Why the recent obsession with UK?

[Progmatic]

Do they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 or top 30 prog bands of all time?

I think it is more buzz by the fan boys than general support...the best of thier effort, "U.K." album is ranked approx as 2,450th all times in Gnosis2000; ProgArchives does not list it in their top 250 albums either

[bp]

I had a chance to see UK in Baltimore but had to bail at the last minute due to a family issue.

I would have loved to hear Eddie with John. I've seen Eddie a few times in the past years and enjoyed the shows quite a bit but always missed having Wetton's playing and singing. I hope I get another chance to catch them but I don't see these shows happening on a regular basis unless they decide to do a new UK album and tour in support of that.

[Poisoned Youth]

I'll repeat what I just posted in response to Trane, if the music did not hold up, I would have cared less who was in the band.

I'll also repeat the example of Asia. Another 'supergroup' with huge prog credentials, and they sucked.

I do not 'spooge' over UK because of who is in the band, but based solely on the quality of the music.

I have a huge collection of recordings, most with musicians that were unknowns before they recorded, yet many of these I 'spooge' over as much as UK.

I'm not sure what this has to with anything I was saying. First, my comment was directed primarily at the question posed by the OP.

Second, I did not suggest that people love them because of who was in the band, just that they got more attention - in the same way that Asia got a lot of attention - just different attention.

[Shadow]

I think in a few years they will be like "eh" kind of like the way people are now with Nektar.

Nektar was never as good as UK's first album. You get Bruford and Holdys out there and you would have a tough time getting a seat.

[Banquo]

I think in a few years they will be like "eh" kind of like the way people are now with Nektar.

Since when was Nektar like "eh"? Sometimes I have to listen to Tab just to remember what prog was and should still be. I feel the same about the first UK.

[Dave (in MA)]

The only Nektar I've ever heard was A Tab in the Ocean.

[polmico]

It's King Crimson back from the dead!

Man, I really like that first UK record, but I hear very little of the grit, danger, angst or anger of Crim in there. Crim could balance the pastoral with the angular in ways that no one else could. The prominent role of Jobson's synths also helped to . . . soften UK's sound, whereas Fripp's angular guitar juxtaposed perfectly against Cross' (I assume we're talking mostly about 72-74 Crim) shrill violin and distorted Hohner (not discounting Cross' Mellotron work, of course).

That would be Atomic Rooster - Death Walks Behind You, IMHO

Yeah. Hell, I'd throw Egg up there as heavier than UK (again, it's the synths--they distort zilch and I guess heavy for me means distortion). Even the first ELP album is heavier. But I guess a lot of that is taste and perspective.

[Trane]

Quote Originally Posted by simon moon View Post
I'll repeat what I just posted in response to Trane, if the music did not hold up, I would have cared less who was in the band.

I'll also repeat the example of Asia. Another 'supergroup' with huge prog credentials, and they sucked.

I do not 'spooge' over UK because of who is in the band, but based solely on the quality of the music.

I'm not sure what this has to with anything I was saying. First, my comment was directed primarily at the question posed by the OP.

Second, I did not suggest that people love them because of who was in the band, just that they got more attention - in the same way that Asia got a lot of attention - just different attention.

Actually I kind of did suggest that (about supergroups in general, not specifically UK) without any disrespect either to either the artistes or the band fan(boy)s jk . But Simon and you both come up with Asia (whom I hadn't thought about specifically at first)... This can be valid for Blind Faith as well.... vastly overrated , IMHO, almost a waste of collective huge talents

Supergroups rarely work, Bad Company is the prime example... after a promising debut, the rest is quite disappointing, not meeting the levels Free, KC or Mott (well maybe maybe in the latter case.... )... Yet, these guys had much more experience than in their previous bands... They'd exhausted most of their inspiration and didn't have their naive enthousiasm anymore

Actually if I raise Cream as the "crème de la crème" of supergroups (I'd place Hatfield and Mole up there as well), above all the others, it's because it seems that these guys were made to meet each other to make fantastic music by destiny... a bit like The Beatles. If Ginger was older and more experimented, Clapton and Bruce only had four years max as prof musicians before joining forces...
Whereas UK (and even worse, Asia), most of the musicians (Holdsworth including, who'd started in Igginbottom in 68) already had a decade of slugging it out (with varying amount of success). OK, I'm not sure what Jobson did before joining CA in 73. by the time their debut album was released. I'm even going to get killed here, but even National Health doesn't cary the iventiveness and enthousiasm of Hatfield and other previous Canterby-scene groups... they sound so clinical and cold, almost sterile, to my ears (well clinical, sterile... Healthcare geddit? )... Ditto for Gilgamesh (but were they a "supergroup?)


Maybe I'm going on hypotheses, here.... But it would've been interesting to see if Asia had done the same albums but having members of Cactus, Reo Speedwagon, Uriah Heep and ... The Guess Who (for ex)... Would they had gotten a fifth (even a tenth) of the attention, not only from from MTV, but from progheads... I dare say that 90% of PE would not think highly of Asia if Jim McCarty, Alan Gratzer, Ian Clarke and Dominic Triano (had to look up in RYM for some of these names ) had made its line-up.
Likewise, if Brooff (idolized by most of us) hadn't been part of UK, I'm sure the band would've had a much lesser profile and not gotten a fifth of the attention and love it gets on prog sites.

[Desdinova]

Wasn't Wakeman originally a part of this?

Q: Why did Wakeman, Bruford and Wetton not happen? Was that because --

BB: Well, I'm glad it didn't -- for a number of reasons, actually. Oh, God! Where to start? Well, Wakeman is an extraordinary man, for a starter. I mean, he's a very immature man, a very confused guy. You know, he's a very gifted piano player. He had a very good technique, very good ability. A good touch on the piano. Lovely. Ever heard Morning Has Broken -- Cat Stevens?

Q: That's him?

BB: Yes. Do you know that tune?

Q: Yes.

BB: It's a lovely old hymn -- an English hymn, I think. Might even be an American. Morning Has Broken. It's a lovely tune, and that was Rick. And he's a very good piano player. But he's a muddled [or modeled] man, completely.

It was his vague suggestion that we should go and rehearse for a weekend -- which I agreed to, and tried some of my tunes out with John Wetton and Rick. The next thing we knew we were all in a group together, you know. Then he ran away and hid for about a week, while politicians thought about it. You know, could their star, the A & M Records star, be seen to hang out with Wetton and Bruford?

It was all very complicated. I sat in the back; and then I was told it wasn't happening. So I was very pleased. I mean, I was kind of sucked into that one.

Q: Were the record companies trying to make it another Emerson, Lake and Palmer type deal?

BB: That was what everybody was looking for, yes. Because, I mean, the theory has been that America needs a new ELP; or at least that's the way to wring some cash out of America. That was the split in U.K., too -- that half of U.K. decided that would be what America needed; and the other half of U.K., namely me and [Allan] Holdsworth thought that America needed Holdsworth. Which I still believe America needs Holdsworth, but unfortunately, I can't get him to believe that, either.

Q: Did you still think the music was good in U.K. when you left?

BB: Yes. I always leave before it gets stinking. Sure. I mean, I wouldn't play it if I didn't think it was good. Absolutely. But I could see in the future, there was going to be an impossible argument here -- because Eddie and John had done their market research, and they were sure that America needed an organ-style, Keith Emerson-style ELP. With me understudying Carl Palmer and all that. Which is absurd.

http://www.elephant-talk.com/wiki/No...h_Bill_Bruford

[old school]

The debut is killer but I like Danger Money better! I think there was always a obsession with U.K. it's just great prog.

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

Wetton's vocals that don't do it for me. He's a wonderful bassist, of course, but I always found him the weakest of King Crimson vocalists.

By far! And very overrated as a bassist. too.

[Rufus]

Wetton era KC was the only one I really liked !Certainly the best bassist they ever had & second only to Lake as their best vocalist ! That stick thingy bass by Levin is an annoying sound . Just slap & tickle !

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

it's about the best heavy keyboard power trio album ever made.

(chucks up dinner)SERIOUSLY? THAT'S the best you could come up with?

Quatermass-s/t
Egg-s/t
Fields-s/t
Atomic Rooster-Death Walks Behind You
Le Orme-Felona e Serona
Triumvirat-Spartacus

I could go on, but I think(hope)you get the picture - maybe not...

[Calabasas_Trafalgar]

I think it is more buzz by the fan boys than general support...the best of thier effort, "U.K." album is ranked approx as 2,450th all times in Gnosis2000;

Sounds about right. Maybe a little too high.

[trurl]

(chucks up dinner)SERIOUSLY? THAT'S the best you could come up with?

Quatermass-s/t
Egg-s/t
Fields-s/t
Atomic Rooster-Death Walks Behind You
Le Orme-Felona e Serona
Triumvirat-Spartacus

I could go on, but I think(hope)you get the picture - maybe not...

I could say the same... Spartacus? Seriously? Decent album but one step shy of being as fluffy as ABBA. Death Walks is a contender (I never said DM WAS the heaviest and one and only), and I love Egg, but neither (to me) begins to have the sheer ferocity that Terry Bozzio is bringing. Can't comment on the others.

[calyx]

(chucks up dinner)SERIOUSLY? THAT'S the best you could come up with?

Quatermass-s/t
Egg-s/t
Fields-s/t
Atomic Rooster-Death Walks Behind You
Le Orme-Felona e Serona
Triumvirat-Spartacus

I could go on, but I think(hope)you get the picture - maybe not...

I rate "Danger Money" higher than any of these.
Flame away !

[Rufus]

(chucks up dinner)SERIOUSLY? THAT'S the best you could come up with?

Quatermass-s/t
Egg-s/t
Fields-s/t
Atomic Rooster-Death Walks Behind You
Le Orme-Felona e Serona

Triumvirat-Spartacus

I could go on, but I think(hope)you get the picture - maybe not...

None of these are truly great albums & some are pure copycat of what had gone before ! None come close to both UK albums !

[Kcrimso]

I rate "Danger Money" higher than any of these.
Flame away !

Me too. Spartacus? Hah!

[Brian Griffin]

Q: Why did Wakeman, Bruford and Wetton not happen? Was that because --

BB: Well, I'm glad it didn't -- for a number of reasons, actually. Oh, God! Where to start? Well, Wakeman is an extraordinary man, for a starter. I mean, he's a very immature man, a very confused guy. ]

BB = pompous, for a change

Pretty shitty thing to say

I've tried too many times, was disappointed with the first UK in 78, and it's one that has really never hit me

BG

[old school]

Instrumentally, UK are great. It's just Wetton's vocals that don't do it for me. He's a wonderful bassist, of course, but I always found him the weakest of King Crimson vocalists. In my opinion

Wetton's vocals are great to me but his bass playing is top notch!

[Zeuhlmate]

Wettons bass in KC is next to sublime. His sound alone...
He might not be the best bassplayer in the world or in other contexts, but thats a different story.

[polmico]

None of these are truly great albums & some are pure copycat of what had gone before ! None come close to both UK albums !

Not going to argue with your taste; you're more than welcome to like UK more than whatever.

But just out of curiosity: Whom did Egg copycat?

[notallwhowander]

Wettons bass in KC is next to sublime. His sound alone...
He might not be the best bassplayer in the world or in other contexts, but thats a different story.

He bass tone in KC still blows me away. It sounds like he's chopping away at the air with a twenty-pound axe!

[Zeuhlmate]

Especially live - Asbury Park !!!! (e.g - U.S.A. live, The Great Deceiver , The Nightwatch)

The combination Fender Precison + Highwatt tube amps is one of my favorites.
Ray Shulman, John Entwhistle (Live at leeds) used the same - but with different minds & fingers.

[polmico]

The combination Fender Precison + Highwatt tube amps is one of my favorites.
Ray Shulman, John Entwhistle (Live at leeds) used the same - but with different minds & fingers.

Yes. Wetton was clearly trying to destroy the universe with his bass playing. There's none of that destruction in the rhythm section of UK that was so up front in the KC rhythm section--the same rhythm section, mind you.