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Thread: Asia - Live with new guitarist Sam Coulson

  1. #26
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Besides, when was the last time that Asia had a "hit"?
    Exactly why it's so stupid that they keep trying to create one.

    Be a little adventurous, is all I'm saying.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Exactly why it's so stupid that they keep trying to create one.

    Be a little adventurous, is all I'm saying.
    Adventurous? Asia was never adventurous. Are you saying that Asia should be more like Yes, ELP, and King Crimson? No offense to Geoff, but I think they would need a different keyboardist for that. I love Geoff, but his new wave/pop background is one of the ingredients in Asia, maybe Asia would've been more progressive with a proggier keyboardist. One part of my thinks that maybe Asia should've been a continuation of Drama, but then they would just do albums like that and not be original.

  3. #28
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Adventurous? Asia was never adventurous. Are you saying that Asia should be more like Yes, ELP, and King Crimson?
    I'm saying that, despite what many claim, the debut was far from average AOR. Everything since is rather safe, but things like "Wildest Dreams" and "Sole Survivor" had some ambition.


    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    No offense to Geoff, but I think they would need a different keyboardist for that. I love Geoff, but his new wave/pop background is one of the ingredients in Asia, maybe Asia would've been more progressive with a proggier keyboardist. One part of my thinks that maybe Asia should've been a continuation of Drama, but then they would just do albums like that and not be original.
    I disagree. Downes is more than capable.

    Again, the issue is the decreased contributions from Howe and Palmer. The debut had a great balance among the four. Everything since is just the Wetton/Downes show. And, especially since the reunion, guitars and drums may as well have been done by studio musicians.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #29
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    I thought that Alpha was good, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I'm saying that, despite what many claim, the debut was far from average AOR. Everything since is rather safe, but things like "Wildest Dreams" and "Sole Survivor" had some ambition.




    I disagree. Downes is more than capable.

    Again, the issue is the decreased contributions from Howe and Palmer. The debut had a great balance among the four. Everything since is just the Wetton/Downes show. And, especially since the reunion, guitars and drums may as well have been done by studio musicians.
    I thought that was a record company decision since they wrote Asia's two big hits together. I think that Aria, Omega, and XXX have a big of the debut album's favorite, and that has probably something to do with the fact that Asia is not on a major label anymore.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I'm saying that, despite what many claim, the debut was far from average AOR. Everything since is rather safe, but things like "Wildest Dreams" and "Sole Survivor" had some ambition. . . . Again, the issue is the decreased contributions from Howe and Palmer. The debut had a great balance among the four. Everything since is just the Wetton/Downes show. And, especially since the reunion, guitars and drums may as well have been done by studio musicians.
    This is spot on. Asia pretty much became a vehicle for Geoff's songwriting, sometimes with John. I respect the effort, but those songs after the debut album or so are not really my thing. The recent stuff is ok, but more workmanlike than inspired.
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  6. #31
    Old Progger! RandyC's Avatar
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    Oh man, I hate this band. Great talent lost in total AOR crapola!
    Sorry.

  7. #32
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    Asia has had a lot of guitar players:

    1.Steve Howe
    2.Mandy Meyer
    3.Al Pitrelli
    4.Pat Thrall
    5.Guthrie Govan
    6.Sam Coulson

    Who did I leave out?

    I think John sees Asia as the "day job" and UK as the "fun band"

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    So, you want him to sound like Steve? I think that Sam's tones gives Asia balls.
    I agree 100% with this. Sam was hired by these 3 guys,not only to replace the absent Steve Howe,but also to play guitar in his own style;even while playing the Howe melodies. I never second guess why a band I like asks somebody to be in their band. I have always trusted them from sheer respect of their integrity and musicianship that they know what they're doing and who am I to ? it. I don't see any flaws in Sam Coulson at all. He's doing pretty damn good considering it's his first gig,which just happens to a huge outdoor festival. I think his use of a Charvel solid body might change the sound a bit,but change is what it's all about really. Nobody could actually expect them to desire a Howe clone could they? He did the job he was hired to do and he did it very well as I heard it. I'm glad he didn't try and play the "Country chicken pickin'" stuff in Sole Survivor. This kid's into melodic sustain and I dig it. I will most likely want to get Valkyrie when it comes out. As far as his fast runs,c'mon since Alvin Lee came out blasting I'm Going Home at Woodstock in 1969,we all have wanted to learn to play fast,it comes with the territory unless you're David Gilmour. I think Asia made a great choice with Sam,and he fits like a glove. I can tell because Asia looked pretty happy with him and in the end that's all that matters.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    Who did I leave out?
    just a few session people:

    elliott randall
    ian crichton
    aziz ibrahim

    didn't steve lukather do the solo on “days like these”?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    I agree 100% with this. Sam was hired by these 3 guys,not only to replace the absent Steve Howe,but also to play guitar in his own style;even while playing the Howe melodies. I never second guess why a band I like asks somebody to be in their band. I have always trusted them from sheer respect of their integrity and musicianship that they know what they're doing and who am I to ? it. I don't see any flaws in Sam Coulson at all. He's doing pretty damn good considering it's his first gig,which just happens to a huge outdoor festival. I think his use of a Charvel solid body might change the sound a bit,but change is what it's all about really. Nobody could actually expect them to desire a Howe clone could they? He did the job he was hired to do and he did it very well as I heard it. I'm glad he didn't try and play the "Country chicken pickin'" stuff in Sole Survivor. This kid's into melodic sustain and I dig it. I will most likely want to get Valkyrie when it comes out. As far as his fast runs,c'mon since Alvin Lee came out blasting I'm Going Home at Woodstock in 1969,we all have wanted to learn to play fast,it comes with the territory unless you're David Gilmour. I think Asia made a great choice with Sam,and he fits like a glove. I can tell because Asia looked pretty happy with him and in the end that's all that matters.
    Well said, Mr. Kelly. Sam was recommended by Paul Gilbert, an ace guitarist himself. I'm sure that Paul wouldn't have suggested Sam if he didn't feel that Sam was right for the job.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    I think John sees Asia as the "day job" and UK as the "fun band"
    The idea that Wetton really wants to make prog, but has sold his soul to make AOR in Asia is a nonsense. (I'm not saying you're saying that, Rand, but it's an idea that seems to come up in Asia discussion.) Wetton (as Downes) likes this sort of music. This is where his heart lies, more than prog. Given no monetary constraints, no concerns over 'hits', Wetton would still be doing much the same music.

    Henry
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    The idea that Wetton really wants to make prog, but has sold his soul to make AOR in Asia is a nonsense. (I'm not saying you're saying that, Rand, but it's an idea that seems to come up in Asia discussion.) Wetton (as Downes) likes this sort of music. This is where his heart lies, more than prog. Given no monetary constraints, no concerns over 'hits', Wetton would still be doing much the same music.

    Henry
    I think that Scott said it.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    The idea that Wetton really wants to make prog, but has sold his soul to make AOR in Asia is a nonsense. (I'm not saying you're saying that, Rand, but it's an idea that seems to come up in Asia discussion.) Wetton (as Downes) likes this sort of music. This is where his heart lies, more than prog. Given no monetary constraints, no concerns over 'hits', Wetton would still be doing much the same music.

    Henry
    I agree with you Henry,I didn't say that. lol In fact,I knew he was eschewing prog when I heard Caught In The Crossfire and even before that on UK-Danger Money with Nothing To Lose. I could see the writing on the wall. John likes classy poprock no doubt. I love the Asia albums he's on. Even Astra. I was really looking forward to hearing why they hired Mandy Meyer,but he was mixed so low, I really couldn't get a read on the guy. Did anyone get to see him play live with them,or did he at all?

  14. #39
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    I think that Scott said it.
    I said nothing of the sort. I never said that Wetton really wants to do prog - quite the opposite, really.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  15. #40
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    I was really looking forward to hearing why they hired Mandy Meyer,but he was mixed so low, I really couldn't get a read on the guy. Did anyone get to see him play live with them,or did he at all?
    I don't believe Meyer played any gigs with them.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #41
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    I think you're right because none of the YT vids show him with them. Maybe that would be a good question for Geoff Downes,since he seems to be the leader of that band. Second thought,that's probably the last thing he would want to divulge. So Astra had no supporting tour......no wonder it didn't do very well in sales. I also imagine a lot of Steve Howe Superfans may have elected not to purchase once they discovered his absence.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    The idea that Wetton really wants to make prog, but has sold his soul to make AOR in Asia is a nonsense. (I'm not saying you're saying that, Rand, but it's an idea that seems to come up in Asia discussion.) Wetton (as Downes) likes this sort of music. This is where his heart lies, more than prog. Given no monetary constraints, no concerns over 'hits', Wetton would still be doing much the same music.
    Yep, that's my take as well. I think Wetton does the UK and KC stuff because he genuinely thinks it's good music, and he can make an extra buck here or there doing it. But given his druthers, the sort of music he makes with Downes in Asia is "closer to the heart", so to speak. His solo albums ably bear this out.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    Yep, that's my take as well. I think Wetton does the UK and KC stuff because he genuinely thinks it's good music, and he can make an extra buck here or there doing it. But given his druthers, the sort of music he makes with Downes in Asia is "closer to the heart", so to speak. His solo albums ably bear this out.
    We're prog fans, so we all love prog. But I think some of the musicians we love only got into prog by accident, because that was a popular genre of the time. They are musicians first, who sometimes work (or have worked) in prog.

    Henry
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    We're prog fans, so we all love prog. But I think some of the musicians we love only got into prog by accident, because that was a popular genre of the time. They are musicians first, who sometimes work (or have worked) in prog.
    True. In Wetton's case he's even shown flashes of downright contempt for prog and its fans (I'm thinking of his "I'll give you fucking prog!" rant at Progfest.) Though he does seem to have been friendlier toward it in recent years. I wonder if part of getting sober involved making peace with that part of his past.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    We're prog fans, so we all love prog. But I think some of the musicians we love only got into prog by accident, because that was a popular genre of the time. They are musicians first, who sometimes work (or have worked) in prog.

    Henry
    Yep, let's not forget that most of the original prog musicians grew up listening to the Beatles, Elvis, and other pop-oriented artists. When they turn to a more song-based style, it's hardly abandoning their core values.

    It has always fascinated me that the stylistic taste of many fans is much narrower than the tastes of the artists they admire.
    The Mighty Megalosaurus
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  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    I agree 100% with this. Sam was hired by these 3 guys,not only to replace the absent Steve Howe,but also to play guitar in his own style;even while playing the Howe melodies. I never second guess why a band I like asks somebody to be in their band. I have always trusted them from sheer respect of their integrity and musicianship that they know what they're doing and who am I to ? it. I don't see any flaws in Sam Coulson at all. He's doing pretty damn good considering it's his first gig,which just happens to a huge outdoor festival. I think his use of a Charvel solid body might change the sound a bit,but change is what it's all about really. Nobody could actually expect them to desire a Howe clone could they? He did the job he was hired to do and he did it very well as I heard it. I'm glad he didn't try and play the "Country chicken pickin'" stuff in Sole Survivor. This kid's into melodic sustain and I dig it. I will most likely want to get Valkyrie when it comes out. As far as his fast runs,c'mon since Alvin Lee came out blasting I'm Going Home at Woodstock in 1969,we all have wanted to learn to play fast,it comes with the territory unless you're David Gilmour. I think Asia made a great choice with Sam,and he fits like a glove. I can tell because Asia looked pretty happy with him and in the end that's all that matters.
    That's great. Most bands would kill for this kind of uncritical reception. It's all good, all the time.
    The Mighty Megalosaurus
    Tree Pusher, WESAYSO Corp.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    True. In Wetton's case he's even shown flashes of downright contempt for prog and its fans (I'm thinking of his "I'll give you fucking prog!" rant at Progfest.) Though he does seem to have been friendlier toward it in recent years. I wonder if part of getting sober involved making peace with that part of his past.
    Being sober generally reduces the number of on-stage rants musicians are liable to make.

    I don't think Wetton is antipathetic to prog. I think he genuinely likes making music at the proggier end of AOR (or the AORier end of prog). He's certainly done more to embrace his Crimson/UK past in live performance. But, in his heart, I think he wants to be Brian Wilson, not Steven Wilson.

    Henry
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    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by NotTheMama View Post
    It has always fascinated me that the stylistic taste of many fans is much narrower than the tastes of the artists they admire.
    So, NotTheMama, I have to ask: are you actually a megalosaurus? Is that profile picture accurate?

    Henry

    PS: Mine is. That is exactly what I look like.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Being sober generally reduces the number of on-stage rants musicians are liable to make.

    I don't think Wetton is antipathetic to prog. I think he genuinely likes making music at the proggier end of AOR (or the AORier end of prog). He's certainly done more to embrace his Crimson/UK past in live performance. But, in his heart, I think he wants to be Brian Wilson, not Steven Wilson.

    Henry
    Sure seemed for awhile that he would rather be Ann Wilson.

  25. #50
    LOL.

    H
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