Writing bass lines

[sonic]

I love Kraan. Awesome bass work! I don't find the bass lines hard to play but writing them is another story. As a guitarist I have a tendency to get too busy with the bass at times so want to learn how to create more effective bass lines. Yes, of course, have beautiful bass lines.
How's it done guys?

[Mikhael]

I tend to favour melodic moving lines that straddle the percussion and the chordal instruments. Don't be afraid to lock with the drums on a simple root when appropriate. A little study of walking jazz bass lines might help, too.

[rapidfirerob]

Too busy? Is that possible?

[Zeuhlmate]

Dunno if this is useful:

* Hellmut Hattler: Hip Bass 1995, AMA-Verlag, ISBN 978-3-927190-34-4
* Hellmut Hattler Songbook 2009, Bosworth Music, ISBN 978-3-86543-434-0

http://kraan.dk
http://www.danbbs.dk/~m-bohn/kraan/hattlerbass.htm

[No Pride]

If I write bass lines down at all (as opposed to chord symbols with rhythmic figures), they're generally intended to be mere suggestions. I try to work with bass players who are savvy and creative enough to elaborate on what I've written and come up with something more interesting. I consider it to be part of their job description after all!

[Wisdomview]

If I write bass lines down at all (as opposed to chord symbols with rhythmic figures), they're generally intended to be mere suggestions. I try to work with bass players who are savvy and creative enough to elaborate on what I've written and come up with something more interesting. I consider it to be part of their job description after all!

Same here, unless I'm playing the bass line myself. If I do play it, I tend to go melodic with the bass (synth or electric).

[fictionmusic]

I think the best way to approach bass lines is to incorporate a few concepts like horizontal considerations vs vertical considerations, supporting functions vs attention demanding functions and the ever popular leading to the next change function.

Horizontal functions are linear aspects. A lot of bass lines use them where the chord isn't really heard in the bass part. Instead the bassist uses a riff around a scale the chord would belong to. Think "Astral Traveller" by Yes, or "Suzie Q" by CCR, or "Funk 49" by The James Gang. etc. for that kind of bass line. They are busy lines but they sit under a chord nicely.
Vertical functions are more like "Heart of the Sunrise" (the walking part under the verse changes) You can hear the chord in almost every bar of the bass line (walking bass lines tend to favour that approach). Other examples like "All My Loving", or "All Blues" or "Footprints" have that same approach (although the latter two are more ostinato patterns than walking bass line, they both trace out the chord).

Supporting functions are those that do very little to attract attention to themselves and bolster the main harmonic part. "Listen to the Music" by The Doobie Brothers is like that. The bass perculates underneath the main gtr figure (and in fact on close examination doesn't even really follow all the changes, sticking instead to a root 5th on E even when the gtr player plays an A over it). "Long Cool Woman" is another great example of a supporting bass part. The gtrs are playing a very busy rhythm part but the bass just plays a simple root 5th against it. It clears a lot of space for the gtrs, but still propels the song along. Most of the bass parts on Neil Young's "Harvest" fill that function and even "America" by Yes has a lot of that kind of bass approach.

Bass lines that call attention to themselves are also typical of Chris Squire. On "Siberian Khatru" his bass isn't locking into the gtr part so much as countering it. Squire chooses a lot of syncopation for his note placement playing on beats where there isn't a lot of stuff going on. It is busy but not cluttered and is so tightly in the pocket, it accents the gtr part by making it more of a counterpoint than a unison thing.

Bass lines that telegraph changes (or lead to the next change) are typical in Led Zepplin. Often Jones plays a fixed riff but changes it up as he heads for the next chord. In music where there aren't a lot of chord changes that approach keeps the interest alive. "Living Loving Maid" abounds in that kind of thing in the middle section (the B section of the song throughout). A lot of guys like the sixth turnaround for that approach and Squire also uses it nicely in "No Experience Necessary" . In "America" Squire uses a big quarter note pulse on the root, but almost always does some kind of climb toward the next chord to build interest in the upcoming change.

Usually though it is the combination of all of these that make it work. "Listen to the Music" (a song I really don't care for) has some great examples of all of those things; a supporting root 5th kind of bass line to start, some real movement in places where the melody is sparse, some great suggestions to the next chord coming up, some scaler riffing when a chord stays static for two bars etc etc.


Ray Shulman's playing has all these things in spades. The live version of "On Reflection" is a text-book case of mixing them up as is Squire's performance in "America". Their bass lines support, then fill, then telgraph changes, play fixed riffs, trace out chords, come out of the groove to whack you in the ear with some clever business and then retire back into the pocket again. I'd say a large part of the attraction GG, Yes and Led Zep have for me is the brilliance of the bass parts.

[sonic]

Great post fictionmusic! That will give me plenty of food for thought...and homework listening exercises.

I think I'll put those all on my ipod today.

[Jefferson James]

David, thanks for the great write-up detailing the different approaches. Nice to see that kind of stuff in writing with examples.

I started out on guitar (it's still what I like playing most) so when I went on to play bass my playing was colored by that. The first thing I latched on to was tracing chords (pretending I was doing a bar chord on guitar, plucking the individual bass notes rather than strumming, and just moving that around the fretboard); having some lead guitar abilities I was able to do bass "fills" and "telegraphing" off the top so I got off to a pretty quick start.

For me, these days, the hardest thing is just laying back and holding down an unwavering groove; of course the music my band writes isn't groove-oriented in the sense of "just jam in E for awhile" but there are places where I *could* go crazy(ier) but the more I listen, the more I think I should pull it back a bit.

There are always things I need to work on.

[syncopatico]

It should be noted that most of the contrapuntal, (more) syncopated basslines played by Chris Squire and Ray Shulman involved them using a plectrum...

[everythingtoexcess]

I always try to use the bass as a way to tie the drums into the rest of the instruments. Frequently, I'll develop a rhythmic idea that works with the drums--one where the established rhythmic idea is accented in places. Sometimes (often, I guess) that process makes me go back and change the drums. Then I start changing notes to make the groove fit musically. Any melodic ideas that start to come out will then make me go back and re-examine the rhythmic idea AGAIN. Is it any wonder that I have songs that took nearly a decade to complete? That's probably totally wrong, but it's how I do it. I'm 1.) not a bass player and 2.) REALLY not a drummer. The hardest thing for me to learn has been that, no matter how TOTALLY KICK ASS and COMPOSITONALLY PERFECT everything I come up with is (and, as far as I know, it is.) when I give it to Greg Jones and Bill Fox, it will change. Always for the better. Getting to trust them to do the right thing took me a shamefully long time.

[trurl]

The only thing I can add to think about is something I've noticed lately having to program some bass lines... the trope of the bass always locking with the kick drum. It's often a nice, tight, great sound to do that but I don't think it happens in rock nearly as much of the time as a lot of people think. (And of course, in prog- fuggedaboutit ) Very often the bass will be busier than the kick, playing more notes as it were, but sometimes the bass plays less notes than a kick drum pattern and sometimes it's in complete counterpart to where the kick is hitting. Beware though, doing that can royally f**k up a groove, but sometimes it's awesome. The bassline can lose its identity in the kick drum if it follows too slavishly, and I've found it's often good to hold notes and play sparser than my instinct expects. Let your conscience be your guide... I like your post too, fiction! Lots to think about there.

[Yodelgoat]

I try to listen to the song about 300 times, get all the parts in my head, and then I start humming parts - counter melodies, follow different parts, sometimes the guitars, sometimes the vocal lines, sometimes the drums, like a guy jumping on different bus lines trying to see everything he can. Then I ask myself: What would Chris Squire, or Gary Thaine - or Barry Oakley do? Then I do what the guitarist says... and play the root note of the chord.

[Mikhael]

One thing I should mention - guitar is my first instrument, although I'm pretty good on bass and drums (played those in bands as well). So, in order to make myself shift into bass mode, I *always* put the pick away and pluck with my fingers, as most bassists do. It forces me to think differently, and I end up paying attention to the rhythmic portion of the songs much closer. It's just a trick to get me out of guitar mode, but it works.

I also play a fretless almost exclusively, and that also takes me out of guitar mode.

[progmatist]

Using a pick is pretty much a requirement for that classic prog bass sound. I myself can play in a more fluid manner using my fingers, but use a pick instead because I love that Geddy Lee/Chris Squire twang. On DVD 2 of Syzygy's A Glorious Disturbance, Sam and Carl joked about how they gave their new jazz bassist a pick.

[Jefferson James]

The bassline can lose its identity in the kick drum if it follows too slavishly

I was part of a project where the main guy was totally anal about lining up every kick and bass note; the final product sounded really tight, Steely Dan tight, but it was also lacking something -- humanity.

I always play with a pick, the same one's I use on guitar; lots of times I will palm the pick to use my fingers during low-key or quiet sections. The thing I love about my Rick 4001 is, with a pick, the sensitivity is amazing; by using the pick really aggressively and striking the string(s) hard it really jumps out.

One last thing: my favorite thing about playing bass is how sometimes the bass, just by playing a weird note underneath, can change the entire feeling of a passage. That's a lot of power, to be able to change the way the melodic instruments are perceived with an unorthodox bass line underneath. I find it fascinating and it's not something I can turn off or on at will, it just happens sometimes. I love it when it does.

[Scott Bails]

I myself can play in a more fluid manner using my fingers, but use a pick instead because I love that Geddy Lee/Chris Squire twang.

Geddy plays with his fingers, right?

[trurl]

One last thing: my favorite thing about playing bass is how sometimes the bass, just by playing a weird note underneath, can change the entire feeling of a passage. That's a lot of power, to be able to change the way the melodic instruments are perceived with an unorthodox bass line underneath. I find it fascinating and it's not something I can turn off or on at will, it just happens sometimes. I love it when it does.

Oh totally, you can make a chord a different chord, whether they like it or not *lol* That's a very prog thing, to have a chord sequence and change it only through the bass notes to something else...

[Modry Effekt]

zzzz

[progmatist]

Geddy plays with his fingers, right?

Yes, but he uses his nails as picks. I wish I could do the same, but my nails are too fragile.

[sonic]

Yes, but he uses his nails as picks. I wish I could do the same, but my nails are too fragile.

I use my nails to play the guitar. I can use a pick, but I prefer nails except for doing fast trills where a pick is needed.

[No Pride]

Oh totally, you can make a chord a different chord, whether they like it or not *lol* That's a very prog thing, to have a chord sequence and change it only through the bass notes to something else...

That kind of stuff is built in to my tunes. About the only time I'll ever use a triad is if it's a first or second inversion or has a bass note that's not a part of the triad, like D/C, E/F#, A/F... that sort of thing. It's nice when the bass player understands the harmony and is able to throw fills that work over those kind of chords once in a while.

[CarvinAbuser]

I know what you mean, I'd like to be able to play like John Paul Jones or Paul McCartney myself.

[spknoevl]

I think you really need to listen to the masters, or at the very least, the bass players who's playing you like the most and then try to break down what they are doing and what their approach is.

[Sean]

bass, just by playing a weird note underneath, can change the entire feeling of a passage. That's a lot of power, to be able to change the way the melodic instruments are perceived with an unorthodox bass line underneath. I find it fascinating and it's not something I can turn off or on at will, it just happens sometimes. I love it when it does.

I really love this as well. I'm a guitarist not a bass player. That said, I find when I am recording my songs I like to lay the bass line down as well. I know the chords better than anyone else does so it just works. My hope is to have a real bass player redo them and keep the best bits, thing is, the more I listen to the songs the more I like what I did. I'd hate to have someone better lay down their parts and not like them and have to tell them so. So I am on the fence there. But yes, you can lay down a tune chordally and once you lay the bass line down the whole character of each passage changes in a major way. Power indeed! I use pick and play in a Squire meets McCartney mode. I like the bass to play some melodies instead of the guitar too. Just a few notes have so much more weight as a hook than the same thing played on a guitar. Love that!