Mick Pointer was terrible

[devoidzer0]

I was listening to the Marillion Early Stages live box set on Spotify and was struck by just how god-awful Mick Pointer's drumming was on the earliest show (Glasgow, September '82). He had a terrible sense of time, was all over the place tempo-wise, very sloppy, and unable to execute the most rudimentary pattern smoothly (everything sounded herky-jerky). For some reason, for the next show in the set (December 30th of '82 at the Marquee - just three months later), he sounded much better in all areas, though still well below average.

I wonder why Mick decided to start a neo-progressive rock band, seeing as how the style requires more skill than your average rock gig, which he clearly didn't have. Drums are the backbone of a band and are supposed to hold everything together. His playing did just the opposite (the songs seemed on the verge of collapse at any given moment) and his ability fell very far short of the required mark. I'm thankful that he founded the band and all (because of what they went on to achieve), but if he hadn't done so would Mick Pointer even be a footnote in prog history?

I haven't delved into Arena (no real desire to), but please tell me his playing in that band doesn't sound anything like it did in the early '80s. I don't think I could handle that.

[SteveSly]

I
I haven't delved into Arena (no real desire to), but please tell me his playing in that band doesn't sound anything like it did in the early '80s. I don't think I could handle that.

I have never had the chance to see Arena live, but on the albums he appears to have improved a lot over the years.

Steve Sly

[Rufus]

Arena for me surpassed the early Marillion stuff !

[Chuck AzEee!]

Mick's drumming might not be up to the level of the greats that influenced him, but his drumming has become far more serviceable than the awful drumming of Marillion's earlier works. Arena seemed to take on the "progressive" arena-rock that Marillion foresook after Season's End.

[JKL2000]

Also, there's lots of "decent" neo-prog where the drumming is far from stellar. Thought I won't disagree that great drumming helps a lot.

[Progatron]

When I bought that Early Stages box, one of the first things I noted in my review was how interesting it was to hear the band's confidence grow in their playing as the shows go on. Once Mosley joined they jumped in quality by leaps and bounds. It's painfully obvious just how much of a difference he made from Mick. That being said, the Arena albums are great - I like every one of them!

[Digital_Man]

I saw an interview with Fish somewhere where he said something like "Mick Pointer? Crap drummer. Mike Portnoy is great though" or something to that effect. So even Fish thought he was bad. Glad to hear he improved.

[Yanks2014]

Mick's playing on the first album is fairly simplistic, guess it was a matter of his own limitations. The live music I've heard from that era of Marillion is on the live DVD, but that show is at the end of the tour, really the very end of his tenure in the band. By that point he seemed at least serviceable in a live setting. Nice improvement when Mosely joined. Still love "Script", even with Pointer on there.

[Jeremy Bender]

We could also start a thread called Brian Devoil was/is terrible. I love the Twelfth Night stuff with Geoff Mann (RIP), but Devoil sounds like he's a hair metal drummer who wandered in to the wrong band.

Marillion had a revolving door for the drummer's spot for a while, it's obviously worked out with Ian Mosley.

[devoidzer0]

On the band introductions for the '82 Marquee show on Early Stages, Fish sarcastically announces, "..and the IRREPLACEABLE Mick Pointer!" I wonder how soon after that gig he was let go.. any prog historians know? It's not on the Wiki page.

I agree, once they settled on Ian Mosley they found the perfect Marillion drummer. So understated, but so much finesse and such an exquisite sense of time. The way he totally locked in with Pete's bass was something to behold ("Cinderella Search" is a great example). He makes it look effortless, too (looks almost bored when he's playing, heh). He gave the band a new dimension and was the missing piece that completed the Marillion sound. A match made in prog heaven.

[moecurlythanu]

The band were told to fire Mick or lose the contract with EMI, iirc.

[Rufus]

Where Pointer does deserve some credit is in the song writing department ! He & Nolan have wrote some stellar music together !

[arabicadabra]

> So understated, but so much finesse and such an exquisite sense of time. <

I'll agree with all of this, but as someone who has attempted to play along with The Thieving Magpie album, there are some wild shifts in tempos mid-verse or chorus that I'll chalk up to the excitement of playing live - just want to point out that they are there. It is equally true that you can hear his time be dead on playing some Live Hackett stuff from the early 80s - so those guns in the tempo could be "the band's starting to drag a bit, let's step on the pedal". As for live tempo fluctuations, I have LOADS of experience .

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Thankfully he gathered the ability to play competently in Arena. None of those albums I'd say the drumming is below par (even Songs From...and Pride). Unlike Script...where the drumming is certainly the worst thing about the album (though I still love it).

[The Czar]

What all of you are failing to point out, is that Fish is the vocal equal to Mick Pointer.
I love the Fish era, but if stones must be thrown, then I think Fish needs a few his way too.
I think his drumming on the first album is good and Garden Party needs that quirky feel in the drums.
Sure Ian is a better drummer, but Mick held his own on that first album.

[ThomasKDye]

Yeah, if I have any complaints about Arena, it's their transition from solid neo-prog to bombastic pseudo-Queensryche with choirs. The drumming always seemed fine to me.

[Rufus]

Wasnt Rothery 's job also at risk in the early days ? There was even a rumour Hackett was going to replace him at one point !

[Nov]

Ah yes - Mick Pointer, the John Mayhew (RIP) of Marillion.

Except to say that the drumming on Trespass is far better then the drumming on Script

Having a decent drummer is so important to making prog rock flow and feel genuine and organic (eg Bruford, Collins, Peart, Palmer, etc). The exception I guess, is/was Nick Mason - a very pedestrian drummer but totally fit for purpose in Pink Floyd.

It's probably one of the reasons I've always preferred bands such as Spock's Beard and The Flower Kings to the 80s prog bands. NDV and most of the TFK drummers have been exceptional.

[Trane]

Never saw Marillion or heard live stuff from Pointer... I only got to see them after he was replaced...

But on the studio stuff, jhe didn't sound that bad... nothing great, but he didn't deface Script

Arena for me never surpassed the early Ramones stuff !

Fixed

Also, there's lots of "decent" neo-prog where the drumming is far from stellar. Thought I won't disagree that great drumming helps a lot.

Yeah, I must say I was only wayayayay too happy back then, that albums like Script or the Wake even existed to actually start nitpicking on the drumming or anything alse...

[Nearfest2]

I have never had the chance to see Arena live, but on the albums he appears to have improved a lot over the years.

Steve Sly

Mick isn't the issue with Arena live. Awful live band.

[Trane]

Mick isn't the issue with Arena live. Awful live band.

The pointer is that Mick was terrible

yeah, I know... toooooooooooo easyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

[JKL2000]

Pointer was a dog!

[Sean]

It's getting to the point....

[Jimmy Giant]

I saw Marillion in Syracuse on their first tour (1983?). However, I knew nothing of them before going to see them. They were sold as Floyd/Genesis/Yes friendly material so we went. To say I was shocked with the other dozen people in the room is putting it mildly. I can't comment on the musicianship as I ate mushrooms twice that night. Suffice it to say, it was an amazing show! Especially when Fish walked out on stage. Totally wasn't prepared for that!

I saw Arena at ROSfest and I loved the show. I can't really remember the particulars, but it all sounded fine to me. ...and no mushrooms were digested during that set!

[Trane]

It's getting to the point....

to the point.jpg

At least Savoy Brown did...