Yes-Fantasy-Camp!!!! If only I had an extra $7,500.

[NotTheMama]

Gosh, the parallels with Galaxy Quest are uncanny.

[Stickleback]

Why make music when you could be making money?

[Scott Bails]

Why make music when you could be making money?

Why not do both if you have the opportunity?

[NotTheMama]

I'm not sure this is correct, Henry. There are many ways an aging musician can earn a living with a little more grace and sophistication than this. But on the other hand, who can begrudge someone making a living so long as it's honest.

Any particular event can be better or worse organised: there was much criticism of the Cruise to the Edge, but reviews have been very positive. And no such events are compulsory, so if you're not interested, don't go. But, yes, I agree that such events say something about the modern economics of a band.

In the old days, if you liked a band, you could buy singles, albums and concert tickets. If a band wanted more income, they tried to sell the same things to more people, but most of our beloved prog bands aren't attracting a whole lot of new fans, so they become interested in selling more things to the same people.

The marketplace has diversified, as capitalism predicts. Instead of just singles/albums/tickets, we now have a range of products appealing to the richer and/or more devoted fans. It is routine to have a vanilla album release and a deluxe edition (see Steven Wilson's latest), or maybe even a super-deluxe, limited edition, 15-disc set of Larks' Tongues. Instead of just a regular concert ticket, you now also have VIP tickets, or a Masterclass with Eddie Jobson, or a Marillion Weekend, or a Cruise to the Edge, or a 3 of a Perfect Pair Camp, or a Yes Fantasy Camp.

And the marketplace has diversified downwards as well. There are cheaper options. Yes's Atlantic back catalogue was all released at a budget price, and digital downloads mean you can buy individual tracks very cheaply.

So now there's a range of price options from a single MP3 to a 5-day cruise, and everything in between. The consumer makes his or her choice. Capitalism provides that choice for the consumer, and maximises profit for the band. And everybody's happy...

Well, OK, not everybody is happy and the last few years has demonstrated that capitalism ain't all it's cracked up to be. These mega-expensive options seem commoner in the US, a country with a large and growing wealth inequality. If your political system produces such wealth inequality, then maybe this is the consequence at a musical level. I guess if you want to protest, you could go listen to Henry Cow... The multi-disc, limited edition box set version, obviously.

Henry

[Garyhead]

Any particular event can be better or worse organized......

The marketplace has diversified, as capitalism predicts. Instead of just singles/albums/tickets, we now have a range of products appealing to the richer and/or more devoted fans. It is routine to have a vanilla album release and a deluxe edition (see Steven Wilson's latest), or maybe even a super-deluxe, limited edition, 15-disc set of Larks' Tongues. Instead of just a regular concert ticket, you now also have VIP tickets, or a Masterclass with Eddie Jobson, or a Marillion Weekend, or a Cruise to the Edge, or a 3 of a Perfect Pair Camp, or a Yes Fantasy Camp.

And the marketplace has diversified downwards as well. There are cheaper options. Yes's Atlantic back catalogue was all released at a budget price, and digital downloads mean you can buy individual tracks very cheaply.

So now there's a range of price options from a single MP3 to a 5-day cruise, and everything in between. The consumer makes his or her choice. Capitalism provides that choice for the consumer, and maximises profit for the band. And everybody's happy...

Well, OK, not everybody is happy and the last few years has demonstrated that capitalism ain't all it's cracked up to be. These mega-expensive options seem commoner in the US, a country with a large and growing wealth inequality. If your political system produces such wealth inequality, then maybe this is the consequence at a musical level. I guess if you want to protest, you could go listen to Henry Cow... The multi-disc, limited edition box set version, obviously.

Henry

wait! There's a 15 Disc Lark's Tounge???? Auto-buy.

[JKL2000]

I'm waiting for Chuck Negron Camp, so that I, too, can overuse my penis to the point that it ruptures.

[bRETT]

... and (the remnants of) King Crimson has the 3 of a Perfect Pair camp.

Henry

...and Todd Rundgren is doing one in June.

[Scott Bails]

I'm not sure this is correct, Henry. There are many ways an aging musician can earn a living with a little more grace and sophistication than this.

Such as?

[JKL2000]

Teaching, producing, etc I'd guess. My brother is a musician, but while he makes a living from his musical abilities and knowledge, he rarely performs and hasn't recorded anything for release.

[Amy]

Just curious - what's scheduled to go on at this event?

[Scott Bails]

Just curious - what's scheduled to go on at this event?

It's a camp, so I'd expect S'mores, ghost stories, and arts and crafts.

[ronmac]

It's a camp, so I'd expect S'mores, ghost stories, and arts and crafts.

And a VERY proggy "Kumbaya."

[Amy]

It's a camp, so I'd expect S'mores, ghost stories, and arts and crafts.

Well, my parents ran a camp for 36 years, and I played/worked/played there for all of those years. Great times. We had Giant Peanut Hunt, Sportsmanship Week, and a guy named Howie The Martian at our camp. Any chance of that, you think?

[bondegezou]

Just curious - what's scheduled to go on at this event?

We await details, but there tend to be masterclasses and opportunities to work with the band. Steve Howe is also doing a separate camp in Aug and that's very focused on education: see http://crossstylesmusicretreat.com/activitiesschedule/ Musicians wanting to give back and teach, that seems entirely respectable to me. The Fantasy Camp series are similar, but emphasise more the jamming with your heroes angle, which can come across as more crass. Here's the Jeff Beck/Brian Wilson one before Yes's: http://rockcamp.com/jeff_beck.php

Henry

[Progatron]

Well, my parents ran a camp for 36 years, and I played/worked/played there for all of those years. Great times. We had Giant Peanut Hunt, Sportsmanship Week, and a guy named Howie The Martian at our camp. Any chance of that, you think?

Any chance of Howe The Martian? Definitely.

Oh, you said HOWIE. Sorry.

[bondegezou]

I'm not sure this is correct, Henry. There are many ways an aging musician can earn a living with a little more grace and sophistication than this. But on the other hand, who can begrudge someone making a living so long as it's honest.

You seem to misunderstand me. I'm not aware of ever claiming that capitalism has anything to do with grace and sophistication! I understand the economics behind these things. I'm not condoning or condemning them.

It's 3 days in a year: if the band spend the other 362 working on new music and playing great live, then I'm unbothered. Events like this can be done in better or worse ways. Which this will be, I don't know. Did any of you do the Crimson one last year? Or indeed see Anderson or White when they've done Fantasy Camp appearances before? What was it like?

Henry

[Squids]

Haha. I knew there'd be remarks like that but actually... if I was a kid and I had $7,500 I'd be all over that one. Sounds like fun to me.

I got to play a one off gig with Jon Anderson once. We did "Long Distance Runaround". It was so much fun. Patrick Moraz was in the audience too. Rock n' Roll Fantasy! I got off easy. It only cost a couple grand probably all in. But that was lucky. If you can just BUY your luck for $7,500 and sit in with these guys or get a lesson (besides anything involving spandex) if you can afford it then you've got bucket list material (if you're a musician and a massive Yes fan that is).

[Amy]

We await details, but there tend to be masterclasses and opportunities to work with the band. Steve Howe is also doing a separate camp in Aug and that's very focused on education: see http://crossstylesmusicretreat.com/activitiesschedule/ Musicians wanting to give back and teach, that seems entirely respectable to me. The Fantasy Camp series are similar, but emphasise more the jamming with your heroes angle, which can come across as more crass. Here's the Jeff Beck/Brian Wilson one before Yes's: http://rockcamp.com/jeff_beck.php

Henry

Thanks for the info, Henry. I think it's great when a musician wants to teach. I think it's great when a musician will play with someone who is a fan of epic (or even not-so-epic) proportions. But for that fan to pay over six thousand dollars for the privilege - even with some meals, a bed, and a couple of pieces of merch thrown in? I can't for a second wrap my head around such a thing.

[NotTheMama]

Most musicians who play for a living are not very effective teachers. And most people who go to these camps are not very accomplished players. These things tend to be about celebrity: if you've got the money, you can get close to a famous musician. It's an elaborate meet and greet. Again, there's nothing dishonest about this. The guitar camp Henry mentions is different. In those kinds of camps, experienced teachers really keep the teaching pedagogically effective, while the celebrity players bring in some pizazz and excitement. Often it takes a teacher to unpack the things a pro player says and make it useful. Celebrity camps, on the other hand, are about having fun with famous people, whether it's a rock camp or a sports camp. How much do you learn? Maybe some, maybe none. But that's not really the point.

[Scott Bails]

Is this really any different from the "Dream Weeks" that professional sports teams offer fans?

[Amy]

Most musicians who play for a living are not very effective teachers. And most people who go to these camps are not very accomplished players. These things tend to be about celebrity: if you've got the money, you can get close to a famous musician. It's an elaborate meet and greet. Again, there's nothing dishonest about this. The guitar camp Henry mentions is different. In those kinds of camps, experienced teachers really keep the teaching pedagogically effective, while the celebrity players bring in some pizazz and excitement. Often it takes a teacher to unpack the things a pro player says and make it useful. Celebrity camps, on the other hand, are about having fun with famous people, whether it's a rock camp or a sports camp. How much do you learn? Maybe some, maybe none. But that's not really the point.

I guess I'd rather have fun with less famous musicians whom I admire greatly, and still have money left over for two weeks on a tropical island. :-)

"If you've got the money, you can get close to a famous musician". There's something sort of nauseating about that statement. But apparently, it's true. You are just the messenger.

[JKL2000]

You'll leave Yes Camp with the confidence and skills necessary to abandon an ailing vocalist.

[Squids]

You all have some good points. I guess it all depends on how you look at it. No one is forcing anyone to go. But just the fact that it is something that's offered is great. Lucky people who can afford it. They should do some sort of contests for people to win it - like sponsored scholarships to kids that earn it and things like that. It is a little cost prohibitive unfortunately but... then again so are a lot of schools and camps. At least this one could have your favorite band. I really like Rock n Roll Fantasy Camp. Nothing to complain about imo... except the price if you wanted to go and couldn't afford it. That I do understand but that's life. The same can be said about certain concert tickets and other things.

[iguana]

why are we so exercised about this? because, in our own naive little minds, YES still employs the position of an outright antithesis to all this über-corporation. which, in brutally serious hindsight, obviously isn’t further from the truth. i am sure steve howe is overjoyed at the prospect of cruises and fantasy camps. it really is hard not to be cynical about it, because it really does feel like a long-term completion of squire’s pension plan. that said, a visible YES is better than no YES at all. would i go? no way. would i pick up a new album of original material? you bet.

[ronmac]

Mr. Howe, can you teach me how to play "Owner of a Lonely Heart?"

Seriously, though, while this is fun to joke about, they're entitled to do whatever they want with their fame. Well, almost.