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Thread: Evolving with a band as opposed to retro-ing back

  1. #26
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    Floyd & Zep aren't relegated to the parents record collection or the occasional play on classic rock radio, they sit side by side what is coming out now ... on youtube.
    Good point. Makes me wonder where and how today's youth is getting turned on to 70s music and how its being presented. Yes, probably YouTube, but where else?

    Maybe Pandora and such. In the car we spend a lot of time listening to Deep Tracks but also to.the Sinatra channel.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Good point. Makes me wonder where and how today's youth is getting turned on to 70s music and how its being presented. Yes, probably YouTube, but where else?

    Maybe Pandora and such. In the car we spend a lot of time listening to Deep Tracks but also to.the Sinatra channel.
    Kids movies. My 6 year old loved Barracuda, The Immigrant Song and I'm A Believer because of the Shrek movies And her favorite song was Low Rider for a while because it was in a movie.

  3. #28
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    I found with my daughter's generation there is no sense of history. To her Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain and Franz Liszt are all dead white guys. She doesn't know or care who came first.

    yeah, I can't understand that myself... I always looked when an album was first released... mind you it was easier to find that info on vinyls; than on a lot of CD reissues... let alone mp3's that don't even tell who's playing the music

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    Some (most?) of the kids on this board don't distinguish between the innovators of the '60s and '70s and the "me-too" bands from the '80s, '90s and '00s that copied them.
    Wzellas a 70's kid, we didn't have all that much to track of either and landmarks were rather easy to keep track of...
    the first real revivals (as in retroing back) were in the 80's (Romantics, Stray Cats and stuff), which would help to confuse further the kids nowadays ...
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  4. #29
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    Kids are usually into music for its entertainment value, not because they are budding historians.

  5. #30
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Good point. Makes me wonder where and how today's youth is getting turned on to 70s music and how its being presented. Yes, probably YouTube, but where else?
    They're getting it from their parents and their friend's parents. I'm amazed at the number of young people I meet who love classic/rock. I met a guy yesterday who was 32. He might as well have been 22. Just a kid. Somehow we got into a conversation about music. The kid worships Pink Floyd. I meet so many youngsters who just love Pink Floyd. I asked him if he'd ever heard the album "Wish You Were Here." Are you kidding? was his response. So I put the song on the jukebox and he sang all the words. I don't even know all the words to that song. And of course he loved Led Zeppelin too. He never heard of YES though .

  6. #31
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I know what you're saying here, and there's certainly something to be said for appreciating an artist's contribution to their genre, but at the end of the day, if it sounds good, it is good. One need not understand an artist's impact on their art to enjoy their work.
    I was maybe an exception (although not a rarity) back in the 70's, but I got very quickly that old Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rock (Bert of Vortex records in Toronto was also a good help), because the historical perpective was always very important in music... and that's valid for all arts... and history as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    When I was their age, I was listening to... Zep, Stones, Aerosmith, Sabbath. Is today's music really that crappy?

    My parents listened to big band music until they were old folks. I listen to '70s music now that I'm old. Why are today's kids listening to... Seventies Music???
    The kids listen to their contemporary stuff too!!!, but they also have to cope the the great rock music of yesterdecades as well... And the smarter ones will quickly understand that Metallica wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for the Zeps and Sabs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    They're getting it from their parents and their friend's parents. I'm amazed at the number of young people I meet who love classic/rock. I met a guy yesterday who was 32. He might as well have been 22. Just a kid. Somehow we got into a conversation about music. The kid worships Pink Floyd. I meet so many youngsters who just love Pink Floyd. I asked him if he'd ever heard the album "Wish You Were Here." Are you kidding? was his response. So I put the song on the jukebox and he sang all the words. I don't even know all the words to that song. And of course he loved Led Zeppelin too. He never heard of YES though .

    Lucky him!!!

    Maybe the kids today are more open.... I was thrown in classical and swing-type jazz in my early chilhood, but by the time I was old enough to buy my music... started early, because I made my own money ... newspaper delivery (age 11 in 74 >>< Crime of The Century was my first album)... But I refused to hear classical or jazz anymore... almost grew an attitude at hating it... But then again, most of us were more rebellious than most consumer kids with their videogames, etc...
    Last edited by Trane; 11-19-2012 at 10:19 AM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Is today's music really that crappy?

    My parents listened to big band music until they were old folks. I listen to '70s music now that I'm old. Why are today's kids listening to... Seventies Music???
    For a couple of reasons I suspect. Firstly, the boomer generation has seen to it that their music has survived. Classic rock radio is still a pretty big radio format, in America, anyway. The songs are still used in movies. And the '80s through to the early '90s was probably the last time of the "mega-albums" that everybody heard, and when rock music as a more-or-less shared experience was still a vital part of youth culture.

    Secondly, for any number of reasons (which we don't have necessarily agree upon) the rock music today ("today" being any time in the last 15-20 years or so) is much more fragmented and the bands are less popular than they used to be. Of course there have been big hits over the last 10 years, but not all that many of them have been by rock bands, or even bands who could loosely be termed rock. For teens interested in rock, it's very easy to look backward. Led Zeppelin and The Who are much more accessible (musically, as well as just being everywhere) than Mars Volta or Tool.

  8. #33
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    I don't think I got my love of progressive rock from the radio -- it certainly wasn't a radio staple.

    But you're right everything and everything is available in equal measures now. Maybe the quality of classic rock just simply out-competes today's music. It sure seems that way to me -- but of course I have an old timers bias.

  9. #34
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    [QUOTE=Jubal;6902]The influence there comes from video games like Guitar Hero, as well as the culture of guitar teachers and guitar publications in general. [QUOTE]

    True enough. Also: not sure if it's the same in the States, but the biggest FM radio station up here tend to play a ton of classic rock.

  10. #35
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I was maybe an exception (although not a rarity) back in the 70's, but I got very quickly that old Illustrated Encyclopedia of Rock (Bert of Vortex records in Toronto was also a good help), because the historical perpective was always very important in music... and that's valid for all arts... and history as well.
    Me too. The Rock Encyclopedia served as a buyers guide to me for a couple of years in my teens, but then I always liked history. Most kids my age were only into the latest thing.

  11. #36
    I can tell you that my older son likes 80s synth music and new wave because I have a subscription to satellite radio, and those are the channels we listen to. Had there been a prog rock channel on, my hope would've been that he'd be into that genre, but oh well. He's a bit of a historian in the sense that he wants to know if a particular song of any genre was "groundbreaking" or advanced for its time. Aside from some techno artists, he doesn't really know what's popular these days -- stuff like Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, LMFAO, whatever. But if he were exposed to it more? Maybe he would be, I dunno. I do know that when I was a kid, I used to spin my mom and dad's 45s from the late 50s and early 60s a lot because that's what was available in the house.
    Progtopia is a podcast devoted to interviewing progressive rock, metal, and electronic artists from the past and present, featuring their songs and exclusive interviews. Artists interviewed on the show have included Steve Hackett, Sound of Contact, Larry Fast, Circus Maximus, Anubis Gate, Spock's Beard, and many more. http://progtopia.podomatic.com See you in a land called Progtopia!

  12. #37
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post

    I was surprised that when my son was 13 and started playing guitar, the music that he and his buddies leaned towards were Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin. As one who grew up in the "don't trust anyone over 30" era, I found that to be a huge surprise.
    To me it makes perfect sense. That was an era where guitar took center stage in many ways. It's a bit less so with Pink Floyd perhaps, but there's something going on right up front and in your face with the guitar in a lot of Led Zep and Black Sabbath stuff that a budding guitar player can latch onto, which is often fun to play, and will hold their interest. Music that contains a lot of other sounds like keyboards and horns means that the guitar will take a back seat at times or become less obvious or simply harder to pick out what to play. And there may be a sort of primal or visceral "guitar hero" aspect that is appealing to the mind of a budding young musician. There was for me at that age...knowing and appreciating the importance of becoming part of the background only came later...

  13. #38
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Walk into a Hot Topic or one of those t-shirt stores. There's always a handful of classic acts on the wall: Beatles, Pink Floyd, Sabbath, Bob Marley and Zep. The owner of Hot Topic said the number one selling shirt of all time in his stores was Zep's Swan Song angel logo.

    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  14. #39
    Member Paul's Avatar
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    The younger people I know (early 20s, so about half my age) who are into music have quickly latched on to the classic bands, as opposed to those bands influenced by them. And the refreshing thing is that those of them who dig the classic prog bands have none of the anti-prog baggage that my generation had to deal with - to them it's just good music.
    Tu veux un camembert?

  15. #40
    i always thought that swansong logo was strange since the guys got no genitalia lol.

  16. #41
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I don't think I got my love of progressive rock from the radio -- it certainly wasn't a radio staple.

    But you're right everything and everything is available in equal measures now. Maybe the quality of classic rock just simply out-competes today's music. It sure seems that way to me -- but of course I have an old timers bias.
    I don't buy the quality argument, which I think is so much pearl-clutching to an extent. I think there's been some great rock music released in the last 10 years. Is it derivative? I only care if it's good.

    But where does one go to hear modern rock? The radio is permeated with classic rock format stations. I don't even need to own those CDs. A lot of people are too busy doing other things and are content with whatever is handy. The only other formats are country, top-40 dance pop, and soft rock. If you don't like those kinds of music, then you're listening to classic rock.
    Compact Disk brought high fidelity to the masses and audiophiles will never forgive it for that

  17. #42
    I think it was easier in the past to buy a bands output when things were much cheaper and you could do things like that .

    nowadays its harder to stay on top of bands releases unless you have a computer and the internet. most of us have been "burned" by our fave bands by being a religious fan of their music so for myself i know i've become very picky and careful aboaut buying something without some camples, bits to hear from buddies or even word of mouth recommendations which was something i used also back in the day. Funds were not really amply available to me so i'm still catching up on things i missed back in the 70's 80's and 90's .

  18. #43
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    While I was heavily into prog from the beginning, there are a lot of obscure prog acts whose albums never appeared in any record stores in San Antonio, Austin or Houston. So, I experienced the "retro" thing with those groups in the last 20 years, never hearing them until the CD came out. I'll admit that I have a different kind of reaction to these recent acquisitions. Since I have so many albums now, it's harder for any one album to get more than one or two plays per year, so these albums will probably never become "favorites".

  19. #44
    There's something to be said for living through an event, or a moment in time. I can liken it to world events. I don't know how people felt when JFK or MLK were shot, but I'm sure those who lived through it can tell you exactly where they were and what their emotions were like. To me, they're history lessons. Same as the moon landing. On the other hand, there are people today who didn't live through the Challenger disaster, yet I can remember our teacher wheeling a TV into the classroom so we could all watch the news unfold. And my baby daughter will never know what it was like to live through 9/11, while the things I felt are still as clear as day.

    It's not all that different when it comes to music, I suppose. I love so many artists that flourished in the '60s and '70s, even though I didn't have any choice but to discover them retroactively, since I wasn't born till 1971. My journey started in 1983, with the release of 90125. To me, 90125 was just what Yes sounded like -- I had no other point of reference. It wasn't until I saved up some allowance money and went out to buy some of their older LPs that I discovered a band that sounded completely different from the "Owner of a Lonely Heart" band. That was my gateway to prog, and it totally changed my listening habits.

    The flip side is that those of us who came in later are probably more forgiving of bands that altered their formula. I never minded the arena-rock aspect of '80s Yes, because that's what I cut my teeth on. For those who grew up with Fragile and Close to the Edge, I'm sure 90125 was a much more bitter pill to swallow.

  20. #45
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Excellent points, Adrian.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    There's something to be said for living through an event, or a moment in time. I can liken it to world events. I don't know how people felt when JFK or MLK were shot, but I'm sure those who lived through it can tell you exactly where they were and what their emotions were like. To me, they're history lessons. Same as the moon landing. On the other hand, there are people today who didn't live through the Challenger disaster, yet I can remember our teacher wheeling a TV into the classroom so we could all watch the news unfold. And my baby daughter will never know what it was like to live through 9/11, while the things I felt are still as clear as day.

    It's not all that different when it comes to music, I suppose. I love so many artists that flourished in the '60s and '70s, even though I didn't have any choice but to discover them retroactively, since I wasn't born till 1971. My journey started in 1983, with the release of 90125. To me, 90125 was just what Yes sounded like -- I had no other point of reference. It wasn't until I saved up some allowance money and went out to buy some of their older LPs that I discovered a band that sounded completely different from the "Owner of a Lonely Heart" band. That was my gateway to prog, and it totally changed my listening habits.

    The flip side is that those of us who came in later are probably more forgiving of bands that altered their formula. I never minded the arena-rock aspect of '80s Yes, because that's what I cut my teeth on. For those who grew up with Fragile and Close to the Edge, I'm sure 90125 was a much more bitter pill to swallow.
    Spot on.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
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  23. #48
    Member No Pride's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian View Post
    The flip side is that those of us who came in later are probably more forgiving of bands that altered their formula. I never minded the arena-rock aspect of '80s Yes, because that's what I cut my teeth on. For those who grew up with Fragile and Close to the Edge, I'm sure 90125 was a much more bitter pill to swallow.
    I suppose a lot of people felt that way, but I wasn't one of them. I had just reached my 20s when Yes was making those "classic" albums and I loved them, but... by the time 90125 came out, Yes hadn't done anything for a while, in fact I wasn't aware of much prog going on anywhere at the time. I was absolutely floored when I first heard 90125; not only had Yes returned, but they'd reinvented themselves into something more relevant to the times while still retaining their creativity and ambition, at least imo. And personally, I welcomed the heavier, shreddier guitar work and the more pop-like sensibilities. So it wasn't a bitter pill for all of us. I don't feel that Yes West ever lived up to the promise of 90125, though I do like a good portion of what they did on their follow up albums (there's even some good stuff on "Union" ). Funny, I didn't care for '80s Genesis nearly as much, though I preferred them to Yes in the '70s. But we all have our quirks in our individual tastes.

  24. #49
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    I think the music industry's changed quite a bit since the 60's and 70's; certainly that era had its forgettable pop acts but it felt like the cream generally rose to the top, stuff like Zeppelin, Floyd, and of course the Beatles, all stuff that remains massively popular today and still makes lots of top 100 lists. The top charting albums now on the other hand, not so much. It almost feels like the late 50's/early 60's era all over again, in that you hire a songwriting team to write you a hit and then rush out an album around it, with little regard for what it'll sound like 3-4 years down the road. There are still many good newer bands out there but it's really hard to find them because record companies just don't invest in their artists any more.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
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