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Thread: Lake with Asia...

  1. #76
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I've always wondered what would have happened had they been able to keep the same songwriting dynamic that they had on the debut, instead of the Wetton/Downes "hit machine."
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akustika View Post
    I totally agree...although a better example may have been: "Yes featuring Trevor Horn" or even "Yes featuring Trevor Rabin". ...And no disrespect intended towards either Trevor or JP, just that they were not original members.

    Your examples are much better. the point I was making about Jon A. was even he knows he has become a solo artist doing the music of his life,which includes Yes. But he's wise enough to know how to associate himself with Yes not being in Yes. "He used The Voice Of Yes" last tour.

  3. #78
    What happened with Ride The Tiger? Did they record anything? When was the project? I remember reading something about it, but then nothing came of it... Please jog my memory

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    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    What happened with Ride The Tiger? Did they record anything? When was the project? I remember reading something about it, but then nothing came of it... Please jog my memory
    Yes, they did record some songs in the late 80's, but nothing came of it. One track "Love Under Fire" was recorded by ASIA for the 'AQUA' album and "Affairs of the Heart" was recorded by ELP for the 'Black Moon' album. The remainder tracks (including two versions of "Love Under Fire" sung by Greg Lake) were released and you can find them on the 'From the Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective', and the 'From the Underground Vols. 1 & 2 cds. The track "Street War" from "n the Hot Seat" was originated from the Ride The Tiger sessions, but the version that ended on ITHS was reworked and hence, it doesn't have Geoff Downes with a writing credit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    No disrespect to John Payne or Erik Norlander,but I agree with the above. Any band using the name Asia without Geoff Downes is like having a Yes minus Chris Squire. Can you imagine this band: "Yes featuring Jon Anderson" while the band touring as Yes is out at the same time? Just think about how many bands could do this confusing their fans right and left? I don't understand why John Payne just didn't stick with GPS,which I thought was a cool name actually. Speaking of the return of Steve Howe, so many times fans cite the album Aura,but actually he came back for Aqua,which was the first to feature John Payne on bass/vocals. Now I have to admit Steve only plays a little classical guitar on the opening track,and I'm not sure if he brings out his electric Gibson at all. Maybe some of you experts do. This was 1986 and of course Steve was probably already involved with GTR. My first and lasting impression of John Payne was immediate and that was that he sounded identical to Magnum's Bob Cately as a singer. I've yet to find anyone who agrees with me so far,but I really don't care,it's what I hear and think that matters-lol. Sometime if you own some Magnum do an A/B test and check out my theory.
    I don't know if I understood your timeline correctly, but GTR was in 1986 and the 'AQUA' album was released in 1992. Steve Howe plays guitar on "Aqua Pt.1", Who Will Stop The Rain, "Someday", "A Far Cry", "Back in Town", and The Voice of Reason"

    On your second point, yes I do hear similarities between John Payne and Bob Catley, but they are still different. Maybe it's their more aggressive vocal approach that makes them similar (I'm a fan of Magnum, btw). Also, even musically I hear similarities between Payne-era ASIA and Magnum, probably because Payne era ASIA's music is heavier and more "proggy" if you will than OA, so fans of Magnum might dig Payne-era ASIA and vice versa.

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    Speaking of the return of Steve Howe, so many times fans cite the album Aura,but actually he came back for Aqua,which was the first to feature John Payne on bass/vocals. Now I have to admit Steve only plays a little classical guitar on the opening track,and I'm not sure if he brings out his electric Gibson at all. Maybe some of you experts do. .
    How was credited with acoustic guitar, mandolin and 12-string. He appears on a few tracks, but NOT playing electric.

  7. #82
    Member Big Ears's Avatar
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    I think Ride the Tiger is a great name for a band. Greg's version of Love Under Fire is pretty good and, like the band with Gary Moore, RTT seems to have been another of his promising post-ELP projects which came to little.

    Check it Out and Blue Light on From the Underground II are credited to Greg Lake's Ride the Tiger.
    Last edited by Big Ears; 05-18-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerardo View Post
    I don't know if I understood your timeline correctly, but GTR was in 1986 and the 'AQUA' album was released in 1992. Steve Howe plays guitar on "Aqua Pt.1", Who Will Stop The Rain, "Someday", "A Far Cry", "Back in Town", and The Voice of Reason"

    On your second point, yes I do hear similarities between John Payne and Bob Catley, but they are still different. Maybe it's their more aggressive vocal approach that makes them similar (I'm a fan of Magnum, btw). Also, even musically I hear similarities between Payne-era ASIA and Magnum, probably because Payne era ASIA's music is heavier and more "proggy" if you will than OA, so fans of Magnum might dig Payne-era ASIA and vice versa.
    Thank you. I had a feeling my timeline was off,but I couldn't remember what the hell Asia was doing between Astra and Aqua? Did they really take a 7 year hiatus?

    Another thing,what did you all think of Live In Moscow cd/vhs with Pat Thrall? I still own both of them,but haven't partaken in more than a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    Thank you. I had a feeling my timeline was off,but I couldn't remember what the hell Asia was doing between Astra and Aqua? Did they really take a 7 year hiatus?

    Another thing,what did you all think of Live In Moscow cd/vhs with Pat Thrall? I still own both of them,but haven't partaken in more than a few years.
    Personally, I think 'Live in Moscow' is the best of all the live albums they have released (of any era). I know it's my favorite and thought Pat Thrall was fantastic. He gave ASIA more energy and sort of a different sound. I remember making a vhs copy of the video after I rented it at a video store and kept it for a long time, until I saw a dvd release of it in the early 2000s which I bought and still have to this day. I haven't watch it for the longest time, but I think the video included the videos for "Prayin' 4 A Miracle" and "Kari-Anne".
    Last edited by Gerardo; 05-19-2013 at 12:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rand Kelly View Post
    Thank you. I had a feeling my timeline was off,but I couldn't remember what the hell Asia was doing between Astra and Aqua? Did they really take a 7 year hiatus?
    there was a reunion hinted at in 1987 with scott gorham of thin lizzy and michael sturgis joining wetton and downes on guitar and drums respectively. this eventually fell throught because they could only secure a deal for japan. they did however come up with some songs which eventually surfaced on the interim album “then & now”. pat thrall joined up at roughly the same time and that yielded the “live in moscow” set. michael sturgis eventually rejoined on drums later for the aqua/aria/arena-triplet.

    prior to this, a german promoter brought ASiA back for a set of dates in 1989 supporting the BEACH BOYS of all people. this consisted of john wetton and carl palmer. there were a few summer open airs which also included iT BiTES (many iB-participants retained a long-standing personal and working relationship with john wetton). geoff downes was not part of this version of ASiA as he was tied in with the “ride the tiger” project with greg lake. instead, john young, who is also a fixture in the britprog scene (he later joined wetton & palmer in QANGO) played keyboards. ASiA at that time had alan darby and later holger larisch on guitar and toured locally for the remainder of 1989. when “ride the tiger” folded with no marketable result, downes eventually rejoined full-time for the “then & now” period. of course, wetton left a year later, disillusioned at not being able to break the band on a global scale.

    (edited for incomplete info)
    Last edited by iguana; 05-19-2013 at 12:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    there was a reunion hinted at in 1987 with scott gorham of thin lizzy and michael sturgis joining wetton and downes on guitar and drums respectively. this eventually fell throught because they could only secure a deal for japan. they did however come up with some songs which eventually surfaced on the interim album “then & now”. pat thrall joined up at roughly the same time and that yielded the “live in moscow” set. michael sturgis eventually rejoined on drums later for the aqua/aria/arena-triplet.

    prior to this, a german promoter brought ASiA back for a set of dates in 1989 supporting the BEACH BOYS of all people. this consisted of john wetton and carl palmer. there were a few summer open airs which also included iT BiTES (many iB-participants retained a long-standing personal and working relationship with john wetton). geoff downes was not part of this version of ASiA as he was tied in with the “ride the tiger” project with greg lake. ASiA at that time had alan darby and later holger larisch on guitar and toured locally for the remainder of 1989. when “ride the tiger” folded with no marketable result, downes eventually rejoined full-time for the “then & now” period. of course, wetton left a year later, disillusioned at not being able to break the band on a global scale.
    You bring a good point. I think he was disillusioned because they couldn't tour the U.S. Not only ASIA did not tour the 'ASTRA' album in 1985, but I think they never toured the U.S. during that period of activity between 1989-1991. Not even because of the release of 'Then and Now' and the fact that "Days Like These" charted #2 on the Rock charts and #64 on the Billboard charts and the album itself charted #114 on the Billboard top 200 could they tour the U.S. (not to mention that 3/4 of the original band was there). They did tour Europe, Japan, Moscow and South America but couldn't tour the U.S. even with an album out? If you take the fact that the last time they toured the U.S. was on the 'ALPHA' tour in 1983 until Wetton left in 1991, that's 8 years of not touring their biggest and most important market (the market the band was aiming when they formed in the first place). There has to be other reasons of why ASIA didn't tour the U.S. besides what's stated on Dave Gallant's book. I mean, lesser bands with few to no hits were touring the U.S. constantly at the time.

    Btw, Michael Sturgis is also featured on the 'AURA' album.
    Last edited by Gerardo; 05-19-2013 at 01:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ears View Post
    I think Ride the Tiger is a great name for a band. Greg's version of Love Under Fire is pretty good and, like the band with Gary Moore, RTT seems to have been another of his promising post-ELP projects which came to little.

    Check it Out and Blue Light on From the Underground II are credited to Greg Lake's Ride the Tiger.
    There's also one of the versions of "Love Under Fire" on 'From the Underground, Vol. 2; and you can find the other version of "Love Under Fire" along with "Money Talks" on 'From the Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective'. Personally, I really liked the song "Blue Light" on 'From the Underground, Vol. 2.

  13. #88
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    truth be told when i saw this on since the very day it was shown i was shocked that wetton didn't sing and has taken me a long time to warm up to him singing those song. two diff animals lake and wetton

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerardo View Post
    There's also one of the versions of "Love Under Fire" on 'From the Underground, Vol. 2; and you can find the other version of "Love Under Fire" along with "Money Talks" on 'From the Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective'. Personally, I really liked the song "Blue Light" on 'From the Underground, Vol. 2.
    Do you know how the two versions of Love Under Fire, on the Greg Lake compilations, are different? They appear very similar.

    I like everything on those Greg Lake albums, including the compelling tracks with Toto (despite the bright production). I would rather listen to Greg singing relatively weak material than modern singers singing anything. He really should have decided on a permanent band and persisted with them. It must have been hard to follow up ELP, but he is a GREAT singer and has spent far too long in the wilderness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ears View Post
    Do you know how the two versions of Love Under Fire, on the Greg Lake compilations, are different? They appear very similar.

    I like everything on those Greg Lake albums, including the compelling tracks with Toto (despite the bright production). I would rather listen to Greg singing relatively weak material than modern singers singing anything. He really should have decided on a permanent band and persisted with them. It must have been hard to follow up ELP, but he is a GREAT singer and has spent far too long in the wilderness.
    Yes, they are very similar, but I do hear the diffference between the two, especially in the mix. I agree with you completely on your second point.

  16. #91
    Thirded! It's always surprised me how meagre his output has been since ELP split each time

  17. #92
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    Wiki says six tracks were recorded for Ride the Tiger. These could be the following, but I must have missed something:

    1. Love Under Fire - two GL versions plus one by Asia, credited to Downes and Lake
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Underground II
    Love Under Fire by Asia for Aqua

    2. Affairs of the Heart later recorded by by ELP for Black Moon, credited to Lake and Downes

    3. Check it Out by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    4. Blue Light by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    5. Street War later recorded by ELP for n the Hot Seat and credited to Emerson and Lake
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  18. #93
    Admittedly lifted directly from Wikipedia... ( I recall hearing an interview with "the band" at the time of Then and Now where they spoke of the many reasons for including half of the songs from the original band and the rest new songs.. biggest was in Wetton's words " it's been a long time since we've been in the public's eye.. so we wanted to remind them of who we were vs. throwing a whole new album at them to digest".. another area I was unfamiliar with was that the material from the Manzanera/ Wetton album was intended for Asia.. I remember when I bought that album expecting so much more but being disappointed that it was "pop"... where as I thought the cuts on Then and Now fit the "Asia" model quite nicely)

    198591: Astra to the USSR

    The third Asia album Astra, released in November 1985, was not as commercially successful as the first two. The record label cancelled the projected tour because of lack of interest. Howe's replacement, Mandy Meyer of Krokus, provided more of a hard-rock approach. The band enjoyed a modest charting single, "Go" (No.46) with Meyer's guitar heroics centre stage. The music video was another hit with MTV. In 1986 this Asia line-up folded, bringing the group to an end for the time being. Singer/bassist/songwriter Wetton is quoted as saying "It [Astra] did really well in Sweden ... but Swedish sales aren't that large."

    Wetton resurfaced with a 1987 album with guitarist Phil Manzanera, Wetton-Manzanera, based on material that had been originally intended for Asia. Also in 1987, Wetton played with Phenomena on their Dream Runner album and landed a number one hit in South America with the Phenomena single "Did It All for Love", also appearing in the related music video. Asia were also credited with contributing the Giorgio Moroder produced track "Gypsy Soul" to the Sylvester Stallone film soundtrack to Over the Top, although Wetton was the only band member involved.

    Wetton and Downes' attempt to restart the group in 1987 with guitarist Scott Gorham (formerly of Thin Lizzy) and drummer Michael Sturgis (ex-a-ha) fizzled when they were unable to land a worldwide recording deal. Wetton and Palmer were more successful in reuniting the band for a few tours of Europe in the summer and fall of 1989. Downes (who was working on a project with Greg Lake) was not available at this time, so keyboards were played by John Young. Guitars on this tour were handled by Alan Darby (who was replaced shortly after by German guitarist Holger Larish) and Zoe Nicholas and Susie Webb were brought aboard to provide back-up vocals. Unlike Wetton's later anger at Asia continuing without him in the 1990s, this lineup was viewed favourably by other Asia band members.

    Asia returned to the studio in 1990 with Toto guitarist Steve Lukather and other musicians (see discography below) and released Then & Now, a best-of with four new tracks. "Days Like These" from the disc received substantial airplay during the summer of 1990 on AOR radio stations and re-sparked some interest in the band. Pat Thrall joined Downes, Palmer and Wetton on tour and they performed classic material, including King Crimson and U.K. songs. The band toured the Soviet Union in November 1990 to play in front of 20,000 fans on two sold out nights. "Days Like These" charted in the U.S. at No.64 in 1990 and climbed all the way to No.2 on the U.S. Album Rock Tracks chart. A video was planned but scrapped because various problems hampered the single's chance at the Top 40. Asia received the RIAA Gold album award for Then and Now many years later, but the initial response was modest as the album failed to dent the Top 100. A DVD and CD is available of the Asia concerts in the USSR. Wetton left in April 1991 after a South American tour, discouraged by Asia's lack of success in the U.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Ears View Post
    Wiki says six tracks were recorded for Ride the Tiger. These could be the following, but I must have missed something:

    1. Love Under Fire - two GL versions plus one by Asia, credited to Downes and Lake
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Underground II
    Love Under Fire by Asia for Aqua

    2. Affairs of the Heart later recorded by by ELP for Black Moon, credited to Lake and Downes

    3. Check it Out by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    4. Blue Light by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    5. Street War later recorded by ELP for n the Hot Seat and credited to Emerson and Lake

    You are missing "Money Talks" which you can find on 'From The Beginning:The Greg Lake Retrospective'

  20. #95
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    Thank you, Gerardo. This should be complete:

    Greg Lake's Ride the Tiger

    1. Love Under Fire - two GL versions plus one by Asia, credited to Downes and Lake
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Beginning: The Greg Lake Retrospective
    Love Under Fire by Greg Lake on From the Underground II
    Love Under Fire by Asia for Aqua

    2. Affairs of the Heart later recorded by by ELP for Black Moon, credited to Lake and Downes

    3. Check it Out by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    4. Blue Light by Greg Lake on From the Underground II

    5. Street War later recorded by ELP for n the Hot Seat and credited to Emerson and Lake

    6. Money Talks by Greg Lake on From the Beginning: The Greg Lake Retrospective
    Later recorded as Paper Blood by ELP for Black Moon

    When time permits, I'll add the musician credits.
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