Gaza

[100423]

I regret not being able to see Gaza when they came through town recently as they have now broken up.
Car Bomb is, uh, the bomb...

[polmico]

All right death growl fans, I posted about Fantomas earlier and just posted about them in Just Eric's new thread, what do you think of these extreme vox:



A lot of the things y'all cited about those previous bands are true here. And, yes, that is Bozzio on drums. Patton doesn't growl, but his vox are extreme and room-clearing.

[Just Eric]

A lot of the things y'all cited about those previous bands are true here. And, yes, that is Bozzio on drums. Patton doesn't growl, but his vox are extreme and room-clearing.

Patton is brilliant with his voice, both clean and extreme. While I've never seen him solo or with any of his own groups, he has guested at several shows I've attended, the most recent Dillinger Escape Plan. Being in San Francisco certainly has its perks!

[Scrotum Scissor]

Patton is awesome allround, but he's (luckily) not really growling. Love Fantomas all the same.

[polmico]

No, Patton's not growling, but those are "extreme" vocals.

How about other odd vocal stylings? Zappa's talk/rant thing on songs like "Dangerous Kitchen."

Tom Waits' cookie monster growling?

Beefheart's Howlin' Wolf to his screetch to his spoken word.

I guess what I'm getting at is: Do you guys just like growling or are there other unconventional vocalizations that you enjoy?

Growling does one thing well: aggression. It fits the music. It's angry, and it can be awesome.

Waits, Patton, Beefheart, Zappa--it fits the music and is awesome, too.

[Just Eric]

No, Patton's not growling, but those are "extreme" vocals.

How about other odd vocal stylings? Zappa's talk/rant thing on songs like "Dangerous Kitchen."

Tom Waits' cookie monster growling?

Beefheart's Howlin' Wolf to his screetch to his spoken word.

I guess what I'm getting at is: Do you guys just like growling or are there other unconventional vocalizations that you enjoy?

Growling does one thing well: aggression. It fits the music. It's angry, and it can be awesome.

Waits, Patton, Beefheart, Zappa--it fits the music and is awesome, too.

Personally, I like all vocal styles as long as the sound/style fits with the music.

[Jefferson James]

I found the Gaza song interesting, specifically the frenzied, odd-time riffing and unconventional structure; kudos and propers to the writers, sorry to hear the band broke up.

I felt absolutely no connection to the music other than curiosity; as for emotion? None whatsoever. This relentlessly driving composition definitely has its merits and I respect the abilities of the musicians, but that's where it ends for me. It's kind of like too much of a good thing, perhaps; I am curious if repeated listens will reveal something I might connect with on an emotional level.

I guarantee if I were 16 again I would be all over this, but at 50 it's too late for me to adapt; I am cursed with the need to hear conventional melodies, apparently, and, to a lesser extent, structures that make logical sense to me. I love unconventional structures but to maintain my interest it has to at least have some kind of "hook" (melodic or dissonant, just something that says "this is the point of this song") and, ideally, emotional resonance.

I'm gonna loop this tomorrow and see if the puzzle pieces come together for me after a dozen listens.

Chalkpie, thanks for this thread; one thing I love about PE is being turned on to stuff I'd never hear on my own, it's been awhile since I've seen anyone throw down a challenge like this. You, sir, rawk (said with a growl).

[100423]

I'm gonna loop this tomorrow and see if the puzzle pieces come together for me after a dozen listens.

I'd be a-feared to be around you tomorrow!

[100423]

Personally, I like all vocal styles as long as the sound/style fits with the music.

And that's the deal. There are lots of extreme songs that I can't imagine with clean vocals.
There are certainly 'extreme' vocalists that I prefer: Mikael Akerfeldt, Grutle Kjellson, Nils Frykdahl, Mike Patton, Jens Kidman, Adrian Kowanek...

[chalkpie]

Well with all honesty I think I could never enjoy that
Theoretically it could have been an extremely promising combination - The result to my ears is always bobast pompous and mostly even kitch like the worst of both worlds
I know these are strong extreme statements but that is my ongoing impression from nearly every attempt I heard that tried to marry metal with symphonic rock
oh and to be clear I do love my old school symphonic rock ala Yes Genesis KC etc. and I do love some 90's metal like Pantera Sapultura etc. etc.

First we need to work on Cardiacs, sir, then we'll get around to the kitschy metal bands

Baby steps....

[chalkpie]

I found the Gaza song interesting, specifically the frenzied, odd-time riffing and unconventional structure; kudos and propers to the writers, sorry to hear the band broke up.

I felt absolutely no connection to the music other than curiosity; as for emotion? None whatsoever. This relentlessly driving composition definitely has its merits and I respect the abilities of the musicians, but that's where it ends for me. It's kind of like too much of a good thing, perhaps; I am curious if repeated listens will reveal something I might connect with on an emotional level.

I guarantee if I were 16 again I would be all over this, but at 50 it's too late for me to adapt; I am cursed with the need to hear conventional melodies, apparently, and, to a lesser extent, structures that make logical sense to me. I love unconventional structures but to maintain my interest it has to at least have some kind of "hook" (melodic or dissonant, just something that says "this is the point of this song") and, ideally, emotional resonance.

I'm gonna loop this tomorrow and see if the puzzle pieces come together for me after a dozen listens.

Chalkpie, thanks for this thread; one thing I love about PE is being turned on to stuff I'd never hear on my own, it's been awhile since I've seen anyone throw down a challenge like this. You, sir, rawk (said with a growl).

My pleasure friend. Thanks for taking the time to check it out. Just trying to spread the love and expand some musical horizons.

I've said this many times before - don't think of the vocals as a "voice" per se - I know that sounds a bit odd - but just let it pervade the music as another instrument (albeit one with words). Also, think what clean vocals would sound like with that ferocious musical accompaniment, and you begin to realize that it would be akin to eating the best steak of your life drowned in cheap ketchup. Or something like that

[Just Eric]

The Heliopolis Guy said:

I guarantee if I were 16 again I would be all over this, but at 50 it's too late for me to adapt; I am cursed with the need to hear conventional melodies, apparently, and, to a lesser extent, structures that make logical sense to me. I love unconventional structures but to maintain my interest it has to at least have some kind of "hook" (melodic or dissonant, just something that says "this is the point of this song") and, ideally, emotional resonance.

I was the same way, a melody whore or hook-monger. Little by little I became more interested in the complex, difficult parts of music, the non-traditional, out of standard sounds and techniques.... hence my love of Prog - which mostly has melody AND the non-traditional, etc. Soon I became more interested in the non-traditional aspect and less so in the melody. Before I knew it, melody was way way way down the list of things I look for and the less of it the better. Many of the genres under the Extreme Metal umbrella emphasize dissonance, rhythm, aggression, and other oddities over melody. Having spent the last five or so years fully immersed in Extreme Metal I feel as comfortable with the genres as I do Prog or any of my other favorites. And Melody, when appropriate, is still a great thing.

As for the extreme vocals, Frank puts it best, "don't think of the vocals as a "voice" per se... but just let it pervade the music as another instrument." In fact, I suck at lyrics, can't remember and have no interest in them either, primarily because I consider the voice just another sound in the mix. This also allowed me to transition to enjoy a variety of styles much easier, I didn't have to "let go" of the lyrics.

[chalkpie]

Frank - we must be peas in a pod. Everything you stated above is exactly how I feel, including sudden rushes of nausea upon hearing cheesy Prog vocals! Keep up the good work!

Man, do I feel sorry for you Eric

Hey - where in the snail's fudge is Kerman? It's not the same without him. Did he "quit" PE again? Shame if he did.

[Udi Koomran]

Here is one of the only albums that lives up to fulfill "Progressive Metal "
I L O V E that album

[chalkpie]

Here is one of the only albums that lives up to fulfill "Progressive Metal "
I L O V E that album

Yeah, I remember you loving this one. I remember checking some of it (all?) on YT after you said it and of course loving it. Fred is an unsung hero, except in the metal/Meshuggah underground. I'm gonna check those out again. Udi - are you on Spotify? If not, the BEST $10 I spend every month no question. It has totally opened up my world - the number of classical albums is beyond comprehension. You can basically "own" the best classical, jazz, etc. libraries imaginable. That would be impossible in a person's lifetime anyway, but the dirty work has been done for us.

They have complete libraries to Gaza, Crowpath, Meshuggah, Tull, Yes, National Health (not really all of it, but the 2 classic studio works), Hatfield, etc etc etc. In classical, right now I am checking out a bunch of Scandinavian composers that I know you would love, or at least some of it. Spotify has all of these obscure composers, and that door is opened immediately. All you need is a pair of decent headphones, a beverage of choice (optional), buzz of choice (optional), and time (not optional). I smell an Italian prog binge coming on soon, but I'm immersed in this Cardiacs, Scandinavian composition (going HEAVY with Sibelius), metal (you know what kind), and no RIO/symph/Prog, but garlic is in the air.

[chalkpie]

ps - I interrupt this program to state that although Gaza is an incredible talent, the best band to ever walk the face of the Moon is Cardiacs. OK, proceed accordingly....

[Udi Koomran]

garlic is in the air.

Frankie you rule !

[Udi Koomran]

Frankie here is another scorcher
Brutal ? Progressive ? - you bet they even have a track titled Janick Top !!

[spellbound]

I liked the Gaza piece. Had not heard them before. Only problem I had was zero comprehension of the vocals. This is not a complaint about the vocal style. I have no problem with the growls. The song title intrigued me. But if the singer was giving instructions as to how to make a slut, something was lost in the translation. I've been to Utah, as have my string beans, and I know they speak English there. So what is Gaza saying? Other than that, damn good song. I'll spin it again.

[chalkpie]

Slutmaker lyrics:

"Sluts fuck better." she said to me.
"So what's with this Scarlet Letter shit?
There's no A on your chest.
Dumber than a bag of Hatebreed fans.
There isn't enough medicine in the world for my headache.
But if you'd prefer go ahead and sit on your holy hands and wait for you're stuck up 16th century rapture.
A little skin and you'd fuck me just like anyone else would.
As we head ignorance first into Armageddon...
See you in hell.
God Damn Your Eyes.

[chalkpie]

Frankie here is another scorcher
Brutal ? Progressive ? - you bet they even have a track titled Janick Top !!

This is unbelievable. Mother Mary and Joseph where has this been all my life? Every nano-second has a purpose. This is a game changer.

[Udi Koomran]

This is unbelievable. Mother Mary and Joseph where has this been all my life? Every nano-second has a purpose. This is a game changer.

Web Of Mimicry - Museum Without Walls ( Trey Spruance's website )
"In the torrent of "innovative" death/grind bands these days, it can be hard to find something that's actually heavy and lacks really annoying pretensions. Asterisk is one of those rare bands that varies what they do in order to pummel you, and for no other reason. Owing more sound-wise to the legendary, totally fucked, over-the-top maniacism of Switzerland's overlooked Fear of God than they do to the more current "innovative" sound of Berklee School of Music clowns trying to sound like Melt Banana, Asterisk has produced a masterpiece of 21st Century aggression. There's a little bit of compli-core, but it rarely sounds damningly contrived. No, any fan of ultra pummel shouldn't hesitate. Anyone with ears craving the end of the world can get a good fix with Asterisk."

[Udi Koomran]

Finally Frank Here is my ultimate contribution to this thread Secret Chief 3 in disguise as Holy Vehm
Mimicry describes Holy Vehm as an "ultra-death metal grind band". The band features John Merryman of Cephalic Carnage on drums, Jesse Quattro, Jessica Kinney, and Unhuman on vocals, and Trey Spruance (credited as "The Enemy") on bass, guitar and sampling. According to Spruance, the band's music "employs Boulez-ish atonal serialism, played in dastgah tunings".So far Holy Vehm have only released two songs on Book of Horizons but Spruance announced in a 2008 interview that he plans to release a full-length Holy Vehm album for The End Records.

[Udi Koomran]

Udi - are you on Spotify? If not, the BEST $10 I spend every month no question. It has totally opened up my world - the number of classical albums is beyond comprehension. You can basically "own" the best classical, jazz, etc. libraries imaginable. That would be impossible in a person's lifetime anyway, but the dirty work has been done for us. .

Well I looked it up but got:"Not yet available in your country."
But I still have trouble plowing through my 120 gig ipod anyway...
How is this different from say Youtube ?

[Scott Bails]

The Heliopolis Guy said:
I was the same way, a melody whore or hook-monger. Little by little I became more interested in the complex, difficult parts of music, the non-traditional, out of standard sounds and techniques.... hence my love of Prog - which mostly has melody AND the non-traditional, etc. Soon I became more interested in the non-traditional aspect and less so in the melody. Before I knew it, melody was way way way down the list of things I look for and the less of it the better. Many of the genres under the Extreme Metal umbrella emphasize dissonance, rhythm, aggression, and other oddities over melody.

See, there's my problem with the whole Doom/Death/Extreme/etc. Metal thing. I really don't care about aggression, etc. - if there's no melody, you're never going to get me interested in it. Call it closed-minded or whatever. I've checked some of it out (though not the YouTubes you posted for me, chalkpie - I'll get to them), and it's just not at all for me. I can't imagine that I'd ever have a reason to listen to this.

That's not making a statement about those who love this stuff. It's just not for me. I don't understand it, don't understand how others could possibly enjoy it. To me, it's just noise. I guess I've become my father!

As for the extreme vocals, Frank puts it best, "don't think of the vocals as a "voice" per se... but just let it pervade the music as another instrument." In fact, I suck at lyrics, can't remember and have no interest in them either, primarily because I consider the voice just another sound in the mix. This also allowed me to transition to enjoy a variety of styles much easier, I didn't have to "let go" of the lyrics.

Yeah, I can't do this. For me, the voice isn't an instrument - it's a voice, which is used to communicate lyrics. I'm fine with scat and "la-las," but extreme vocals and modern rap do absolutely nothing for me.

And, again, I'm not shitting on the thread at all - I mean no disrespect. In a way, I'm jealous of those who love this stuff - sounds like there's a lot to offer.

I'm just more of a "Moon Safari guy" than I am a "Meshuggah guy."