echolyn - mei

[gpeccary]

.The band were pretty obviously going for an "expansive" sound. A sound as big as [sarcasm] "America itself" [/sarcasm], and in that sense I think a song of "epic" length is absolutely justified. If anything, I think Echolyn were trying to re-frame the epic rock suite with a uniquely American perspective. Whether they succeeded or failed is up to the listener, but I don't think idiomatic adherence was their goal here. I think they were genuinely trying to put forth something new, or at least "fresh" within the parameters of what the band does.

Bill

I agree, nicely said. That's one thing about these guys, they push their boundaries, and this album is no exception. I saw them play it in its entirety in some dudes house in Boston, its different live for sure. But my buddy described it as the song that goes on forever!
I love them big time all the same!!

[SteveSly]

I have been on an Echolyn kick lately and just happened to pull this out the other night. It is still probably my least favorite Echolyn release. Not that it is bad, but for me it just does not work over the course of a 40 plus minute album. I really like about the first 3rd of it, but then it kind of looses me. I don’t hate it, but would rather listen to any one of their other ones.

Steve Sly

[jot]

Just to note that this is the live version of Mei from Stars and Gardens, not the studio album. It's a very nice version of the song though.

One nice consequence of which is that the whole album is one track for 99 cents at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Mei/dp/B0014D1...I2KT9K6UPN3WHG

[mozo-pg]

Perfect. Easily my favourite and I love everything.

[Yanks2014]

That's why I made my own indexed version.

i. hope (3:57)
ii. absence (4:21)
iii. interlude: abandoned (0:20)
iv. open road (3:14)
v. all that's golden (4:04)
vi. whispers (6:58)
vii. pride, part i (2:07)
viii. pride, part ii (2:54)
ix. infernal scratch (6:18)
x. hope renewed (2:50)
xi. shadows (4:49)
xii. love remains (1:32)
xiii. recovery overture (3:52)
xiv. bound for home (2:10)

I'm sure I could figure out how to do that, but likely I'm too lazy.

[Yanks2014]

My main objection towards Mei is that I cannot really find any overall structural momento in the music to justify the "continuous one-piece epic"-concept, other than the purpoted "prog" aspiration of idiomatic adherence. I actually far prefer Cowboy Poems Free and its "Phish-meets-GGiant" approach.

Really? I think it flows beautifully, it's not a collection of unrelated ideas so many prog epics are guilty of. The best example of that is Supper's Ready. Still love SR to death, but really, that could have been several songs.

[moecurlythanu]

I'm sure I could figure out how to do that, but likely I'm too lazy.

2 programs make it easy: EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and CD Wave (Editor.)

[Nearfest2]

I'm sure I could figure out how to do that, but likely I'm too lazy.

Since you already own the album, I can hook you up with my tracked version. Email me.

[progmatist]

So why is Jon Anderson's "Open" still $8.99? Argghhhhh!!!!!

Because whoever posted Open to Amazon knew enough to change the price from its default of 99 cents. There are many 3rd party services who do all the work of posting music to Amazon and iTunes so artists don't have to jump through all the hoops. Problem is, many of these 3rd party services don't understand the concept of a 25 minute song. They believe a song should be 99 cents regardless of how long it is, or how much work went into it. In iTunes, the default is "album only," which is why you never see a 25 minute song on iTunes for 99 cents. In Amazon, the price must be manually changed to "album only," or an additional 99 cents per 10 minute increment. When the actual album Mei first appeared on Amazon, it too sold for 99 cents. The guys in the band obviously found out what was going on because it was changed to "album only" for the song, and $8.99 for the album.

[zombywoof]

Because whoever posted Open to Amazon knew enough to change the price from its default of 99 cents. There are many 3rd party services who do all the work of posting music to Amazon and iTunes so artists don't have to jump through all the hoops. Problem is, many of these 3rd party services don't understand the concept of a 25 minute song. They believe a song should be 99 cents regardless of how long it is, or how much work went into it. In iTunes, the default is "album only," which is why you never see a 25 minute song on iTunes for 99 cents. In Amazon, the price must be manually changed to "album only," or an additional 99 cents per 10 minute increment. When the actual album Mei first appeared on Amazon, it too sold for 99 cents. The guys in the band obviously found out what was going on because it was changed to "album only" for the song, and $8.99 for the album.

Yes, it seems hardly right that the echolyn guys only get paid $.99 for their hard work (and the album they are most proud of). In actuality, it seems hardly right to pay them $9, but that's beside the point.

[Fracktured]

Coincidentally spun this just a few days ago. I've always been a been a bit so-so on this album. It is "poetic," though like a lot of poetry much of the point goes over my head unless it's explained to me. And even then, it seems somewhat arbitrary and subjective. Which I guess is the point, but when something is so broad it can sort of be about anything, it kind of winds up being about nothing. And that is kind of the case here, though I remain open to an interpretation that really makes it click.

Musically, I think there are some good moments, but there is a ton of repetition, the keyboard solos all sound basically the same, and I think the piece drags on just a bit too long. There are a few too many false endings and crescendos to nothing. It is a beautiful sounding album and the playing is solid, though I still miss their earlier more intricate style. For me this is an OK album that is clearly reaching for something, but sadly falls short. In post NEARFest show Ive seen, Mei does render well live, though I believe that is in part due to some well thought out editing that would have benefited the studio version.


I'm not sure what a "structural momento" is, but this is actually a highly structured piece that has lots of repeated sections and a pretty clear trajectory. The fact that you, or I, might feel certain sections go on too long or the arrangement isn't to our liking, doesn't mean it isn't present. The band were pretty obviously going for an "expansive" sound. A sound as big as [sarcasm] "America itself" [/sarcasm], and in that sense I think a song of "epic" length is absolutely justified. If anything, I think Echolyn were trying to re-frame the epic rock suite with a uniquely American perspective. Whether they succeeded or failed is up to the listener, but I don't think idiomatic adherence was their goal here. I think they were genuinely trying to put forth something new, or at least "fresh" within the parameters of what the band does.

Bill

My perception of the piece finds the repeated parts not long or winded but as a cohesion of the work as a whole. Being someone who loves long symphonic works I'm used to this kind of structure in a lengthy piece of music. Everything to me flows well and balances evenly throughout the 50 minutes of music.

Rick

[eporter66]

I was lucky enough to attend NF 2002 in Trenton and got to see echolyn perform this live. For me, this is a road trip CD as I listened to this over & over on that Monday drive home from NF. A great disc!

[Yanks2014]

Since you already own the album, I can hook you up with my tracked version. Email me.

Cool. I sent one.

[Reach]

More love here. Summertime travels indeed.

[zombywoof]

Okay, I listened to this album the other day. Incredible piece of work that is absolutely impossible to follow up with anything. I loved every minute of it.

[mellotron storm]

I have been on an Echolyn kick lately and just happened to pull this out the other night. It is still probably my least favorite Echolyn release. Not that it is bad, but for me it just does not work over the course of a 40 plus minute album. I really like about the first 3rd of it, but then it kind of looses me. I don’t hate it, but would rather listen to any one of their other ones.

Steve Sly

I agree with Steve although I might put Mei above As The World. Still, Cowboy Poems Free, the debut, The End Is Beautiful and Suffocating The Bloom are my four favourite Echolyn records.

[NogbadTheBad]

It's sitting on my "will probably get round to buying it" list, unfortunately there are extensive "must buy", & "buy soon" lists

[chipperoo]

It took many, many listens for mei to grab hold. But my patience persevered. What a marvelous, emotional, and transcendent piece of music - a journey into darkness, into hope, into redemption. One of echolyn's greatest - which by the way, must be listened to in its entirety, start to finish, in one sitting. Take it in the car, drive into the sunset, destination optional...perfect.

We agree.......imagine that?! ; )

[Amy]

We agree.......imagine that?! ; )

I find that astounding. ;-)

[Adrian]

Since Mei was released, I still have yet to hear another song or album that surpasses it. I think it's an astounding masterpiece.

[Boceephus]

Mei is an amazing work, but I always have to plan out the listening time. It's not a piece for casual listening. While I feel Mei is their highest achievement, it's the one echolyn cd I least listen to, simply because I hate to pause or stop it mid flow. Mei is all or none, for me.

[Baribrotzer]

A couple of general questions:

1. Has Mei now become the benchmark for prog epics, the one for other ambitious artists to aim for? For decades that position was probably held by "Close to the Edge", or maybe "Supper's Ready", and I could cite a few outliers like "Living in the Heart of the Beast" as well. But now it seems to be Mei, and I'm not sure I could name any serious rivals. Perhaps something by Neal Morse or Roine Stolt - but, while each certainly has his followers, neither seems to have the level of general respect Echolyn do.

2. How exactly is Mei put together? Someone in the band (maybe Brett?) once said in an interview that its construction was "surprisingly simple". It doesn't sound that way to me - while some overarching factor besides the occasional repeats may tie the dozen or so themes and "songlets" together, I can't hear anything obvious. Yet it doesn't just meander from idea to idea like Tubular Bells. There seems to be a plan to it. Does anyone on here know the members of Echolyn well enough to ask Brett or Chris what might be a big question and get a considered answer?

[Sputnik]

A couple of general questions:

1. Has Mei now become the benchmark for prog epics, the one for other ambitious artists to aim for? For decades that position was probably held by "Close to the Edge", or maybe "Supper's Ready", and I could cite a few outliers like "Living in the Heart of the Beast" as well. But now it seems to be Mei, and I'm not sure I could name any serious rivals. Perhaps something by Neal Morse or Roine Stolt - but, while each certainly has his followers, neither seems to have the level of general respect Echolyn do.

I don't personally get this sense. Echolyn and Mei certainly have their fans, but I don't think artists, particularly "ambitious" artists, hold Mei in such great esteem. It's good, and probably perceived by them as substantially better than the "Disney Prog" of the Stolts and Morses, but musically Mei isn't particularly challenging, particularly with regards to tonality. Most "ambitious" artists seem to reach more for the dissonant end of the spectrum. I understand your point about Mei being a long-form epic, but I don't think it has supplanted the influence of the 70s touchstone classics among modern artists looking to work in long form. I can't point to a single example where I have heard more "Mei" and less "CttE" (or insert your 70s epic of choice), so I'm not seeing how Mei has become any sort of modern bellwether.

2. How exactly is Mei put together? Someone in the band (maybe Brett?) once said in an interview that its construction was "surprisingly simple". It doesn't sound that way to me - while some overarching factor besides the occasional repeats may tie the dozen or so themes and "songlets" together, I can't hear anything obvious. Yet it doesn't just meander from idea to idea like Tubular Bells. There seems to be a plan to it. Does anyone on here know the members of Echolyn well enough to ask Brett or Chris what might be a big question and get a considered answer?

I'm not sure what you mean by "put together." It is basically just a collection of parts, most of which are repeated over the course of the piece. There isn't really any magic formula to it, though they were judicious in the arrangement. I mapped it out one day on the back of an envelope coming home on the train. I lost the envelope, but that exercise did help me get my head around the way the different parts were used at different moments and did help me appreciate the piece a bit better. For the most part, they did a very good job of bridging from part to part, so there is a seamlessness and flow to the work. The only moments where I think they flubbed it a bit were on a couple of the build-ups that segued into quieter parts, or perhaps it was that they did this one too many times for my taste.

That and for me, the piece is just a bit too long, maybe a few too many repetitions of some sections, or too many repeats within some sections. I think 10 minutes could have come out of this no problem, and it would have been an improvement. But, that's just my opinion. But as far as construction, I'd agree with the band, it is surprisingly simple.

Interesting questions.

Bill

[Yanks2014]

I don't personally get this sense. Echolyn and Mei certainly have their fans, but I don't think artists, particularly "ambitious" artists, hold Mei in such great esteem. It's good, and probably perceived by them as substantially better than the "Disney Prog" of the Stolts and Morses, but musically Mei isn't particularly challenging, particularly with regards to tonality. Most "ambitious" artists seem to reach more for the dissonant end of the spectrum. I understand your point about Mei being a long-form epic, but I don't think it has supplanted the influence of the 70s touchstone classics among modern artists looking to work in long form. I can't point to a single example where I have heard more "Mei" and less "CttE" (or insert your 70s epic of choice), so I'm not seeing how Mei has become any sort of modern bellwether.

What is your definition of an ambitious artist anyway, and who are these people? "Disney Prog"? What the hell is that? Sounds awfully condescending of you in the most prog-snobish of ways. I consider Mei a brialliant album and do think of it as quite ambitious, certainly to my non-musician ears. I couldn't give a crap what a "serious artist" thinks of the music I enjoy, their opinions are no more valid than mine just because they can play an instrument and write music. I'm still stuck on that "disney prog" comment, as if the music of Stolt and Morse isn't really prog rock, and is somehow less valid, just because you don't like it much.

[Haruspex Carnage]

i think the term Disney Prog is SPOT ON to describe the Stolts and Morses...however i still will take Stolt any day of the week over Backstreet Boy Morse...

Back to topic, huge fan of Mei, but i can see where it could drag a bit...i personally just want more of the newer echolyn...the tracks they released as B-sides were just as strong as the 2012 release except When Crows Fly which gets a bit meandering to no real interesting playing after the ABAB of it.