to his and GPH voices myself). But, he was able to carry entire tours/albums and not have the audience walk out, I'd say he can sing!

[Casey]

If you think Jackson's voice is hard to take (I don't), you should see him dance on some the The Nice videos on youtube.

Oh the humanity.....

[happytheman]

Ashley Holt could be a bit "over the top" but to suggest that he couldn't sing is just plain wrong to me. You're very entitled to not like his voice as I really get that some singers can turn people off and in your case, Ashley is NOT your cuppa, I totally get that (I took a while to get used to his and GPH voices myself). But, he was able to carry entire tours/albums and not have the audience walk out, I'd say he can sing!

Okay maybe I was a bit too harsh... you are right.. he can sing...

[Ken Baird]

Okay maybe I was a bit too harsh... you are right.. he can sing...

Makes me feel better, but of course he's an acquired taste (or not!). In response to Casey, I think I HAVE seen Jackson's dance and it was...interesting. Well, not many proggers do dance do they? I'm sure that's a good thing.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Oh no! I've got one of those albums in that list!

Is it the Johnny Guitar Watson?

[ThomasKDye]

or not

Not. Seriously. Not. He has a fingernails-across-blackboard style with everything he does for Wakeman. If Wakeman weren't so good I wouldn't have tolerated it for as long as I did.

Now I defy anyone to defend Bill "not-so-goodie" Oddie in "The Breathalyser."