Electric Light Orchestra: Why So Underrated?

[GuitarGeek]

I never thought of that, but you're right. I can even hear a bit of Orbison-songwriting in "Hold On Tight."

I never thought of it until I saw an interview during the Traveling Wilburys era, where George Harrison is commenting about being nervous about having to sing with Roy. Jeff chimes in with, "You were nervous? How do you think I felt?! I had to sing with Roy Orbison and George Harrison!".

Jeff Lynne liked to pull out that pre-British Invasion rock n roll thing every once in awhile. Rockaria sounds like a Little Richard tune to me (actually, it kinda sounds like ELO doing The Beatles doing Little Richard, with Jeff sounding like he's emulating McCartney's Little Richard impression). When Rock N Roll Was King is another one that's very rockabilly sounding.

I always thought those two songs he produced on Dave Edmunds' Information album, Slipping Away and Information itself, always sounded like a strange mix of like "modern" (well, modern for 1983) synth pop production with a sort of country and western songwriting sensibility. If you mixed out the synths, those two songs would almost sound like they could have been done by someone like George Jones.

[WeatherWiseCDC]

Try (or re-listen to) Third Day

Well, they were a pop band. The problem with pop music is that it is presented and marketed in a completely disposable way. I think most folks who attempt pop music realize this. They've been buried under the perpetual torrents of pop music that came after them, and that's about it. I don't think it is a matter of being under-rated, considering their phenomenal success back in the day.

Until Rush made their charm offensive a few years back, they were slipping under the radar too. Though one could argue that Rush had a bigger impact in being seminal in the sub-genre of prog metal, which continues to replicate itself. ELO/Jeff Lynne really wasn't seminal to anything, more of a torchbearer than anything else in the broader world of pop.

Am I underrating them?

The sheer quality of ELO's pop stylings is a marvel to me. They made some great pop tunes, as solid as can be, as catchy as can be. I encountered their music at an early age. When I was a child, it was everywhere that pop music was pumped through a PA system. ELO, Steve Miller, Blue Oyster Cult, they shaped my idea of pop music, so they are inseparable from a certain nostalgia for me. Still, I find their songs thoroughly enjoyable on their own merits.

My collection has never gone beyond a one-disc The Essential... compilation, though. I've occasionally thought of going deeper, but wound up buying something else.

It's easy to browse through the selection of songs online as we are doing now. They released a lot of music that simply gets overlooked because of how successful their singles were. The problem with the compilation albums is that they don't paint an entire picture of what Lynne was capable of writing.

I posted this on the first page, but I'll share it again here. "Dreaming of 4000" is a tremendous composition from the "On the Third Day" album, infusing classical styles with rock. I don't see the issue with ELO having a pop sound; The Beatles thrived with countless pop recordings. Considering Lynne wanted to follow in their footsteps, I don't see it as much of a surprise. I can perhaps see the negativity if one examines them from a progressive rock perspective, but I don't believe that was ever their sole intention. Lynne was an innovator in the recording studio, experimenting with sounds that established his reputation as one of the world's greatest music producers. He experimented with genres, and I'm beginning to wonder if it was right to post this in the prog rock forum section since they crossed many genres with their music. There's something that appeals to everyone, which appears to be why everyone prefers a different album. Sometimes they even changed genres on the same album, i.e. "Poker" and "Fire On High." One is a punk song, the other is a symphonic prog instrumental piece.

I'll post nine tracks below and nothing more, as not to clutter the page:

[WeatherWiseCDC]

[Oreb]

For me Out of the Blue was one of those records that is so redolent of its time (and my life at that time) that I'll always have a special fondness for it. I think that the verses of "Steppin' Out' are very beautiful.

The great pop writers of the era that produced Lynne - Burt Bacharach, Jackie Trent and Tony Hatch, Jimmy Webb, Ray Davies, yeah, OK, Lennon/McCartney - had the craft and inspiration to take inspired melodic fragments onto another level. The thing for me is, as a writer Jeff Lynne comes up with the most fantastic melodic ideas, but he doesn't seem to be able to develop them into anything: more often than not (and 'Steppin' Out' is an example of this) those ideas lead into trite choruses or interminable fades.

[WeatherWiseCDC]

[spellbound]

I always liked ELO and never considered them underrated. I have all their records through Out Of The Blue, after which they must have faded from my interest. Not because they never did anything else that was any good, but more because I rarely listened to the radio through the '80s and half the '90s. But from the first album through A New World Record, I was a fan. I went to see them in concert twice, once circa 1975 with Canned Heat and Carmen opening and once in 1976 with Little Feat opening. Good shows both times. I'm probably not your typical fan, as I lived on the west coast US and I also liked The Move and Roy Wood and Wizzard (and Canned Heat and Little Feat). It didn't bother me that ELO were considered a pop band. Whatever you want to call their music, they were good at it.

[Reginod]

I have a good handful of ELO's rekkids; an old LP or two, and then just recently a co-worker gave me a stack of their CDs. So collection-wise I'm well-armed to check them out should that desire ever arise.

Thus far, though, I can't claim any real familiarity with any of it, outside of the things that I heard on the radio so much, more than 30 years ago. I guess I'll get around to it all at some point.

[Yodelgoat]

I liked Face the Music. I always pictured Jeff Lynne as a guy who was always chasing the dollar signs. I really likes stuff like Fire from on High and Poker. But their willingness to play " Roll over Beethoven" was just for me an attempt to chase dollar signs. I liked the intro to ROB, but them when it became totally predictable, I was outta there.

When ever I hear Jeff Lynne was producing someone, I associated it with appealing to the broad base of humanity. Take that for what it is, but I was always looking for something more meaningful. I get the feeling the Jeff would have liked to do less schmaltzy stuff, but the man in the suit was always behind him waiving a wad of cash under his nose and telling him to make good things happen - which never meant pushing someone away from pop and into somewhere meaningful. It always meant "swallow".

I can't hardly bear to listen to new world record, which was undoubtedly their most successful album, it just reminds me of a time when I felt that music was losing its fragile grip on perfection, and sliding into John Travolta Hell.

Frackin disco screwed up the world. - Although the world got better once it abandoned the idea that good music is always the most popular. But Jeff Lynne has a great big "kick me" sign on his back, and although he has done some good to attempt to move back into my good graces - analog man by Joe Walsh was a good example of an attempt at redemption. Face the Music for me will always be his pinnacle - his epic milieu. Although I doubt he ever saw a nickel from that album.

[JIF]

Big fan here, in fact I thank them for introducing me to violin infused music as they were easily for me a stepping stone to listening to Jean-Luc Ponty, Eddie Jobson's bands et al. Caught the "Out Of The Blue" tour in '78; don't remember Steve Hillage opening although numerous sources state he did so. MSG and Nassau Coliseum iirc. I also enjoy the Jeff Lynne-less versions, thought the music was just as good with whatever vocalist; caught ELO II in a twin bill with Kansas at the Westbury Music Fair, gotta be early '90s (?) and looking forward to The Orchestra playing on Long Island July 23. Mik Kaminsky and Lou Clark are old days members continuing the tradition with Glen Burtnick handling the lead vocals.

http://theorchestra.net
http://theorchestra.net/gigs.html

I thought that ELO Part 2 was dead. Didn't know that Glen was their singer.

[JJ88]

For me Out of the Blue was one of those records that is so redolent of its time (and my life at that time) that I'll always have a special fondness for it. I think that the verses of "Steppin' Out' are very beautiful.

The great pop writers of the era that produced Lynne - Burt Bacharach, Jackie Trent and Tony Hatch, Jimmy Webb, Ray Davies, yeah, OK, Lennon/McCartney - had the craft and inspiration to take inspired melodic fragments onto another level. The thing for me is, as a writer Jeff Lynne comes up with the most fantastic melodic ideas, but he doesn't seem to be able to develop them into anything: more often than not (and 'Steppin' Out' is an example of this) those ideas lead into trite choruses or interminable fades.

For me, the biggest difference between the writers you mention and Jeff Lynne is that IMHO they didn't fall into 'formula' so much. As I said, I think that sound became a real prison for ELO by the late 70s, yet they kept on selling. 'Discovery' again is being touted as some disco record but take off 'Shine A Little Love' and 'Last Train To London' and it really sounds the same as all their others- and even those songs are typical ELO numbers, really, with disco arrangements. (Although I do like 'Don't Bring Me Down' a lot, the other songs on there have lost some lustre for me.)

I also don't know that Jeff Lynne was an innovator in the same way as those other writers; I don't care about that too much because he does still have a knack for a memorable hook of the kind that's a real 'lost art'.

[JIF]

For me, the biggest difference between the writers you mention and Jeff Lynne is that IMHO they didn't fall into 'formula' so much. As I said, I think that sound became a real prison for ELO by the late 70s, yet they kept on selling. 'Discovery' again is being touted as some disco record but take off 'Shine A Little Love' and 'Last Train To London' and it really sounds the same as all their others- and even those songs are typical ELO numbers, really, with disco arrangements. (Although I do like 'Don't Bring Me Down' a lot, the other songs on there have lost some lustre for me.)

I also don't know that Jeff Lynne was an innovator in the same way as those other writers; I don't care about that too much because he does still have a knack for a memorable hook of the kind that's a real 'lost art'.

Jeff Lynne was very innovative. I can't put my finger on it, but there is just something about the sound of ELO that doesn't sound like any other band. People slam them because they stole from The Beatles, but who didn't steal from someone else? Led Zepplin and The Stones borrowed from the blues, The Byrds owe a lot to Bob Dylan, and Aerosmith stole from The Stones. It's not who you're influenced by, it's what you do with it. ELO had a futuristic sound.

[JJ88]

Well I didn't 'slam them because they stole from The Beatles' in the first place- I wouldn't have used the word 'stole' at all. But IMHO Lynne's ELO writing is generally more orthodox than the people Oreb mentioned. As I said, I do still very much admire his ability to write a memorable tune.

[JIF]

To my ears ELO were very inconsistent. I think some of their albums were great such as “New World Record” and some were complete crap such as “Discovery”. Why their legacy has not held up as well as a lot of 70’s bands, I don’t really know, but you are right they don’t seem to have a lot of impact today. I thought the “Zooma” ELO album (that was basically Jeff Lynn solo) was pretty bad. I like that you mention the “Time” album which I think was an album that slipped underneath the radar, but was one of ELO’s best.

Steve Sly

I think that ELO was very consistent. ELO's first seven albums(and Time) were great.

[JIF]

Well I didn't 'slam them because they stole from The Beatles' in the first place- I wouldn't have used the word 'stole' at all. But IMHO Lynne's ELO writing is generally more orthodox than the people Oreb mentioned. As I said, I do still very much admire his ability to write a memorable tune.

I know you didn't, but many people have.

[ronmac]

Jeff Lynne was certainly very heavily influenced by The Beatles. Did he steal from them? I think that's a bit too strong.

[jkelman]

Try (or re-listen to) Third Day

Will do...but only 'cause you said so

[Obscured]

Others that have "stolen" from The Beatles, and proudly stated so, include Jon Anderson/Yes and Todd Rundgren.

[Facelift]

I think of them primarily as a singles band, and they have 15-20 tunes that would make for a great time capsule of '70s pop music.

Why aren't they better known today? They sound time-stamped in the '70s, and their music doesn't really transcend that era. They *are* fairly well-known to people who lived through the era (say, people over 50). But, most people alive today are under 50, so I guess that's why they aren't better known. By that logic, I suppose that they will continue to become more obscure, and not more popular.

[Obscured]

I thought that ELO Part 2 was dead. Didn't know that Glen was their singer.

A few nights ago-

[Obscured]

[GuitarGeek]

Big fan here, in fact I thank them for introducing me to violin infused music as they were easily for me a stepping stone to listening to Jean-Luc Ponty, Eddie Jobson's bands et al. Caught the "Out Of The Blue" tour in '78; don't remember Steve Hillage opening although numerous sources state he did so.

Hillage opened for ELO on the A New World Record tour, not the Out Of The Blue tour. This would have been, I believe around March or April of 77. I have a bootleg of Hillage's set from one of those shows, Kansas City, I believe.

[Jerjo]

I like ELO and I wouldn't even call it a guilty pleasure. It's pop rock craftsmanship and will always bring a smile to my face. I wouldn't say they changed the world and the sound got a bit dated by the time they dallied with disco. But I keep an ELO playlist on my PC for those times that I need that itch scratched.

And how come no one has posted "Jungle" yet. Two of my old frat brothers actually had a dance routine worked out for the 5 seconds when the animals dance, a routine that always worked better when they each were on their 7th beer.

[Camelogue]

Face The Music
Eldorado
On The Third Day

These are my favorites. An excellent pop band with an extreme amount of overdubbing. It was good stuff for the times.

Prog? don't care, extremely popular pop band after Jeff Lynne took control.

[WeatherWiseCDC]

ELO was a fave when I was about 12 or so. Looking back I realize they were the first grandiose/pompous sounding band I got into. They may have lead to all this... in a way.

WeatherWise, what do you think of the cd of ELO remakes Jeff did last year?

I wasn't particularly happy with the remakes, and I didn't necessarily buy Jeff's explanation that the original recordings sounded "muddy." I believe he was very meticulous with the production of the original albums, and I don't think the new versions improve the songs at all. In addition, his voice has become a lot softer and breathier since the 70s and 80s. The remakes simply weren't necessary.

In addition, most of Jeff's new recordings seem very hollow and uniform. The drumming in them is stiff, and it's easy to distinguish between an old ELO recording and a new Jeff Lynne solo recording. The drumming in every song sounds very similar to the drumming in Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down." Even his new Long Wave cover CD sounded very stiff and robotic.

He has been releasing new bonus tracks on the recent re-releases of the ELO albums. This is one example. It sounds very flat and uniform.



It's the same thing here. ELO had its own unique sound. Solo Jeff Lynne has a completely different sound, and the lack of Bev Bevan has made the drums in Lynne's work sound very robotic. The fact that there are four Jeff Lynnes in this video sums up everything about how Jeff views ELO now.

[notallwhowander]

He probably did it so he could cut a direct deal with iTunes, etc. Who knows who owns the original recordings now. He might as well cut them out of the loop and negotiate directly for use of his hits. It's all a bit revisionist for my tastes, but I'd rather the artists like Lynne play a greater hand in managing their respective legacies.