In The Court of the Mega Bucks

[strawberrybrick]

Wow, saw this auction, $3458!!! for a 1st pressing of KC's 1st LP!!!

$(KGrHqJHJFcFF2Ms!KUbBRi17KfLtQ~~60_57.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-King-Cr...item2c6ec03a16

[Man In The Mountain]

Yes I fear tomorrow, I will be crying....

[Esoteric]

Yes I fear tomorrow, I will be crying....

unless you are the seller!!

[arturs]

Can one of our record collecting PE members provide an explanation for why this fetched so much? What exactly does first pressing mean? How many LPs are typically printed in such a pressing?

I'm asking because it just seems weird. This is otherwise such a common LP.

[JeffCarney]

Can one of our record collecting PE members provide an explanation for why this fetched so much? What exactly does first pressing mean? How many LPs are typically printed in such a pressing?

I'm asking because it just seems weird. This is otherwise such a common LP.

First of all, it has A//1 B//1 matrices. That means this would have been from the absolute first batch pressed. As the Seller says, the A//2 B//2 matrices have typically been the earliest seen.

I had an A//4 B//3 pressing some years ago, and I really came to believe the first pressing of Court is a bit on the bright side for my taste. And I don't think the things I was hearing were because it was not from the very first run. I think the original Court is a bit overrated insofar as its sonics are concerned, but many would disagree with me and aside from that, this copy would have collector value well beyond its sonics. It's the very first run of one of the most historic LPs ever recorded with the earliest possible matrices.

[Splicer]

Everything is worth only as much as what someone is willing to pay for it. In and of itself it has no value. It's just memorabilia and as far as I'm concerned memorabilia is junk and clutter.

[arturs]

First of all, it has A//1 B//1 matrices. That means this would have been from the absolute first batch pressed. As the Seller says, the A//2 B//2 matrices have typically been the earliest seen.

I had an A//4 B//3 pressing some years ago, and I really came to believe the first pressing of Court is a bit on the bright side for my taste. And I don't think the things I was hearing were because it was not from the very first run. I think the original Court is a bit overrated insofar as its sonics are concerned, but many would disagree with me and aside from that, this copy would have collector value well beyond its sonics. It's the very first run of one of the most historic LPs ever recorded with the earliest possible matrices.

Thanks, Jeff. Very interesting. Do these A // 1's and 2's get scratched manually onto every disc in the lot? What happens when they switch from A // 1 to 2? In other words, what does different batch signify? Is it just a pre-specified number? Like: we do 100 discs as A // 1 and then we change it to A // 2? Also intersting is that the A's and B's don't always match as in your A // 4 B // 3 example. Do they press the discs one side at a time?

[beano]

Wow...when I retire I will have to go through my 3, 000 + Lp's and see if I can dig up a few of these gems...But I have to agree with Splicer, mostly my collections are just that, CLUTTER!!! Just ask my wife.....

[Septober Energy]

Jeff can probably explain more correctly than I can, but my understanding is that the matrix numbers indicate the number of the stamper (not sure if that's the correct word) used to press the individual records. Matrix numbers are on the stamper itself and are therefore pressed into each record in the batch, they are not "manually scratched" into each record. Stampers would eventually wear out or get damaged, so a new one would be created with a new matrix number. A1 is the first stamper used for side one. B1 is the first stamper used for side 2. A2 would be the second stamper for side one and so on.

First/early pressings are desirable in record collecting circles for a few reasons. Partly it's because there's a perception that attention to quality would slip after multiple pressings of big selling records, partly it's due to a perception that quality as a whole slipped in record manufacturing throughout the '70s and '80s, and partly I think it's based on a sense that owning a first pressing of a record gives you some kind of connection to the actual time and place in which the record was originally released to the public. There's just something special to a record collector about the idea of owning one of the actual records that was in stores the day the record was released. I imagine it's the same for people who collect first printings of books.

As big of a KC fan as I am, and as big of a record collector as I am, I can't fathom paying three grand for a copy of this record when a really good A2/B2 can be had for a tenth of the price, and a pink rim pressing from a year or so later can be had for a fraction of that, but I don't have that much money, nor that much need to impress my record collector buddies, which I think is another driving force behind this particular auction.

[Romerovm]

First of all, it has A//1 B//1 matrices. That means this would have been from the absolute first batch pressed. As the Seller says, the A//2 B//2 matrices have typically been the earliest seen.

I had an A//4 B//3 pressing some years ago, and I really came to believe the first pressing of Court is a bit on the bright side for my taste. And I don't think the things I was hearing were because it was not from the very first run. I think the original Court is a bit overrated insofar as its sonics are concerned, but many would disagree with me and aside from that, this copy would have collector value well beyond its sonics. It's the very first run of one of the most historic LPs ever recorded with the earliest possible matrices.

I agree with everything here, but this particular one sold for much more than previous A//1 B//1 presses I have seen. This particular press had always sold below $1k.

[beano]

Robert Fripp was the high bidder...

[arturs]

Jeff can probably explain more correctly than I can, but my understanding is that the matrix numbers indicate the number of the stamper (not sure if that's the correct word) used to press the individual records. Matrix numbers are on the stamper itself and are therefore pressed into each record in the batch, they are not "manually scratched" into each record. Stampers would eventually wear out or get damaged, so a new one would be created with a new matrix number. A1 is the first stamper used for side one. B1 is the first stamper used for side 2. A2 would be the second stamper for side one and so on.

OK. I get it now. Thanks for the explanation.

As big of a KC fan as I am, and as big of a record collector as I am, I can't fathom paying three grand for a copy of this record when a really good A2/B2 can be had for a tenth of the price, and a pink rim pressing from a year or so later can be had for a fraction of that, but I don't have that much money, nor that much need to impress my record collector buddies, which I think is another driving force behind this particular auction.

Unbelievable, isn't it...

[AncientChord]

"...nothing he's got he really needs, 21st Century Schizoid Man." Peter Sinfield was always correct!

[rapidfirerob]

Someone bought it. Good for that person. I see instruments on Ebay regularly that are ridiculously overpriced.

[Septober Energy]

Weird things happen on eBay. You never really know what's going on. Sometimes there's shady stuff going on with shill bidding. Other times you just have two or more people with more money than patience who really want that item right now. Unfortunately, the latter has never happened to me when I was selling anything!

[dnieper]

"...nothing he's got he really needs, 21st Century Schizoid Man." Peter Sinfield was always correct!

Good call!

[Banquo]

People have spent thousands for Jesus in a cornflake. A//1, B//2? Who gives a shit? Whatever happened to just enjoying the music? Oh wait! I need less brightness.

[Man In The Mountain]

Other times you just have two or more people with more money than patience who really want that item right now. Unfortunately, the latter has never happened to me when I was selling anything!

Isn't that the truth!!! I put stuff on e-bay and tumbleweeds roll by, when just a few weeks earlier the same item seemingly broke someone's bank.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Weird things happen on eBay. You never really know what's going on. Sometimes there's shady stuff going on with shill bidding.

yes, the seller could be the high bidder in an attempt to drive up the perceived value. If it appears in the next couple of months from the same seller then you'll know that was the case... or he may be smart enough to have a different account he offers it under...

[Mister Triscuits]

yes, the seller could be the high bidder in an attempt to drive up the perceived value. If it appears in the next couple of months from the same seller then you'll know that was the case...

Not necessarily. The high bidder could have been a time-waster who never paid up. The seller may or may not then offer the item to the next-highest bidder, but there are any number of reasons why that may not result in a sale. So the seller eventually just relists the item.

[ronmac]

Someone bought it. Good for that person. I see instruments on Ebay regularly that are ridiculously overpriced.

How they're priced and what they sell for are two different things, though.

People have spent thousands for Jesus in a cornflake. A//1, B//2? Who gives a shit? Whatever happened to just enjoying the music? Oh wait! I need less brightness.

Some people give a shit and have the money. It's called free enterprise.

Others might feel the same way about people spending time here. Different strokes, bro.

[Banquo]

Others might feel the same way about people spending time here. Different strokes, bro.

Yep. Different strokes...bro.

[arturs]

Dunno why I'm thinking about this so much, but... I also wonder--given how much money these A // 1 B // 1 pressings apparently fetch--how difficult it would be to fake something like this. The only distinguishing thing about this LP, the "1" as opposed to a "2" or some other number, is pressed in the vinyl. Couldn't a "2" be erased by carefully heating the vinyl and replaced with a "1"? Or perhaps a whole new LP could be pressed and sold in an original dust jacket and cover. Does this ever happen? Can collectors tell the difference?

Don't worry, I'm not assessing the potential of a new career! I'm just curious...

[strawberrybrick]

I don't think it would be that easy to fake, plus you have eBay buyer protection plan!

But more importantly, there is - more or less - a code of conduct between collectors. I've been to record shows most of my life and the "db's" don't stay in business very long. People are on the up and up, in my experience.

[JeffCarney]

Dunno why I'm thinking about this so much, but... I also wonder--given how much money these A // 1 B // 1 pressings apparently fetch--how difficult it would be to fake something like this. The only distinguishing thing about this LP, the "1" as opposed to a "2" or some other number, is pressed in the vinyl. Couldn't a "2" be erased by carefully heating the vinyl and replaced with a "1"? Or perhaps a whole new LP could be pressed and sold in an original dust jacket and cover. Does this ever happen? Can collectors tell the difference?

Don't worry, I'm not assessing the potential of a new career! I'm just curious...

You're dealing with machine stamped matrices. The numbers are literally cut into the deadwax. No way could what you're talking about be done.

Even with hand written matrix info, I think it would be obvious.