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Thread: Joni Mitchell's Health

  1. #51
    Member Dok's Avatar
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    http://jonimitchell.com/library/view...68&from=search

    "In spring 2005, Randy Wymore, associate professor of pharmacology at Oklahoma State University, stumbled across an article about morgellons. Reading about the fibres sufferers believed were the byproduct of some weird parasite, but which were dismissed by dermatologists as humdrum environmental detritus, he thought, "But this should be easy to figure out." He emailed sufferers, requesting samples, then compared them with samples of cotton, nylon, carpets and curtains. Examining them under the microscope, he got a shock. The sufferers' fibres looked utterly different.

    Wymore arranged for fibre analysis at the Tulsa police department's forensic laboratory. Moments into his tests, a detective with 28 years' experience of this sort of work murmured, "I don't think I've ever seen anything like this." The morgellons particles didn't match any of the 800 fibres on their database, nor the 85,000 known organic compounds. He heated one fibre to 600C and was astonished to find it didn't burn. By the day's end, Wymore concluded, "There's something real going on here. Something we don't understand at all.""

  2. #52
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    ^ Well, I'm convinced.

  3. #53
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    Yes, people. Let's write off Joni's pain as being 'all in her head' and tell her to pull her socks up. Because that's the only way to deal with 'mentals', right?
    Classy. Very classy.
    Last edited by sonic; 05-02-2013 at 09:41 AM.

  4. #54
    I have not seen anyone here make fun of Joni. Clearly, something is going on. But it cannot be Morgollon's, because right now that disease does not exist. In response the note about fibers, all fibers ever examined by medical researchers have been found to be known fibers and easily explained. I would take the comment above with a grain of salt since it comes from Joni's website.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    I have not seen anyone here make fun of Joni. Clearly, something is going on. But it cannot be Morgollon's, because right now that disease does not exist. In response the note about fibers, all fibers ever examined by medical researchers have been found to be known fibers and easily explained. I would take the comment above with a grain of salt since it comes from Joni's website.
    +1

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    You're kidding, right? Stigma and discrimination have no bounds against the mentally ill. In Canada, Parliament sponsored a national commission and produced a report called, "Out of the Shadows". What do you think the title implies? Numerous testimonies from consumers, NFP organizations, health experts all have similar perspectives about stigma and discrimination. When you consider how many people suffer from a mental illness in the workforce, is is openly discussed, hardly? Do people discuss mental health problems in social situations in the same way they discuss heart, liver, kidney problems or other physical health issues? Hi, I'm schizophrenic and how are you? I suggest you speak to someone with a mental illlness or read about agencies who are advocates. I'm shocked by your perspective.
    You're shocked by my perspective? You claimed that "We live in a society where it's still OK to make fun of the mentally ill." I merely questioned that claim. You don't even know my perspective. I don't know anyone who thinks it's okay.

  7. #57
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    Yes, people. Let's write off Joni's pain as being 'all in her head' and tell her to pull her socks up. Because that's the only way to deal with mentals, right?
    Classy. Very classy.
    No one here has done that.

    Cool your jets.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  8. #58
    I suppose labeling them "mentals" isn't considered derogatory in some parts of the world?

  9. #59
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    I suppose labeling them "mentals" isn't considered derogatory in some parts of the world?
    That was the point. Sarcasm.
    I just find it disparaging that people are focused on whether or not the disease is real rather than focused on what could be done to help her.

  10. #60
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    That was the point. Sarcasm.
    I just find it disparaging that people are focused on whether or not the disease is real rather than focused on what could be done to help her.
    Considering that none of us is her doctor, there's nothing we can do to help her. So, like anything else on this board, we speculate and draw conclusions - just like we do when we talk about the motivations behind replacing Jon Anderson in Yes.

    The issue of interest is whether she has a real physical ailment or whether she has some sort of mental disorder - that's the "hook" of the story.

    Be outraged all you want at your perceived flippancy of her condition, but you can't help her any more than the rest of us.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  11. #61
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Just reading this thread makes me itchy.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    That was the point. Sarcasm.
    I just find it disparaging that people are focused on whether or not the disease is real rather than focused on what could be done to help her.
    MIght want to use quotes like you did with "all in her head" next time. It didn't quite read as sarcasm. But, hey, I digress.

  13. #63
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    I've got fibers all over me! Oh, wait! It's just my Yes T-shirt!

  14. #64
    This was an interesting quote from an article I read today- by Jim Emerson, on the Ebert website: "When faced with a choice between facts and feelings, our natural inclination is to believe what we want to believe. Astrology or psychic experiences, racist fantasies or Holocaust denial — they all stem from the same warped, delusional thought processes, usually driven by insecurity, paranoia and a desire to exert control over events that make the believers feel impotent, frightened, angry. " Now, I do not think what is going on with Joni is the same as these extreme examples here, but we often badly want to explain the unexplainable. And diagnosis has power; I am a doc in real life, and in real life I know that men often refuse to go to the doctor when they have a medical problem. So long as they do not go, they don't have a disease. If they do, and a diagnosis is confirmed, it changes everything. Yesterday they were fine (even if in pain), and today they are a cancer victim. Calling it Morgollon's gives an answer to what is otherwise unexplainable. Even if so doing really explains nothing, if you think about it. Enough philosophizing for today! :-)
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  15. #65
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    You're shocked by my perspective? You claimed that "We live in a society where it's still OK to make fun of the mentally ill." I merely questioned that claim. You don't even know my perspective. I don't know anyone who thinks it's okay.
    I did not say that it's okay to make fun of the mentally ill. I did, however, misread your post. My apologies.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound (2112)

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    warped, delusional thought processes, usually driven by insecurity, paranoia
    And without these there would not be human creativity, and prog.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I did not say that it's okay to make fun of the mentally ill. I did, however, misread your post. My apologies.
    No need to apologize. I realize you didn't claim it was okay, but you claimed that society felt that way. I still disagree with that (for those above high school age, that is). But, hey, we all have different perspectives.

  18. #68
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I've never watched the show, so I have no idea how credible it is, but The Science Channel has a show called The Unexplained Files on at 10:00 ET tonight that will discuss Morgellons.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  19. #69
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    I've never watched the show, so I have no idea how credible it is, but The Science Channel has a show called The Unexplained Files on at 10:00 ET tonight that will discuss Morgellons.
    In 2008 the CDC did some research, and confirmed the generally-held view of Morgellons as "delusional parasitosis."
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 09-25-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  20. #70
    No comment on Joni, but I think this demonstrates how powerful a viral- and I mean this in the sense of the internet- phenomenon can be. Without the 'net, there would be no Morgollon's, no MRF, and no adherents. Just like you can find a site to support whatever belief you have- whether realistic or not- you can find sites that defend the indefensible.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    The reverse is much more likely - mental illness to drugs as a coping mechanism. Drugs don't really "cause" mental illness unless there is an underlying condition.
    And the opposite of both of those statements has just as much support from the medical community.

  22. #72
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    Just like you can find a site to support whatever belief you have-
    True dat. The internet is a cesspool of misinformation, all swirled together with lots of real facts, and it takes a healthy dose of reality-based skepticism to know the difference.

    Unfortunately many currents in our society today -- from global warming deniers to supply siders to FNC -- promote non-reality-based thinking.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    True dat. The internet is a cesspool of misinformation, all swirled together with lots of real facts, and it takes a healthy dose of reality-based skepticism to know the difference.

    Unfortunately many currents in our society today -- from global warming deniers to supply siders to FNC -- promote non-reality-based thinking.
    Amen, brother!

  24. #74
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    Yeah, that is bad to hear, I always enjoyed most of her music. I was listening to her Night Ride Home album, which is well made. As far as her mental condition, it's too bad. I do think drugs can cause psychosis. I had a friend back in the early 70's eat a hamburger full of acid, tripped out and stabbed a woman to death in a 7-11. He was heavy into drug use at the time, and had he not gone that route, I think he might not have had such a tragic life, but like a lot of things in life it took its toll.

    The odd thing about psychology is that all that stuff is so hard to diagnosis. I have a cousin that has some sort of mental illness, which I don't think runs in that part of my family medical history. I don't know what he has as his family never made him go through with analysis--now he's beyond that, but at least he's on state support. But he can't make much of a normal conversation--his mind seems to have some sort of mania. I've never known him to be violent as with some schizophrenics.

    I used to date a woman with bipolar too, which was difficult. It was hard to get a handle on that too, as it seemed at times there were other conditions: multiple personalities, etc.

    At any rate, it's a hard thing to deal with in all respects for the person it's affecting and those they rely on.

  25. #75
    Member Casey's Avatar
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    Interesting read.

    I've had 2 such patients in my almost 30 years as a physician. Several years ago I met a retired Navy veteran who suffered from delusional parasitosis. I discovered he was being bilked by some charlatan in Boston for monthly "treatments." I tried many times to gently turn this man away from his delusion but his delusion was stronger than my skill of persuasion. The mind is a very powerful thing, indeed. It's a shame that the "alien butt probe" (unsterilized, of course) couldn't be reserved for the charlatan.

    I believe mental illness still has an aura of stigma attached to it. The reasons why the stigma arose are as multifactorial as are why it remains. The bottom line is ignorance. Humankind evolves, & a crucial ingredient of that evolution is acquiring new knowledge. A few people enjoy remaining ignorant. I steer away from those who look upon mental illness as a sign of weakness.
    I've got a bike you can ride it if you like

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