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Thread: Deluge Grander

  1. #26
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    He's a member here....I would like to hear his take on the approach if possible ....

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    He's a member here....I would like to hear his take on the approach if possible ....
    https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...ghlight=Deluge

  3. #28
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    Hi everyone- thanks for talking about this music at all! Regarding Oceanarium, there were indeed some special circumstances that contributed to the admittedly murky sound. First, I recorded most of it in my basement with my 0 to 2 year old son while I was hoping for him to fall asleep. I didn't realize it at the time, but I probably unconsciously tried to make a lot of the music sound quiet and distant so that he'd fall and stay asleep, and I just got used to hearing it that way. I was also using some not-so-great software and recorded a lot of it with some low-gain settings. In the mastering stages, I knew the songs sounded a bit quiet, but since I usually listen to music one-album-at-a-time, I figured people could just turn up the volume if they wanted. Virtually every album I've done has had this issue to some extent. Unfortunately, when I plopped the finished CD into my car stereo (which I stopped listening to my own music on, since it keeps me from focusing on driving), I noticed the issue was more severe than I had thought- on some systems, it really does sound distant, in a bad way. The two systems I usually listened to it on before it was finished actually sounded ok to me when I had the volume loud enough.

    So those are my excuses! I do regret not trying to make it sound louder, and I also regret not adding more reverb, but I regret things about pretty much every album I've been involved with. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that it seems like only about 10-40 percent of people notice or care about this issue. As far as I can tell, it depends a lot on speakers and of course on what listeners are expecting- if a listener is accustomed to modern metal, it will definitely sound quiet, in a bad way. But for someone who at least listens to some classical music, older jazz, or pre-1995 CDs, I hope this issue probably won't matter so much.

    By the way, the next Deluge Grander album, "Lunarians," will be released very soon. I've actually had all the CDs and records ready to go for a few months- I was just hoping Covid would die down, but since it looks like that probably won't happen, I'm probably going to release it in a week or two anyway. It's called "Lunarians," and will be released as a regular jewel-case CD and in an LP/CD format with hand-painted artwork and handwritten lyrics (283 copies), similar to "Heliotians" from 2014. Most of the music from "Oceanarium" was based on ideas from "Heliotians" and "Lunarians" (HeliOTIANS + LunARIANS ~ OCEANARIUM), but most listeners probably won't notice much repetition among these three albums. I *think* it sounds better than "Oceanarium," but at this point, I honestly can't be objective about it at all.

    Thanks again for listening to and talking about this music!

  4. #29
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Great to hear new DG music is on the way!
    Please don't ask questions, just use google.

    Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.

    I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.

  5. #30
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    New Deluge Grander on the way!? Well that made my week.

  6. #31
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Great news! I love Oceanarium.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnieper View Post
    Hi everyone- thanks for talking about this music at all!
    Hey Dan. It's always great to have the person who created the music around to discuss it with us! And thanks for the info on what's happening behind the scenes. As your son gets older surely he'll want dad to crank it up!
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  8. #33
    And I was having a chat yesterday about not having heard from you in a while Dan. Great news! I hope there is some digital form of Lunarians, for the poor people like me who cannot afford anymore postage costs, customs etc.

    And I wouldn't worry too much about the sound. It's the content that matters, and in your case it outweighs easily any other issues.

  9. #34
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Great news, Dan! Looking forward to the new album.
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  10. #35
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the insight Dan. I dig the production and am getting into the muzak too. Congrats on finishing another album.

  11. #36
    Yeah, thanks for the info Dan! I really like Oceanarium and Helotians, so the fact that the new DG album is finished and ready to go is great news. Though sorry to hear that the coronavirus has messed up your plans for it.

  12. #37
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    I have a great deal of love for "Autumn In The Urals" and "Oceanarium". I never felt that the sound production let me down; everything always sounds great. My main curiosity lies in the fact that there is little talk about "The Form Of The Good", which is on my list for next time purchase.

    What's the PE member take on "The Form Of The Good"?

  13. #38
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Its a fine album. If you like August in the Urals you really cannot go wrong with this one. Especially 'the epic with the difficult title' is great.

  14. #39
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    Its a fine album. If you like August in the Urals you really cannot go wrong with this one.
    I agree. I think if you like one DG album, you basically like them all, and I'd extend that to Birds & Buildings as well (and even Cerberus Effect's album that features Dan). To me, they all sound much the same, and I'm not saying that as a criticism. Dan just has a very strong and recognizable composition style, and if you like that, chances are you'll like all his records.

    I confess, I don't visit Form of the Good as much as perhaps I should. I'm not really sure why, as I certainly enjoy in. Maybe time for a fresh spin, or maybe several to build better familiarity, which usually leads to greater appreciation. In any case, I still recommend it to fans of the band.

    Bill

  15. #40
    I didn't have the moneys to by that lim. ed. Heliotians on (exclusive) vinyl, so I've had to download it from YT - where the band themeselves have been so gracious as to post the whole record twice through their Emkog label.

    I think this is arguably Dan B.'s finest work. The long-form song X 3 fits very neatly, as does the semi-analog production setting.

    I remember reviewing Form of the Good[/I] for a Norwegian progressive 'zine on release, and thinking that I really shouldn't have been listening so much to that debut B&B release first hand, 'cause the mingle somewhat coloured my impression of both. Obviously, DGrander appears as an attempt at something a bit different (as does certainly All Over Everywhere, which I enjoy as well), but I kept going back to B&B for reference. Bantam to Behemoth remains a frightfully intense listening experience; I still get the sense that if a madman like Weasel Walter was to try his hand at anything remotely resembling "symphonic rock" he'd be in awe of this. Packed, dense, yet approachable (if not always exactly accessible) as well.

    Anyway, they're -all- good and also very interesting in that they are essentially created by someone who doesn't first and foremost wear his (otherwise obvious) influences on his sleeve but actively seeks to expand on them from within. All of Dan B.'s projects should be heard by more folx, and not necessarily just amongst the "radical" branch of progressive rock followers.
    Last edited by Scrotum Scissor; 10-17-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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  16. #41
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Question for Dan if you're still around. I'm seeing some rumors that Ocenarium on Emkog is a CDR, not a factory pressed CD. Can you confirm? I can't tell by looking at it, some claim they can. I figured it would be best to get the real information from the source. Please let us know if you would, thanks!

    Bill

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Question for Dan if you're still around. I'm seeing some rumors that Ocenarium on Emkog is a CDR, not a factory pressed CD. Can you confirm? I can't tell by looking at it, some claim they can. I figured it would be best to get the real information from the source. Please let us know if you would, thanks!

    Bill
    Upload a clean photo/scan of the bottom surface here and I probably could help.

    The top surface looks suspicious to me (to be a factory pressed CDR) as I'm looking at the picture uploaded on Discogs.

    However, the Japanese edition is a normal CD.
    Last edited by spacefreak; 10-21-2020 at 09:06 AM.
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  18. #43
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ I'm looking with my phone, so not foolproof, but the photo of the disc on Discogs looks like a CD-R.

  19. #44
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Not sure if this helps, but here you go.

    Have to say, the more I look at it, the more it looks like a CDR to me. This is totally baffling, as the cost and trouble they went through to print the packaging, having a factory pressed CD would have been pennies additional cost per unit. If this is true, I am a VERY unhappy customer!

    20201021_102313.jpg

    Bill

  20. #45
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ CD-R, Bill.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Not sure if this helps, but here you go.

    Have to say, the more I look at it, the more it looks like a CDR to me. This is totally baffling, as the cost and trouble they went through to print the packaging, having a factory pressed CD would have been pennies additional cost per unit. If this is true, I am a VERY unhappy customer!

    Bill
    Who is this directed at? Dan?

    What is it that makes you angry about it exactly?

  22. #47
    Member Sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Who is this directed at? Dan?

    What is it that makes you angry about it exactly?
    This is a message board, it's directed toward anyone who cares to read it. I think there are some DG fans who would like to know this and who probably feel as I do. If Dan cares to read and respond, I'm wide open to hearing what he has to say about it.

    I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out what makes me angry about this. I bought something marketed to me as as CD, and it was not. CDRs are NOT the same. Every CDR I've gotten that has labels, etc. has crapped out on me. And they can fuck up your car's CD player, as I've experienced. If it was marketed as a CDR, I'd have politely passed. But it wasn't. What's hard to understand about how I feel?

    People had the same reaction when Gotic put out their second album on CDR a few years ago. What is hard to understand about this? People don't want CDRs, and they especially don't want them sold to them under false pretenses!

    Bill

  23. #48
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    I've got about five CD-Rs that were not advertised as such, and I'm none too pleased about any of them. When I look at them on the shelf alongside real CDs, there's a sense of inferiority about them. Some may find that silly (rcarlberg called me a 'jerk' for complaining about getting one from Amazon that was marketed as a real CD - complete with badly Xeroxed cover), but I can't help it - they are inferior.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    This is a message board, it's directed toward anyone who cares to read it. I think there are some DG fans who would like to know this and who probably feel as I do. If Dan cares to read and respond, I'm wide open to hearing what he has to say about it.

    I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out what makes me angry about this. I bought something marketed to me as as CD, and it was not. CDRs are NOT the same. Every CDR I've gotten that has labels, etc. has crapped out on me. And they can fuck up your car's CD player, as I've experienced. If it was marketed as a CDR, I'd have politely passed. But it wasn't. What's hard to understand about how I feel?
    Dude. I was just asking. I didn't say it was hard to understand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    People had the same reaction when Gotic put out their second album on CDR a few years ago. What is hard to understand about this? People don't want CDRs, and they especially don't want them sold to them under false pretenses!

    Bill
    Some people. I'm not the only one who doesn't feel the way you feel about buying music. I bought that Gotic CD-R, for instance. I've bought music from Kimara Sajn (who is a member here), and nearly all of that is on CD-R.

    It's easy to criticize someone else's financial decisions when we aren't privy to their circumstances, isn't it? This isn't the first time I've seen you say that band X, Y, or Z should have paid the extra money to make CDs, diverted their funds to making CDs instead of vinyl, etc. And, I dunno, it rubs me the wrong way -- especially coming from a fellow musician. Maybe their circumstances aren't like yours were when you put out your music.

    In this case, I hope Dan comes back to provide some insight. Personally I'm not that bothered by it being a CD-R, as I paid for the music and the packaging/artwork and not just the disc itself. But I would like to hear from Dan about this so that he at least has a chance to state his case.

  25. #50
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Personally I'm not that bothered by it being a CD-R, as I paid for the music and the packaging/artwork and not just the disc itself.
    IMO and as a dealer for over 40 years.

    There's nothing wrong with releasing a CDR AS LONG AS you tell people that they are buying a CDR. Otherwise, it isn't being honest / transparent with the buyer about what you are selling them.

    Gotic - for example - specifically didn't do that, hence a lot of people were upset with their purchase.

    Amazon sometimes doesn't make it clear that you are buying a CDR, which leads to a lot of people being upset. [Additionally, they specifically do not tell the customer that their CDRs are sourced from mp3s, not wav files!]
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