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Thread: Attn Fellow Wagnerians

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Attn Fellow Wagnerians

    Once upon a time it was sort of a daydream of mine to see the 'Ring' at Bayreuth. I have changed my mind.

    Some photos from the new production:

    The Rhine Daughters:

    hq bayreuth 2.jpg

    Wotan and Loge:

    hq bayreuth 3.jpg

    Fasolt and Fafner:

    hq bayreuth 5.jpg

    Freia's Kidnapping:

    hq bay 6.jpg

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  2. #2
    chalkpie
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    Yikes. Looks shitty.

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    I'm surprised Wagner himself has risen from the dead to stop this horrific desecration of his dramas.

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fracktured View Post
    I'm surprised Wagner himself has risen from the dead to stop this horrific desecration of his dramas.
    Funny you should say that...

    59hitler1.jpg

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    ^ Is that Roger Waters?

    Wow, this does look bad. I can't imagine having to look at those characters and costumes for hours and hours...

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    LOL. Nah, it's from Syberberg's movie 'Hitler: a Film from Germany'.

    I'm not by any means a stickler for traditionalism, but I don't like paying big money to look at Ugly.

    I'm going to see the 'Ring' (my second in person) at the end of this year in Melbourne. If they fuck up, I'll cry.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    So tonight was opening night. From the NY Times:

    The Wagner bicentennial called for a new production of the “Ring,” and the Wagner sisters entrusted this coveted project to Frank Castorf, a director who made his name running the Volksbühne, or People’s Theater, of Berlin. His brash productions of classics there ignored whole stretches of the texts and presented actors stripped naked, screaming lines, getting drunk on stage and stepping out of character to tell bad jokes. Audiences have long been alternately outraged and enthralled by his work.

    Mr. Castorf’s new “Ring” opens on Friday night with “Das Rheingold,” and the opera world has been buzzing about what he is up to. Photos have been released showing a Mount Rushmore facade with Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao in place of American presidents, a tacky drive-in entrance to place called the Golden Motel and more. We’ll see.

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    I too am conservative when it comes to staging my opera. The just-retired old Ring at the Met suited me just fine thank you. The new Lepage Ring at the Met dwarfs the human scale of the story.

    Nevertheless, I will be there at the end of August to see the third presentation of the Ring at Bayreuth. Don't forget that the Boulez-Chereau Ring was hated when it debuted and is now remembered as probably the last great innovative production and that was 40 years ago. The concept of the new production is the decline of market capitalism which has some promise considering what has happened in the world since 2008. The parody of Mount Rushmore with the four heads of the "gods" of communism could work. In the end it all will stand or fall on the music. Much of the cast is unknown to me other than Johan Botha. I hope to snag a ticket to the Dutchman under Thielemann, the premier Wagner conductor these days,while I am there as well.Leaving for Germany on Aug 20th. If anyone is interested I can post comments after each night.

  9. #9
    I wish i had lived in the late 19th Century, when i could have seen the original Ring with Hans Richter collaborating with Wagner himself, or possibly in the 1950s with Hans Knappertsbusch.
    "and what music unites, man should not take apart"-Helmut Koellen

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    The original Bayreuth Ring visually may have been a little amateurish by today's standards but it would surely have been interesting to hear the style of singing. In the recorded era The 30s through the 60s to my taste seem to be the golden age. The stripped-down Wieland Wagner New Bayreuth productions appeal to me aswell.

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    Member TheH's Avatar
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    I will never understand why there is this need to produce classic works of any kind in a "shocking" modern way.
    I've seen to many productions with either all naked actors or all actors covered in "blood" etc. that I could p*ke.

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenneth8446 View Post
    If anyone is interested I can post comments after each night.
    Yes please!

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  13. #13
    I would like for there to be both traditional productions and experimental productions: not just so "everyone can get what they like," but because that's the best way to keep the energy flowing and the music alive.

    Oh, and those rhinemaidens are hot.
    Cobra handling and cocaine use are a bad mix.

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    I agree in a way. Certainly a wholly traditional production doesn't interest me: I am awed by the pictures I've seen from Wieland Wagner's 50s Ring (and the recordings are stellar) and thought the staging the Boulez/Chereau was visually superb (but musically nothing special); but at the same time I think 'experimentation' of staging that's not respectful of the source material is a waste of talent.

    And selfishly, I have to add that these things are bloody expensive to get to and typically involve shelling out money sight unseen. Tickets to the Melbourne Ring have cost us over $3,000 (for two people, admittedly good seats) before travel and accommodation etc. I'm not complaining: that's our choice and to hear that wonderful music played live is worth that to me. But it's a gamble: the singing is unlikely to match the best of the recorded versions (a fact of life these days) and if to that is added the prospect of a Eurotrash-influenced production, then...

    Still, 'First World Problems' as they say.

    btw, speaking of Eurotrash, here's the trailer for the new DG 'Parsifal'. I greatly admire Thielemann, but the production, with Grail Knights dressed up to look like Tele-tubbies, a midget (the detached penis of Klingsor?) and a Parsifal who looks like a judge on 'Celebrity Masterchef', is not something I feel attracted to.



    That said, I do hope the Met commercially releases their recent production of 'Parsifal' with the wonderful Jonas Kaufmann. I saw at the cinema via that great Met/Digital service and it was stunning.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    I agree, the new Met Parsifal is visually striking. In these days of shared production costs other companies benefit. The Canadian Opera Company in Toronto will mount that production in a couple of seasons. Really looking forward to it. I have no illusions that it will come with Kaufmann but that would be a treat.

    Jonas Kaufmann really does merit the accolades. I saw him on Montreal this season singing Die Schone Mullerin and was at the Met for the premier of the Lepage Die Walkure where we was an amazing Siegmund.

    I agree with Sturgeon's Lawyer, there is room for traditional and experimental production but the experimental productions have to be informed and by that I mean aware of the traditions and subtexts and not clumsy ill-informed amateurish work like the ham-fisted productions of the young Ms. Wagner has given the world. Mr Castorf is a director from the former East Germany of some reknown and may be well enough informed to create a product which credibly comments on the decline of market capitalism and the production is supposed to attempt. The intentions are valid. Wagner was writing during the early days of industrialization and was a contemporary of Marx and Engels. Visually it appears garish but maybe that is part of the message.

    I would gladly post comments after each opera and maybe we can have a good discussion. Thanks, Oreb for the interest.

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Interesting review, mixed but broadly positive:

    http://www.dw.de/the-new-ring-in-bay...one/a-16979806

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link. Petrenko and the orchestra get a solid review. Vocally the Alberich and Fasolt get raves and the rest get a pass. Final word on the production will have to wait for a few days. I believe Anthony Tommasini from the New York Times is there but I haven't seen a review yet.

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    Anthony Tommasini's review of Rheingold and Die Walkure is now posted at nytimes.com. Also mixed yet positive. Another rave for Petrenko's conducting.

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    I've not heard Petrenko, but he is certainly impressing critics. Have you heard him?

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    I haven't heard him either. I read recently that he is slated to take over the Bavarian State Opera when Kent Nagano's contract is up. That was the first I had heard of him.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    I greatly admire Thielemann, but the production, with Grail Knights dressed up to look like Tele-tubbies, a midget (the detached penis of Klingsor?) and a Parsifal who looks like a judge on 'Celebrity Masterchef', is not something I feel attracted to.
    The midget has an amazing, rich baritone! Ok, not really.

    Most importantly, are there some topless chicks in that, or were they wearing some kind of tops? I know they had fake tats, but it looked like skin.

  22. #22
    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    Further reviews of the first performances of the first three operas of The Ring here:
    http://www.dw.de/top-stories/germany/s-1432

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    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    And a wry mention here:

    http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2013/07...-fellatio.html

    I don't know. I'm not opposed to blow jobs per se, just not sure about one in this context Petrenko continues to impress, apparently. Good news always to hear of a new conductor with the Gift.

    Are you getting to Meistersinger Kenneth? New production looks intriguing - I don't know who's conducting:

    http://www.the-wagnerian.com/2013/07...-herheims.html

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

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    Member kenneth8446's Avatar
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    All I have currently is tickets for the Ring. While I am there there will also be a Dutchman and a Lohengrin each if which I will be trying to get tickets for. No Meistersinger, unfortunately. I love Meistersinger and I have seen only traditional productions and loved them. The Salzburg Meistersinger at first glance looks like an Elizabethan stage. Very attractive. Will be jn Munich on the 28th and may look for something there to see as well.

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    I will never understand why there is this need to produce classic works of any kind in a "shocking" modern way
    I once asked that of a man I was sitting next to at a production of Parsifal at the Staatsoper in Berlin. He said (paraphrasing): "Opera is central to our culture. From the time we are small children, we go to the opera the way you Americans go to movies. It would be very boring to always see the same thing on stage for operas we see many different productions of. We know the stories, we know how it was originally staged, so it's up to the director to show us something new".

    I'm a huge opera fan, I've been traveling all over the US and Europe since the late 1980's going to performances. To use an example:

    In 1995, the Los Angeles Opera did a production of Debussy's glorious Pelleas et Melisande. The production by Peter Sellars was set in a Malibu beach house, on 5 levels. This was during the OJ Simpson trial, which if you lived here, you simply couldn't avoid unless you sat in a dark room with no TV and had no other human contact for the duration. In this production, Golaud was played by Willard White, a tall burly black man, Melisande by Monica Groop, a small blonde woman. At one point, Golaud gets angry at Melisande and starts to get physical. The crowd literally gasped, it was OJ and Nicole on the opera stage. It was a great production, Esa-Pekka Salonen was incredible in the pit, it was one of the greatest nights I've ever had in an opera house.

    About two years later, Pelleas was done in San Francisco, in a VERY traditional way, all hazy, gauzy sunlight and so on. Despite a good cast and good conducting, it was boring beyond description, it said nothing to me (or my friends) about the opera.

    Moral of that story: take each production as it comes. For example, I'd love to see a DVD of this production of Parsifal from Stuttgart, which I call the "Woah, Parsifal, where can I get some of that LSD that you've taken?" production. [warning: NSFW at all, lots of bums and tits]:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkyVvxZ3VOU
    ...or you could love

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