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Thread: KISS

  1. #1

    KISS

    Was a fan but it all went pear shaped with Dynasty!

    Fire away !

  2. #2
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Rufus, you have just created a MONSTER . Now Gruno is gonna post a barrage of Kiss memorabilia, and Guitar Geek is gonna write 5 or 6 essays on Kiss.

    I'm kidding around guys. I really enjoy Guitar Geek's posts. The guy is a walking, talking, Rock & Roll encyclopedia.

    You don't wanna know what I think about Kiss .

  4. #4
    Ace's solo album was the best Kiss record.

    I file them under guilty pleasure. Not something I turn to often, but when I do, I dig it.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Rufus, you have just created a MONSTER . Now Gruno is gonna post a barrage of Kiss memorabilia, and Guitar Geek is gonna write 5 or 6 essays on Kiss.
    .
    Don't forget me and Gruno arguing about the kurrent Kiss lineup. And hopefully, Phideaux (who I know is also a Kiss supporter) might voice his opinion.

    All seriousness aside, I still love what this band did in the 70's and very early 80's. Hell, even the rest of the 80's, there were a gaggle of really good songs here and there, things like I've Had Enough (Into The Fire), Heaven's On Fire, and Tears Are Falling. Hell, I even like Lick It Up (there's just something too cool about the way Paul belts out the line "It ain't a crime to be good to yourself!"). I still have no idea what we're supposed to lick up, and to tell you the truth, I think this might be the definition of "You don't want to know!".

    Dynasty and Unmasked both get panned without mercy in some quarters (generally those where the entire catalog isn't getting panned), but I still dig both albums. Those are regarded as the "Disco Kiss" records, but there's really only one "disco" song, I Was Made For Loving You, and actually in the context of Dynasty, I actually like that song. And it's cool to hear so many Ace songs on one album (and I definitely prefer his version of 2000 Man over the Stones recording).

    I think Unmasked was about the third or fourth Kiss album I owned (Double Platinum, Dressed To Kill and Alive II were my first albums...I actually had Alive II on 8-track!). I remember borrowing it from the library and copying it onto cassette with our new home stereo (first one we had with the cassette built into the receiver), so that must have been about 81 or 82, already.

    Yeah, it has a glossier, poppy sound (I've heard it described as a "power pop" album), but it's got lots of good songs on it. I can live without Shandi (especially after discovering the nature of the song's origins), but the rest of the album is pretty cool. I used to hate Torpedo Girl, but lately I've rather liked it, even playing it on my show (one time it segued out of Köhntarkösz Pt.2). And I also really dig Anton Fig's drumming on this record.

    As for the solo albums, I still haven't gotten Paul or Peter's records on CD (I've got them on LP and cassette, but haven't played them in ages), but Ace's and Gene's I still think are great. I love the way Gene's kicks off with that horror movie orchestra score intro and then inexplicably segues into Radioactive. Brilliant!
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 05-26-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  6. #6
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Don't forget me and Gruno arguing about the kurrent Kiss lineup.
    Round 2...?

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Hell, I even like Lick It Up (there's just something too cool about the way Paul belts out the line "It's not a crime to begin to yourself!").
    To get nit-picky, the actual lyric:

    "It ain't a crime to be good to yourself"

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    Since you brought it up, Guitar Geek:what is Shandi about?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Since you brought it up, Guitar Geek:what is Shandi about?
    Well, it's not so much what it's about so much as how it was written. I guess this is a common practice with Paul Stanley, but he explained that he'll often times hear a song and like it enough, that he writes his own version of it, as it were. I think he's used the example of Firehouse being inspired by a song by The Move called Fire Brigade. And I know he said that Hard Luck Woman was inspired by Rod Stewart's Maggie May. I bet there's a bunch of songs on the first few Kiss albums that were based on songs by The Move, Slade, The Who, etc. And I've always noticed a slight resemblance between Detroit Rock City and Boys Are Back In Town.

    Anyhow, so in the case of Shandi, the inspiration was apparently a Bruce Springsteen song called Sandy.

  9. #9
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I can live without Shandi (especially after discovering the nature of the song's origins)
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Anyhow, so in the case of Shandi, the inspiration was apparently a Bruce Springsteen song called Sandy.
    How does the origin/inspiration of the song affect your view on it??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    How does the origin/inspiration of the song affect your view on it??
    The Boss and Kiss shouldn't mix.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Progtopia View Post
    Ace's solo album was the best Kiss record.

    I file them under guilty pleasure. Not something I turn to often, but when I do, I dig it.
    I'm guessing you would have to actually listen to them to know that.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    How does the origin/inspiration of the song affect your view on it??
    Because Sandy is a much, much, much better song than Shandi. To learn that Paul heard the Springsteen song and thought to himself "I should do a song like that" or whatever his thought process was, and the result was Shandi, strikes me as a bit ridiculous. That he didn't have the presence of mind to realize that song should have been saved for a solo record or whatever, is mind-boggling to me. Then again, Gene didn't have the presence of mind to realize that Kiss shouldn't have recorded She's So European either (though I actually like She's So European, I think that's a pretty good song).

    I was gonna say that I tend to feel Kiss weren't very good with the ballads, but then I remembered Beth (which isn't even really a Kiss track anyway), Great Expectations, Hard Luck Woman, and A World Without Heroes. So at least up through Music From The Elder, that's not too bad a track record.

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    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    How does the origin/inspiration of the song affect your view on it??

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Because Sandy is a much, much, much better song than Shandi.
    Really? You are basing it off of that? So if someone wants to write a song that was inspired by another song, that new song must be better than the one it was inspired by??

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I was gonna say that I tend to feel Kiss weren't very good with the ballads, but then I remembered Beth (which isn't even really a Kiss track anyway), Great Expectations, Hard Luck Woman, and A World Without Heroes. So at least up through Music From The Elder, that's not too bad a track record.
    They have a pretty good track record of ballads continuing into their career with "I Still Love You", "Reason To Live", "A Million To One", and "Forever".

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Really? You are basing it off of that? So if someone wants to write a song that was inspired by another song, that new song must be better than the one it was inspired by??



    They have a pretty good track record of ballads continuing into their career with "I Still Love You", "Reason To Live", "A Million To One", and "Forever".
    Forgot about I Still Love You. Don't know if I've ever heard A Million To One, but Reason To Live and Forever I don't think were very good. Didn't Michael Bolton co-write Forever?

  15. #15
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Yes, Michael Bolton (who was in Blackjack with Bruce Kulick) had a co-write. Bolton has sung that song at some of his shows.

  16. #16
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Sure Know Something

    As for ballads, you also forgot "Sure Know Something"




  17. #17
    Member Cuz's Avatar
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    As a kid growing up in the 70s, I was an absolute Kiss fanatic. All these years later (I'm 47 now) here is where I stand:

    70s Kiss was great. Not brilliant or ground breaking (musically) but a helluva lot of fun. Debut album through Dynasty are great. Unmasked is weak, but The Elder, though odd, is pretty good.

    For the most part, 80s Kiss sucks. When you start to imitate those who were originally influenced by you, that's never a good thing.

    Kiss will always be a part of my musical landscape, and being a Kiss fan as a kid was great - a cool mix of rock n roll and comics. I haven't heard the latest Kiss record, but the word is that it's not too bad.

    As far as the solo albums go, Ace's is the best, Peter's is the worst, Paul's is the most Kiss-like, and Gene's is weird. Haven't heard Gene's in a long time, would like to hear that again.

  18. #18
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Then again, Gene didn't have the presence of mind to realize that Kiss shouldn't have recorded She's So European either (though I actually like She's So European, I think that's a pretty good song.
    I'm weird... I like that one and "I Was Made For Loving You," but I can't get into the other hits. Maybe it's my own quirky need for a band to go outside their box that makes those songs interesting to me.

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    Inspired by this thread, I pulled on Creatures Of The Night Last night. That is one heavy motherfucker of an album. Eric Carr sounds like he is hitting tanks. I wish this album would've sold more. Not a big fan of the non-makeup years. Btw, does anyone know how the members of Kiss got hooked up with Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance?

  20. #20
    Member eporter66's Avatar
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    Huge 70's KISS fan. I really like the songs on those early albums. Combine that with the makeup, costumes and I was hooked. I still love Ace's guitar playing, heavy lyrical solos. I still love to crank up KISS. I saw them on the Dynasty tour in Springfield Ma, but once I heard Unmasked my interest began to wane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eporter66 View Post
    Huge 70's KISS fan. I really like the songs on those early albums. Combine that with the makeup, costumes and I was hooked. I still love Ace's guitar playing, heavy lyrical solos. I still love to crank up KISS. I saw them on the Dynasty tour in Springfield Ma, but once I heard Unmasked my interest began to wane.
    You should get Creatures Of The Night, if you can find it. It's so heavy.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    does anyone know how the members of Kiss got hooked up with Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance?
    Probably through their record company or management. I believe Bryan Adams and Jim Vallance were doing the "professional songwriter" thing (or whatever you want to call it), ie writing songs for other people to sing. This typically meant sending demos around to record labels, management firms or what-have-ya, with the intention of the songs being passed to this or that performer. In this instance, through whichever means, a couple demos fell into the hands of Gene Simmons, who made his own contributions and turned the two songs into Rock And Roll Hell and War Machine. I believe I read that Gene never actually "collaborated", in the normal sense of the word, with Bryan or Jim, he just took their demos and re-worked them to suit his requirements. Sort of an inverse of the "song doctor" thing that came into prominence later in the 80's (and which helped ruined mainstream rock music, as far as I'm concerned).

    Creatures Of The Night is indeed a heavy album. That's the record they should have made after the Unmasked tour, not Music From The Elder. I wonder if Ace would have stayed in the group if they had done, instead of trying to "show the critics how intelligent Kiss can be" (as per Bob Ezrin's comment).

  23. #23
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eporter66 View Post
    Huge 70's KISS fan. I really like the songs on those early albums. Combine that with the makeup, costumes and I was hooked. I still love Ace's guitar playing, heavy lyrical solos. I still love to crank up KISS. I saw them on the Dynasty tour in Springfield Ma, but once I heard Unmasked my interest began to wane.
    A couple of weeks ago, over the course of about 4 days, I listened to the first KISS albums (KISS-Dynasty) in order. Something I only seem to do once every decade. It was fun!

  24. #24
    I was forced to cover the song "Deuce" when I was in a band in High School I sang it and always pronounced it "she's worth a Douche!". All I could think was how badly I hated this band. What an incredible bit of moronic songwriting that was.

    Now that I'm old, I don't mind when my kids put on "I wanna Rock and roll all night" but that's the only Kiss song I ever hear anymore.
    I got nothin'

    ...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.

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    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Now that I'm old, I don't mind when my kids put on "I wanna Rock and roll all night" but that's the only Kiss song I ever hear anymore.
    I would be happy if I never hear that song again. One of the many I wish they would retire from the set list. Unfortunately it is always used as the closing of the show these days.

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