New Turntable Old vinyl

[aplodon]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think it may be a good idea to spend some money on a good pickup.

I now have a Pro-ject Xperience




and an Ortofon Rondo Red




Don't remember exactly what I payed for it, but I think it may be a bit over your budget (but I have no idea of the prices over there). Anyway. I think about half of the price was for the pickup, which is my point.

It sounds great, anyway. I used to have an old Micro Seiki from the 70s, with a budget pickup from Audio Technica, so the comparison may be a bit unfair.

I did, however, have a Pro-ject Debut in my house for testing before I went for the more expensive alternative. The Debut was a big disappointment. I had heard good things about it, but it sounded much worse than my old 70s turntable. I tried the Debut with the same pickup as I had on my old turntable, and also with the one that came with it. Both setups sounded quite harsh and brittle, a lot worse than my old setup. Not at all the sound you expect from vinyl.

The Xperience/Rondo Red combination, on the other hand, was a big step up from my old equipment. I don't know if, or how much of, the difference between the P-j Debut and the P-j Xperience setup depends on the turntable itself and how much depends on the pickup, but I would assume it's mostly the pickup. Can't imagine the difference between two turntables of the same brand being that big, even though there is a certain difference in price. Hence my conclusion to spend a good deal of your budget on the pickup. Maybe some more Xperienced vinyl users can comfirm or neglect this.

[strawberrybrick]

Very nice. I have the Audio-Technica knock off of the Technics 1200, and that same Ortofon 2M Blue. Bass is solid, and the highs are very detailed without being brittle or harsh. I would bet your Pro-Ject has much less rumble and slightly better tracking.

I'm also using a Musical Fidelity V-LPS phono stage. What I notice the most about the turntable is that shitty pressings just absolutely sound shitty, and great pressings (like that original Yes Fragile Atlantic SD7211) sound marvelous!

FYI to others, The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is an upgraded version, with a new tonearm, upgraded suspension, larger platter, and comes with an Ortofon 2M Red.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en

[Jubal]

I'm also using a Musical Fidelity V-LPS phono stage. What I notice the most about the turntable is that shitty pressings just absolutely sound shitty, and great pressings (like that original Yes Fragile Atlantic SD7211) sound marvelous!

FYI to others, The Pro-ject Debut Carbon is an upgraded version, with a new tonearm, upgraded suspension, larger platter, and comes with an Ortofon 2M Red.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.ph...tables&lang=en

A good phono preamp would probably provide substantial improvement to what I have. I use the built in (the turntable has a switch for USB or standard phono output) preamp.
BTW, what color did you go with on the Pro-ject?

[strawberrybrick]

A good phono preamp would probably provide substantial improvement to what I have. I use the built in (the turntable has a switch for USB or standard phono output) preamp.
BTW, what color did you go with on the Pro-ject?

White, please look at the picture in the OP. The guys at the store were all oohhing-ahhing about it!

[enpdllp]

I'm not an expert on this, but I think it may be a good idea to spend some money on a good pickup.

I now have a Pro-ject Xperience

click for larger image:

Attachment 294

and an Ortofon Rondo Red




Don't remember exactly what I payed for it, but I think it may be a bit over your budget (but I have no idea of the prices over there). Anyway. I think about half of the price was for the pickup, which is my point.

It sounds great, anyway. I used to have an old Micro Seiki from the 70s, with a budget pickup from Audio Technica, so the comparison may be a bit unfair.

I did, however, have a Pro-ject Debut in my house for testing before I went for the more expensive alternative. The Debut was a big disappointment. I had heard good things about it, but it sounded much worse than my old 70s turntable. I tried the Debut with the same pickup as I had on my old turntable, and also with the one that came with it. Both setups sounded quite harsh and brittle, a lot worse than my old setup. Not at all the sound you expect from vinyl.

The Xperience/Rondo Red combination, on the other hand, was a big step up from my old equipment. I don't know if, or how much of, the difference between the P-j Debut and the P-j Xperience setup depends on the turntable itself and how much depends on the pickup, but I would assume it's mostly the pickup. Can't imagine the difference between two turntables of the same brand being that big, even though there is a certain difference in price. Hence my conclusion to spend a good deal of your budget on the pickup. Maybe some more Xperienced vinyl users can comfirm or neglect this.

The comparison between the Debut and Xperience is quite unfair. Very different designs (Platter construction, motors, pulley system, etc.), plus the Xperience is about three times the price of the Debut.

It is always a good idea to spend some money on a pickup for your turntable, but not at the expense of the turntable. Although it sounds good to buy a great pickup for your turntable, I think it is better to buy the best turntable you could on your price range and a good solid pickup than an OK turntable and a pricier pickup. An expensive pickup will extract more data from your records, but it will also show up the limitations of your lesser turntable to a greater degree. The more expensive turntables usually have quieter motors, better isolation between platter and motor, better bearings, etc. Over spending on a pickup is like buying Pirelli tires for a Yugo. The Pirelli's will have more grip than the original tires, but the car's suspension will limit the extra grip from the Pirelli's.

[rcarlberg]

Vinyl ROCKS!

[claycorn]

i have a sanyo tp 1005 very nice modelvlcsnap-2012-08-14-01h40m18s71.jpg

[jazzcat]

I'm very happy with my Rega.

[enpdllp]

I'm very happy with my Rega.

Which model you have? Any after market upgrades?

[tom unbound]

I used to have a Technics linear-tracking turntable.

Ah, yes. I had one for years. I used to call it my 'Kenner Close-and-Play'. Never gave me a bit of trouble.

[strawberrybrick]

It is always a good idea to spend some money on a pickup for your turntable, but not at the expense of the turntable. Over spending on a pickup is like buying Pirelli tires for a Yugo. The Pirelli's will have more grip than the original tires, but the car's suspension will limit the extra grip from the Pirelli's.

Yep, overspending in general isn't a good idea. I bought the Carbon Debut because it was in line with the rest of my system, and it's an updated model that improved what was already a good product; I don't think I could justify spending $1000+ on a turntable, considering my phono-preamp (Musical Fidelity), receiver (Marantz)and listening room!

That said, I recently upgraded my main speakers (PSB Synchrony B) so things are sound pretty darn good!

[rapidfirerob]

Yep, overspending in general isn't a good idea. I bought the Carbon Debut because it was in line with the rest of my system, and it's an updated model that improved what was already a good product; I don't think I could justify spending $1000+ on a turntable, considering my phono-preamp (Musical Fidelity), receiver (Marantz)and listening room!

That said, I recently upgraded my main speakers (PSB Synchrony B) so things are sound pretty darn good!

I don't have money to upgrade my turntable. I have an old Onkyo receiver that sounds fine, and still love my JBL L40s. This system is in our bedroom, so anything more would be overkill really. I listen and practice in this room with the door closed, so the wife and teenage daughter don't complain, usually.

[Staun]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

[enpdllp]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

Not easy to tell which cartridge would work better with your system without knowing what turntable you have and how much money you want to spend. Synergy between components is a big factor and sometimes trumps specs or price in component selection. Type of music also plays a smaller role in cartridge selection. Some audio stores have programs where you could ask for loaners or offer you to exchange the cartridge if it did not worked with your system. Music Direct and Needle Doctor offer very knowledgeable staff that can guide you with your needle compatibility questions and they also offer a 30 day return policy if you are not satisfied with your purchase.

[FrippWire]

When I got involved with vinyl again about 5 years ago I bought a new Rega P1 turntable and installed an Ortofon cartridge. Not sure what model the Ortofon was. I wore the P1 out in about 18 months so I upgraded to a Music Hall MMF 5.1 SE with an Ortofon Mojo cartridge. Sounds pretty good when combo'd with my McIntosh amp & preamp -- solid state amplification because I can't afford McIntosh tube amps.

[rottersclub]

I've got a Sumiko Blue Point 2 MC cartridge. It's very quiet, but it seems rather flat sounding. Looking for an MC cart with about the same output but alittle more beef behind it. Channal separation could be better as I believe this one is 32. Suggestions?

Just a few off the top of my head (in what I suspect is the same price range as the Sumiko):

Dynavector 10X (MC high output)
Grado Reference or Statement Series
Benz Micro MC Gold or Silver
Clearaudio Aurum or Performer
Denon DL-103R

[simon moon]

Long time Vinyl fan here. About 25% of my listening is vinyl, 75% digital.

There are still somethings that vinyl does better than digital. The reproduction of soundstage, as an example.

Here's a few random opinions on some of the things I've read on this thread.

1. Vacuum record cleaners make an audible difference on most records. Even if the record has very few clicks and pops. There are various molds that live in the groves of records that grunge up the mids and highs. A vacuum record cleaner will clean this out. The better the equipment, the more noticeable the improvement.

2. The Spin Clean is a great value. It is not quite as good as a vacuum machine, but much better then nothing. A great compromise between expensive vacuums machine and the Spin Clean is the KAB EV-1. It is built for KAB by Nitty Gritty, but you supply your own vacuum. $169 is a steal!

A friend has the entry level VPI machine (over $600.00) and he swears by it. Says he's hearing things he never heard before. Another friend in the used-record business says they are not worth it. A little alcohol in a spray bottle of water and a lint-free cloth is all you need.

Your friend's experience hearing new things is not unusual. He's probably cleaning out the molds I mentioned earlier.

A record groove is about 0.035 millimeters wide (min). A stylus is similar width. A mold/mildew particle is about .01 - .03 millimeters. It doesn't take rocket science to understand that mold will negatively effect the sound quality. Dust particles that may be too small to hear as actual clicks will also negatively effect sound quality.

3. A well cleaned record that has been treated well will have very low surface noise. Surface noise, in my experience is vastly exaggerated. Poorly designed turntables will also tend to accentuate surface noise because their plinths and stamped aluminum platters are highly resonant and poor at damping. All those cheap direct drive TT's are notorious for this.

4. Anyone that has a cheap direct drive TT with plastic hollow plinth (Gemini, mid level Technics, Stanton, etc) will see an (not trivial) improvement with some minor 'tweaks'. For example, open the TT up and put as much Plast-I-Clay on as many surfaces of the plinth as possible (without interfering with any mechanisms of course) to decrease unwanted resonances. I've personally done this for several friends and the improvement was immediately noticeable. Check out this thread on audiocircle.com for other minor twaeks - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=29618.0

5. Anyone with a Technics 1200 that wants to take it to the next level that will rival many high end tables, check out KAB's mods. http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/m1200.htm

[Romerovm]

Pro-ject Debut Carbon, with Ortofon 2M Blue (which was an upgrade). My "70s stereo" has an old Technics direct-drive!

A great cartridge you got there.

[BakerStMuse]

Denon DL-103R

Have this one and love it.

My only concern is that you can't switch out the stylus without replacing the whole thing. That said I have been running it for almost two years and heavy usage and have not noticed any degradation in sound.

--
Greg

[enpdllp]

My only concern is that you can't switch out the stylus without replacing the whole thing. That said I have been running it for almost two years and heavy usage and have not noticed any degradation in sound.

--
Greg

You are not able to replace the stylus on most higher end cartridges. Some brands will give you credit if you turn your old cartridge when you buy a new one.

[georob]

Anyone have any recommendations for purchase of a new turntable/cartridge setup for less than $1000?
I'm looking for "where to buy" (online, of course...nobody stocks these anymore) and "what to buy"..

Thanks to all for their turntable recommendations !!!

[aplodon]

I just saw that Rega Research RP3 was awarded Analog source component of the year 2012 by Stereophile.
Retail price $1095, including cartridge. So that should fit your budget pretty well.
.

[JKL2000]

I used to use rubbing alcohol to clean my records, and it always seemed to work fine. I was told to use that instead of that record cleaning solution. Was this good advice, or insanity?

[strawberrybrick]

^ That turntable is gorgeous.

[enpdllp]

I used to use rubbing alcohol to clean my records, and it always seemed to work fine. I was told to use that instead of that record cleaning solution. Was this good advice, or insanity?

Rubbing alcohol is not recommended for cleaning records. It has some impurities that could be left on the record during the record cleaning process. If you are going to use alcohol to clean your records, get isopropyl alcohol that is at least 90% pure. I pointed out a few DIY record cleaning recipes earlier on this thread if you don't want to spend too much money on commercial record cleaning solutions. FWIW, do not use any kind of alcohol to clean 78 recordings. Use pure distilled water for those.