Thread: King Crimson News

  1. #1376
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Grenoble, France
    Posts
    1,266
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    King Crimson recently asked on Facebook for people to work on the merch table during the tour: https://www.facebook.com/kingcrimson...87819016033219 You need to already have a ticket, you don't get paid, you get an item of merchandise. The comments are (rightly!) excoriating them for being so cheap.
    There were similar appeals made on previous tours, with the same "deal" offered. But perhaps those appeals were made in a more confidential way and not on FB ?
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  2. #1377
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    The comments are (rightly!) excoriating them for being so cheap.
    It's been hard to get direct answers from detractors on Facebook, so I'll attempt a dialog here. Henry, in your opinion what is the alternative to "being so cheap?" They have their own merch team, plus whatever venue people, so they were looking for an hour's help just moving programs pre-show. What should have been offered in place of swag?

  3. #1378
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    It's been hard to get direct answers from detractors on Facebook, so I'll attempt a dialog here. Henry, in your opinion what is the alternative to "being so cheap?" They have their own merch team, plus whatever venue people, so they were looking for an hour's help just moving programs pre-show. What should have been offered in place of swag?
    If there is a job to do, that job should be appropriately recompensed. If they have everything covered with their own merch team and venue people, don't invent jobs.

    Whatever they do, be clear about the proposition (nothing I saw said "an hour's help just moving programs pre-show"), apologise if they communicate poorly and drop the whiny tone when people criticise them.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  4. #1379
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I for one can understand why they might get a bit "pissy", seeing how some folks called what they were doing "slave labor".

    Best of intentions and all that... They probably never thought it would get misinterpreted that way, and it's sad that we have to be so super cautious all the time nowadays because of social media dogpiling.
    People have been dogpiling and saying exaggerated things on social media for years. If someone(s) can't cope with that without getting pissy when doing the official social media for a band, maybe hand the social media over to someone with skin thicker than a piece of crepe paper?

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  5. #1380
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Kingdom of YHVH
    Posts
    2,761
    the band claims that there were some people willing to work for merch
    perhaps that is true, but why advertise for more like-minded volunteers if there were already ones volunteering?
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  6. #1381
    Member oilersfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Posts
    367
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    the band claims that there were some people willing to work for merch
    perhaps that is true, but why advertise for more like-minded volunteers if there were already ones volunteering?
    I think the idea was to make the offer to volunteer more 'open to all' and public rather than somewhat private as it has been in the past.

    Yep, the initial post on social media was poorly worded and gave off the wrong impression. They actually don't 'need' anyone to do this but, as some have mentioned, there are some who would rather sell merch for an hour in exchange for a t-shirt than pay $40 for it. As someone who has done this before (I did it primarily because I enjoyed it, plus I had to be at the venue early anyway and didn't want to wait outside...and I usually asked for a beer from the venue instead of a t-shirt from the band, which was only an issue once), I think it's a shame that nobody will be extended the opportunity to do so on the upcoming tour.

  7. #1382
    What was “pissy” about the band’s response? I thought it was factual and reasonable, but I certainly might have misread.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  8. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    (nothing I saw said "an hour's help just moving programs pre-show")
    The original request clearly stated "help selling programmes before the show" and "would need to arrive a little before doors open." Am I genius for inferring "an hour before showtime to sell programs" while so many others were assuming hours of hard labor? It was interesting how many, very many, people cited Fripps' history of fighting for fair payment as their reason for being aghast, rather than citing that history as a reason to not assume the worst.

    I said it there and I'll say it here: The band did nothing wrong in not assuming the worst of their fans (and expecting them to make the fuss they did). The "fans" decision to use whatever concise bit of information was offered to fill in the rest with the worst assumptions, and attack the band with everything from accusations of exploitation to threats to report them for labor violations and immigration fraud... it was just comical.

    Nevermind. I have great respect for you, and don't want to get into the same crap I did with others on Facebook here with you. But when I ask you what the alternative to "being so cheap" is and you tell me they should be "appropriately recompensed," I can assume I'm only going to get the same non-answers from you that I got there.

    People suggested the volunteers should get free tickets. Whenever I asked how that one person to get a free ticket should be selected? No answer. Except one guy who tried to tell me they should've offered the opportunity to their "10 biggest fans." When I asked him what that meant and how those fans would be determined, he called me a fanboy or something witty like that.

    People suggested they should be paid. When I asked what the pay for selling programs for around an hour should be, given that minimum wage is $7.25 although we all agree it should be $15? No answers, except one person who factored in travel expenses and parking and told me $80.

    Someone suggested to me "half-price ticket. easy solution" or something like that. When I asked her how they determine who gets the half price ticket? No response.

    I said something to this effect in a couple of places: "Buying a $100 ticket and then buying a $40 t-shirt, no problem. Buying a $100 ticket and then helping at the merch counter for a free t-shirt? Exploitation and slave labor."
    Again, no one stepped in to clarify.
    Last edited by jamesmanzi; 1 Week Ago at 10:08 AM.

  9. #1384
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    4209′30″N 7108′43″W
    Posts
    4,041
    The accusations of "slave labour" were almost certainly made on electronic devices made in a place where the working conditions are surely worse than what would be experienced by someone voluntarily selling tour programs for an hour.

  10. #1385
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    What was “pissy” about the band’s response? I thought it was factual and reasonable, but I certainly might have misread.
    You didn't. It wasn't pissy. The same people that made the assumption the original request was for hours of hard labor for exploitative compensation are the ones declaring the clarification as pissy. No surprise there. One of the more unsavory aspects of social media (and there are so many) is the opportunity that fans now have to attack the bands and musicians that they're "fans" of. As someone who follows Steven Wilson and Yes on Facebook, I can tell you, people love to shit on the bands they listen to. I would've expected better of Crimson fans, but instead they're just more eloquent in their trash talk.

  11. #1386
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    The accusations of "slave labour" were almost certainly made on electronic devices made in a place where the working conditions are surely worse than what would be experienced by someone voluntarily selling tour programs for an hour.
    Yep. The whole affair was a magical head trip thru the land of zero perspective.

  12. #1387
    Parrots ripped my flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    4209′30″N 7108′43″W
    Posts
    4,041
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    Yep. The whole affair was a magical head trip thru the land of zero perspective.
    Maybe we need a new verse to Suitable Grounds for the Blues.

  13. #1388
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    383
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    You didn't. It wasn't pissy. The same people that made the assumption the original request was for hours of hard labor for exploitative compensation are the ones declaring the clarification as pissy. No surprise there. One of the more unsavory aspects of social media (and there are so many) is the opportunity that fans now have to attack the bands and musicians that they're "fans" of. As someone who follows Steven Wilson and Yes on Facebook, I can tell you, people love to shit on the bands they listen to. I would've expected better of Crimson fans, but instead they're just more eloquent in their trash talk.
    Yep - I didn't find it pissy, whoever posted was just a bit annoyed at having to defend themselves from something they thought people might enjoy (and have previously). A decade ago I'd probably have offered to do that because it would be a fun change from normal concert routine. What is disappointing is people still whining about them asking for labor once they posted the clarification.

  14. #1389
    Member DrGoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    206
    The tour kicks off tonight, at the same venue that the hosted the friends and family show the night before last. Apparently REO Speedwagon played there last night or the crew might have caught a bit of a break. I will report on how long the queue is for tour programmes now that they are only available at the merch desk and how long the queues are for the toilets between CGT and KC.

  15. #1390
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    If there is a job to do, that job should be appropriately recompensed. If they have everything covered with their own merch team and venue people, don't invent jobs.

    Whatever they do, be clear about the proposition (nothing I saw said "an hour's help just moving programs pre-show"), apologise if they communicate poorly and drop the whiny tone when people criticise them.

    Henry



    this is a shit comment Henry.


    the Hackett organization has the same rollouts for every tour as well. face it, these touring events and are cottage self run situations that actually include the fanbase. the King Crimson org goes one step further with the Friends and Family rehearsal event. I's also say that the 'VIP' package offers a better and more thorough experience than most other 'ahem' prog lineage purchase packages.
    2trevorsforlife

  16. #1391
    Member Garyhead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    992
    What was the saying "all publicity is good publicity?" A tempest in a teacup.....all manufactured in Facebook.

    I was thinking of dipping a toe back into FB after the "4-year abstinence" but I can now see it's as petty and vindictive as ever.

    Yes. I would attend a KC concert....yes, I would volunteer handing out programs and visiting with like-minded fans an hour before the show. Thank goodness that crap isn't allowed to flourish here on PE.

    As Chris would say: Carry On
    The Ice Cream Lady Wet her drawers........To see you in the Passion Playyyy eeee - I. Anderson

    "It's kind of like deciding not to date a beautiful blonde anymore because she farted." - Top Cat

    I was expecting to be kinda meh, but it made my nips stiffen - Jerjo

    (Zamran) "that fucking thing man . . . it sits there on my wall like a broken clock " - Helix

    Social Media is the "Toilet" of the Internet - Lady Gaga

  17. #1392
    What I hate about social media is how reactionary and quick to judge people have become (or maybe they've always been this way and now they have a public forum) and the lack of thought that goes into responses.

    I will say that the original posting was worded a bit poorly, but did anyone seriously believe that this band:

    Planned overseas visas (during a pandemic no less)
    Shipped large amounts of equipment
    Made travel arrangements for all of the band to get to Tampa
    rented a practice facility
    organized road crews, drivers, vehicles
    hotels
    catering
    merchandise
    setup the venues for the entire tour and their staff
    coordinated with ticket outlets
    calculated gas and other travel costs
    probably many more things that I'm not aware of

    and with all of those arrangements, suddenly forgot to account for 20-30 bucks to pay someone to sell programs so instead tried to get it for free? Crazy.

  18. #1393
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    5,692
    I Lament to inform everybody here that Neal and Jack and Me volunteered for this, just this One Time. All I heard back was "We'll Let You Know". Then virtually No Warning - B'Boom - canceled. We were still Waiting man.....would've been easy money too. I guess its just facts of life?

  19. #1394
    Member The Czar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Twin Peaks
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    The original request clearly stated "help selling programmes before the show" and "would need to arrive a little before doors open." Am I genius for inferring "an hour before showtime to sell programs" while so many others were assuming hours of hard labor? It was interesting how many, very many, people cited Fripps' history of fighting for fair payment as their reason for being aghast, rather than citing that history as a reason to not assume the worst.

    I said it there and I'll say it here: The band did nothing wrong in not assuming the worst of their fans (and expecting them to make the fuss they did). The "fans" decision to use whatever concise bit of information was offered to fill in the rest with the worst assumptions, and attack the band with everything from accusations of exploitation to threats to report them for labor violations and immigration fraud... it was just comical.

    Nevermind. I have great respect for you, and don't want to get into the same crap I did with others on Facebook here with you. But when I ask you what the alternative to "being so cheap" is and you tell me they should be "appropriately recompensed," I can assume I'm only going to get the same non-answers from you that I got there.

    People suggested the volunteers should get free tickets. Whenever I asked how that one person to get a free ticket should be selected? No answer. Except one guy who tried to tell me they should've offered the opportunity to their "10 biggest fans." When I asked him what that meant and how those fans would be determined, he called me a fanboy or something witty like that.

    People suggested they should be paid. When I asked what the pay for selling programs for around an hour should be, given that minimum wage is $7.25 although we all agree it should be $15? No answers, except one person who factored in travel expenses and parking and told me $80.

    Someone suggested to me "half-price ticket. easy solution" or something like that. When I asked her how they determine who gets the half price ticket? No response.

    I said something to this effect in a couple of places: "Buying a $100 ticket and then buying a $40 t-shirt, no problem. Buying a $100 ticket and then helping at the merch counter for a free t-shirt? Exploitation and slave labor."
    Again, no one stepped in to clarify.
    Good post. I think KC should have been more pissy in their reply, and banned all those c*nts from the shows.
    I hate social media when it turns into the idiot show

  20. #1395
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    The Left Coast
    Posts
    1,779
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    I would've expected better of Crimson fans, but instead they're just more eloquent in their trash talk.
    Talk, talk, it's all talk
    Too much talk
    Small talk
    Talk that trash
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  21. #1396
    Member BobM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ponte Vedra, FL
    Posts
    673
    You mean you wouldn't put in an hour at the merch counter for a poster signed by the band?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A gentleman is defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion, and doesn't.

  22. #1397
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    People have been dogpiling and saying exaggerated things on social media for years. If someone(s) can't cope with that without getting pissy when doing the official social media for a band, maybe hand the social media over to someone with skin thicker than a piece of crepe paper?

    Henry
    Just because it's been happening for years doesn't excuse that kind of behavior. I've heard this argument before -- "Just grow thicker skin! Stop being so sensitive!" -- and I'm sorry, but it's bogus if you ask me. Maybe we should be telling the aggressors to stop being such jerks instead.

  23. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    What was “pissy” about the band’s response? I thought it was factual and reasonable, but I certainly might have misread.
    It had a strong "I'm going to take my ball and go home!" vibe to it. There was no acknowledgement that they might possibly have done anything wrong or miscommunicated in any way.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  24. #1399
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    The original request clearly stated "help selling programmes before the show" and "would need to arrive a little before doors open." Am I genius for inferring "an hour before showtime to sell programs" while so many others were assuming hours of hard labor?
    So, you don't know that they meant "an hour's help just moving programs pre-show"? You're just inferring that?

    Tell me what labour was actually involved and we can progress the discussion. That we still don't know, perhaps that suggests KC's Facebook account might've thought to have been clearer on the matter?

    Henry
    Last edited by bondegezou; 1 Week Ago at 04:16 PM.
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  25. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by selfextraction View Post
    What I hate about social media is how reactionary and quick to judge people have become (or maybe they've always been this way and now they have a public forum) and the lack of thought that goes into responses.
    Yes, exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by selfextraction View Post
    I will say that the original posting was worded a bit poorly, but did anyone seriously believe that this band:

    Planned overseas visas (during a pandemic no less)
    Shipped large amounts of equipment
    Made travel arrangements for all of the band to get to Tampa
    rented a practice facility
    organized road crews, drivers, vehicles
    hotels
    catering
    merchandise
    setup the venues for the entire tour and their staff
    coordinated with ticket outlets
    calculated gas and other travel costs
    probably many more things that I'm not aware of

    and with all of those arrangements, suddenly forgot to account for 20-30 bucks to pay someone to sell programs so instead tried to get it for free? Crazy.
    I know what you mean. If any of those folks had really stopped and considered it for more than 10 seconds, maybe they'd have realized it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •