Book publishing crisis

[sonic]

Hmmm, this doesn't bode well for the future of literature at all. Unlike music, the DIY route is not a good thing as it only leads to a market flooded with badly written books filled with grammatical and spelling errors. A professional publishing industry is really necessary to maintain standards in writing.

Book publishing crisis: Capitalism kills culture

Publishing teeters as Random House and Penguin plan to merge. It's time for a government policy to protect the arts

BY SCOTT TIMBERG

But the biggest issue is digital technology – e-books, Amazon, Kindles — which has put downward pressure on author advances, which now stand, by some estimates, at about half of what they were just four years ago. The digital revolution has effectively marginalized traditional publishers, as the center of financial gravity shifts from Manhattan to Silicon Valley and Seattle. “Like record labels, publishers have become arms suppliers in the cold war between technology companies,”Robert Levine writes in his 2011 book “Free Ride,” about the Internet’s damage to the culture business.

[East New York]

A professional publishing industry is really necessary to maintain standards in writing.

And then there's the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy...

(and that damn Pleistocene Porn series; great research, Ms. Auel, but you couldn't write your way out of a paper bag.)

[Dave the Brave]

Well I'm in the business and have 3 publishers I work for as a designer/typesetter and I'm getting all the business I can handle.

All are niche market publishers and now have me producing e-book versions of all the print books I produce.

D t B

[Dave the Brave]

And then there's the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy...

(and that damn Pleistocene Porn series; great research, Ms. Auel, but you couldn't write your way out of a paper bag.)[/QUOTE]

The first 3 of the series were pretty good but that last one was a load of trollop.

D t B

[Duncan Glenday]

...that damn Pleistocene Porn series...

[Corbie]

And then there's the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy...

(and that damn Pleistocene Porn series; great research, Ms. Auel, but you couldn't write your way out of a paper bag.)

I picked up one of the "Fifty..." books at the bookshop the other day, to see what the fuss was about. About two paragraphs in, the appalling prose froze my blood and I put it back on the shelf and got out of there. Also - and forgive me if I'm mistaken - but don't these stories make some sort of case for the female protagonist's submissive preferences being due to some kind of psychological issues? Childhood trauma or something? I mean... if that is the case, it's rather reactionary and unenlightened, isn't it? Can't we just take responsibility for our choices in the 21st Century?

Also, I misread that last sentence as "Plasticene Porn" which, thinking about, sounds like more fun. Where's Hard ma... sorry Aardman Animation when you need 'em?

[Trane]

Hmmm, this doesn't bode well for the future of literature at all. Unlike music, the DIY route is not a good thing as it only leads to a market flooded with badly written books filled with grammatical and spelling errors. A professional publishing industry is really necessary to maintain standards in writing.

I also think this is valid for music as well... We're in a niche for complex music, which does not really allow for spelling mistakes in music, but it's hjust as valid that there are plenty of mediocre (or average) albums being released through these alternative circuits...

And I don't really agree with the article's title saying that "capitalism kills culture"... I'm definitely left-winged, so anything blaming capitalism should find resonance with me... but here, it's not the case... the DIY is definitely not capitalism (and definitely NOT IMHO)...

While I didn't really like the major labels in any kind of artistic expression, but they did operate some kind of quality control (though one may argue it was way too severe and commercially-inclined)

Indeed, despite what we like to call 70's hidden or unearthed gems, less than 5% of those "labelled as such" albums can really compare to the 70's masterpieces we know...

Of course, what's lacking (or disappearing fast) nowadays is a middle ground, where small labels either go bankrupt (for whatever reasons) or get eaten by bigger fishes... Yes, in a way, I suppose that capitalim does kill culture in that precise way in the latter's event.

But to say they (the big firms) allowed flawed (written or musical) spelling mistakes is very often wrong...
They do produce flawless turds in huge numbers though!!!

[sonic]

I also think this is valid for music as well... We're in a niche for complex music, which does not really allow for spelling mistakes in music, but it's hjust as valid that there are plenty of mediocre (or average) albums being released tghough these alternative circuits...

The difference in my mind is that writing goes to the very heart of civilization. Well informed information and the intelligent, thoughtful expression of ideas and opinions is what holds modern society together in a relatively cohesive whole. While there has always been a lot of crap and misinformation out there, the few reputable publications and publishing houses have made sure that at least some of the cream rises to the top. Without that we are likely to be mired in a world of nothing but incomprehensible misinformation - and with it a reversion to dark age mentalities as populist doctrines drown out the voice of reason and intelligence altogether.
Music just does not have that effect on society as it is fundamentally just entertainment and will continue to thrive even in the hands of amateurs. 　

[Trane]

The difference in my mind is that writing goes to the very heart of civilization. Well informed information and the intelligent, thoughtful expression of ideas and opinions is what holds modern society together in a relatively cohesive whole. While there has always been a lot of crap and misinformation out there, the few reputable publications and publishing houses have made sure that at least some of the cream rises to the top. Without that we are likely to be mired in a world of nothing but incomprehensible misinformation - and with it a reversion to dark age mentalities as populist doctrines drown out the voice of reason and intelligence altogether.
Music just does not have that effect on society as it is fundamentally just entertainment and will continue to thrive even in the hands of amateurs. 　

I read you fine (despite the un-corrected spelling errors >> JK, of course ), but it really dsepends what kind oàf books we're discussing here... Fiction, novels, comics are 98% pure entertainement... yeah, some fiction can indeed give birth to some new train of thought, but so can TAAB's groundbreaking lyrics... (OK, I'm stretching it a bit )

Sure, of course the publishing industry's entertainement sector is probably XY% (enter anything between 20 and 60) of their overall activities...

So yeah, Kindle & Co will do the same damage than mp3 did to music... But it's because there are hundred of thousands arsehole that don't want to pay for books or music... it's not capitalism being the bad guy (well, it is ... but not the only one)... it's the absolute selfishness of the public and lack of acknowledgment of author's rights?...

It almost discourages you to publish anything in any medium, if you want to make an income from it... and that goes against the very definition of capitalism...

[sonic]

So yeah, Kindle & Co will do the same damage than mp3 did to music... But it's because there are hundred of thousands arsehole that don't want to pay for books or music... it's not capitalism being the bad guy (well, it is ... but not the only one)... it's the absolute selfishness of the public and lack of acknowledgment of author's rights?...

I think it's more about e companies destroying the business by pushing down prices than illegal downloaders in this case. From the article:

But the biggest issue is digital technology – e-books, Amazon, Kindles — which has put downward pressure on author advances, which now stand, by some estimates, at about half of what they were just four years ago.

Illegal downloaders may figure into the equation, but they don't have the same impact an industry giant like Amazon has. And it's questionable as to whether downloaders have had much effect on music sales in recent years when your average joe can just listen to an album on youtube (another giant).

[Trane]

I've had friends reading the latest Harry Potter on photocopies... THAT is what's killing the publishing industry

For the rest, if the authors get their AR from electronic version of their books, the problem is lesser

Don't get me wrong: just like for music, I'm not about to go for dematerialization... but in terms of book publishing in paper, apart from the loss of jobs, this might be good for the environement >> less trees cut down to make thousands of unsold books that will go to shredders to recycle the matter... Of course the recycling aspects of your Kindle or iPad is also an issue

Intyeresting topic !! Readya tomorrow

[sonic]

Don't get me wrong: just like for music, I'm not about to go for dematerialization... but in terms of book publishing in paper, apart from the loss of jobs, this might be good for the environement >> less trees cut down to make thousands of unsold books that will go to shredders to recycle the matter..

That's what was said when the computer took over desk work, but the opposite ended up being true — more paper is used than ever before. I guessing the ease of printing documents for everything down to the office memo is the culprit.

[East New York]

I picked up one of the "Fifty..." books at the bookshop the other day, to see what the fuss was about. About two paragraphs in, the appalling prose froze my blood and I put it back on the shelf and got out of there. Also - and forgive me if I'm mistaken - but don't these stories make some sort of case for the female protagonist's submissive preferences being due to some kind of psychological issues? Childhood trauma or something? I mean... if that is the case, it's rather reactionary and unenlightened, isn't it? Can't we just take responsibility for our choices in the 21st Century?

Here's the thing: yes, the prose is absolutely appalling. The female protagonist is the one without the issues---the male protagonist has 'em. The female protagonist (and, by the way, E. L. James: thanks loads for making a mockery of my birth name, you talentless fanfic-scrawler...not to mention the way in which you've also desecrated Thomas Tallis) sells herself short by wallowing in the whole "He can change! I can help him!" idiocy. That's offensive enough to me, but what's even worse is that the author has turned the fine art of BDSM into Coldplay: silly entertainment for bored housewives.

Also, I misread that last sentence as "Plasticene Porn" which, thinking about, sounds like more fun. Where's Hard ma... sorry Aardman Animation when you need 'em?

(cries with laughter)

[JKL2000]

Much as a lot of us will say we're not that concerned about the music industry and if all music goes digital because we have enough music to listen to for the rest of our lives, I have enough books to last me. I really don't need any new fiction. Basically most of what I want to read has already been written. I suppose with non-fiction something might come up that I need to read.

So as far as digital on-demand publishing (or as I still like to call it, "Vanity Press" publishing), I say let it flourish. I wouldn't be reading most of the stuff either way, though there are occasional self-published things I get, such as the books written by Neal Morse and the one about Guy Leblanc.

[Rune Blackwings]

why should i not diy? it's not like anyone would publish my stuff otherwise.

[ronmac]

DIY route is not a good thing as it only leads to a market flooded with badly written books filled with grammatical and spelling errors.

Considering how semi-literate the general populace is, will they even notice? Just look at how people post in online forums. People type phrases like "I should of known better," and, upon reading it, still don't notice that it makes no sense.

[sonic]

Considering how semi-literate the general populace is, will they even notice? Just look at how people post in online forums. People type phrases like "I should of known better," and, upon reading it, still don't notice that it makes no sense.

That's not the point though, is it? The point is that a reasonable standard is set that everyone should aspire to. The written word is the foundation of civilization. Without a reasonably high baseline for writing, society would crumble into a Tower of Babel scenario. Science and Law would not function without standards in writing.

[ronmac]

That's not the point though, is it? The point is that a reasonable standard is set that everyone should aspire to. The written word is the foundation of civilization. Without a reasonably high baseline for writing, society would crumble into a Tower of Babble scenario. Science and Law would not function without standards in writing.

Of course. But if the general population is unaware of what bad writing and grammar is the standard stays low or, worse yet, is accommodated by appealing to the lowest common denominator. Hell, look at popular music.

[notallwhowander]

That's not the point though, is it? The point is that a reasonable standard is set that everyone should aspire to. The written word is the foundation of civilization. Without a reasonably high baseline for writing, society would crumble into a Tower of Babble scenario. Science and Law would not function without standards in writing.

Most of civilization got on with an illiterate majority. One could say that the niceties of the language are under assault because more people are actually writing at whatever level of skill or education.

The key to the online thing is, of course, communities. This community acts as a filter/mediator for the vast amount of recorded music being produced today. There has got to be similar communities doing the same for writing. I couldn't tell you what it is, but then I haven't gone looking for it either. How well the highly curated and capitalized publishing businesses can cope side-by-side with these communities is the real question.

If I knew the answer, I bet it could make me a fair bit of coin.

[80s were ok]

Hmmm, this doesn't bode well for the future of literature at all. Unlike music, the DIY route is not a good thing as it only leads to a market flooded with badly written books filled with grammatical and spelling errors. A professional publishing industry is really necessary to maintain standards in writing.

what do you mean "Unlike Music"....every tom, dick and harry with a computer thinks they are recording artists. So much low quality music and plenty of low quality PROG music out there too especially on some of the smaller labels.

[sonic]

what do you mean "Unlike Music"....every tom, dick and harry with a computer thinks they are recording artists. So much low quality music and plenty of low quality PROG music out there too especially on some of the smaller labels.

True, but music does not facilitate communication in society. Even without good music society would still function. That is not the case with writing.

Most of civilization got on with an illiterate majority.

Also true. But is that kind of elitist world we want to live in? I think not. Well written materials, a solid education, being able to see the accurate use of what one has studied reflected in published materials all are part of the important base for knowledge and communication from which the arts and sciences grow and flourish.

[Trane]

That's not the point though, is it? The point is that a reasonable standard is set that everyone should aspire to. The written word is the foundation of civilization. Without a reasonably high baseline for writing, society would crumble into a Tower of Babble scenario. Science and Law would not function without standards in writing.

I don't know if you did it on purpose (if you did, I find it "à propos" and funny)... but this is exaxctly what I meant... a minimum of control about content (quality and a minimum of veracity, not speaking of censorship issues, here) and spelling is absolutely necessary, when it comes to a real book (nevermind the forum posting, where most don't go past re-reading themselves once >> I don't )

[Trane]

Most of civilization got on with an illiterate majority. One could say that the niceties of the language are under assault because more people are actually writing at whatever level of skill or education.

The key to the online thing is, of course, communities. This community acts as a filter/mediator for the vast amount of recorded music being produced today. There has got to be similar communities doing the same for writing. I couldn't tell you what it is, but then I haven't gone looking for it either. How well the highly curated and capitalized publishing businesses can cope side-by-side with these communities is the real question.

If I knew the answer, I bet it could make me a fair bit of coin.

How do you figure there is a web community that controls a minimum of quality check for music??? There is someone or some obscurre organisation overseeing all the myspaces, bandwcamps or spotifys of the www and censors what is not worthy of checkin out??

[notallwhowander]

How do you figure there is a web community that controls a minimum of quality check for music??? There is someone or some obscurre organisation overseeing all the myspaces, bandwcamps or spotifys of the www and censors what is not worthy of checkin out??

This community serves that function. We're constantly informing ourselves what's worth listening to. No one group controls the content of the entire web, but web-based communities serve themselves as a filters/mediators of what content is of interest and quality.

Compare and contrast this community's reaction to Blue Vino as a opposed to Big Big Train.

[Sean]

And then there's the Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy...

(and that damn Pleistocene Porn series; great research, Ms. Auel, but you couldn't write your way out of a paper bag.)

When I read that post I thought it said FILTHY Shades of Grey. Some of the girls at work said those books really melt their butter nicely (well, in so many words, swoons and puddles they implied it). Then again, they listen to Britney Spears too so I don't think great lit is what they are after to accompany their vibrators on a cold, autumn night.