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Thread: Wishbone Ash !

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by yogibear View Post
    you do have the live wishbone ash show live in geneva? it features roger filgate and is a really excellent live set.
    No, but I have two others. Where can I find this show?

  2. #27
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Currently I only have 2 WA albums, Argus and the first album. I had at one time a cassette copy of Piligrimage, and a CD of Wishbone Four. I like the first 3 albums. The best one is the first album. Argus I find a bit overrated. Pilgrimage I remember I liked but it's been years since I've heard it. Wishbone 4 was just boring and I got rid of it. To me they're hit or miss. They've produced some fine music but most of their stuff seems too mellow and just doesn't rock enough. Now, there are a lot of WA albums I've never heard so I shouldn't judge them on just the 4 albums I've heard, but the consensus seems to agree that Argus and the first 2 albums are the cream of the crop. One thing they must be given honor for is the big influence they had on NWOBHM bands.

  3. #28
    So, who's the headlining act on the WA/Nektar tour?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidfirerob View Post
    No, but I have two others. Where can I find this show?

    It's here...
    http://www.cduniverse.com/productinf...65&style=music

    ...although I don't see it from the WA store on their site, which is kinda interesting since they show nearly everything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    So, who's the headlining act on the WA/Nektar tour?
    Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash looks like they will be headlining, according to the venue website.

    A little story, in 1976 I saw Nektar as a co-headliner with none other than Wishbone Ash, Nektar went on first but they both played about the same length shows. And even though I had certainly heard of them it was from that show forward that I became a huge Wishbone Ash fan, they were fantastic. That was the Mark 2 version of Wishbone Ash , Laurie Wisefield had replaced Ted Turner in 1974, he was a brilliant guitarist.

    Nektar were no slouches either, that was the original lineup and they were in top form. To this day that show ranks as one of my all time favorites.

  6. #31
    The venue site here in Pittsburgh has Nektar listed first. It might be a co-headlining tour. I'd like to see a full set by Nektar.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    It's here...
    http://www.cduniverse.com/productinf...65&style=music

    ...although I don't see it from the WA store on their site, which is kinda interesting since they show nearly everything else.
    There are no songs from Illuminations on this album! No point to it otherwise. I have two shows with tunes from this album on it. Thanks anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidfirerob View Post
    There are no songs from Illuminations on this album! No point to it otherwise.
    You're absolutely right, although I don't think that anyone said that it included material from Illuminations. It is an exceptionally good live album, even when compared to all of the other live representations of WA, and of which there is no shortage. So in that respect, there is a point, afaic.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidfirerob View Post
    No, but I have two others. Where can I find this show?
    http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Geneva...one+ash+geneva

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Currently I only have 2 WA albums, Argus and the first album. I had at one time a cassette copy of Piligrimage, and a CD of Wishbone Four. I like the first 3 albums. The best one is the first album. Argus I find a bit overrated. Pilgrimage I remember I liked but it's been years since I've heard it. Wishbone 4 was just boring and I got rid of it. To me they're hit or miss. They've produced some fine music but most of their stuff seems too mellow and just doesn't rock enough. Now, there are a lot of WA albums I've never heard so I shouldn't judge them on just the 4 albums I've heard, but the consensus seems to agree that Argus and the first 2 albums are the cream of the crop. One thing they must be given honor for is the big influence they had on NWOBHM bands.
    Why do you think that Argus is overrated?

  11. #36
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Currently I only have 2 WA albums, Argus and the first album. I had at one time a cassette copy of Piligrimage, and a CD of Wishbone Four. I like the first 3 albums. The best one is the first album. Argus I find a bit overrated. Pilgrimage I remember I liked but it's been years since I've heard it. Wishbone 4 was just boring and I got rid of it. To me they're hit or miss. They've produced some fine music but most of their stuff seems too mellow and just doesn't rock enough. Now, there are a lot of WA albums I've never heard so I shouldn't judge them on just the 4 albums I've heard, but the consensus seems to agree that Argus and the first 2 albums are the cream of the crop. One thing they must be given honor for is the big influence they had on NWOBHM bands.
    All you need more is the Live Dates album or the BBC Paris Theatre and you're set really...

    You may want the There's The Rub album as well, because it's a vast improvement on previous album and the next few, but it's hardly essential


    Now on the In Concert front, I've only seen the Powell line-up, which has a terrific stage presence...
    Of course it (Powell's version) seems it's more legitimate than Turner's version, but is it really?? One has hanged on for decades on end, the other returned for obvious "no other alternative to make a living after decades of disinterest"...
    I must say that Turner's band and project is quite disappointing... I'd much rather have had the two WA members join forces and make only one...
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    All you need more is the Live Dates album or the BBC Paris Theatre and you're set really...

    You may want the There's The Rub album as well, because it's a vast improvement on previous album and the next few, but it's hardly essential


    Now on the In Concert front, I've only seen the Powell line-up, which has a terrific stage presence...
    Of course it (Powell's version) seems it's more legitimate than Turner's version, but is it really?? One has hanged on for decades on end, the other returned for obvious "no other alternative to make a living after decades of disinterest"...
    I must say that Turner's band and project is quite disappointing... I'd much rather have had the two WA members join forces and make only one...
    Which version is the one that records? To me, that's the real version of Wishbone Ash. If Powell and Turner can't get along, why wish them together? It's kind of like Jon Anderson and Yes. If the two sides can't see eye to eye, best they stay apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Which version is the one that records? To me, that's the real version of Wishbone Ash. If Powell and Turner can't get along, why wish them together? It's kind of like Jon Anderson and Yes. If the two sides can't see eye to eye, best they stay apart.
    Powell and Turner differ in their approach. Andy is a writing, recording and touring musician. He never stops. He rarely goes out without something new to promote. Every new album is intended to be in the classic WA mold, with the best production available. They play upwards to 150 shows a year, mostly in Europe, even though Andy lives in Connecticut. They are a highly professional outfit and Andy is very music-business savvy. Mart apparently has a lack of enthusiasm for all that, but also feels that his departure from WA was involuntary, and he doesn't seem to see how the two relate to each other.

  14. #39
    Since you put it that way, I'm in!

  15. #40
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    myself i prefer the WA version II . there's the rub is excellent as is the "no smoke without fire" album. the live dates II is some good stuff and the live in tokyo if you can find it are both considered really good , some have called the live tokyo wishbone ash one of the best live albums ever. i've never really heard it as it seems to fetch top prices and i'm not willing to go that far. i do tend to agree that argus seems over rated but it still has some really nice tunes and yeah they do not rock as hard as some would like but thats ok with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Mart apparently has a lack of enthusiasm for all that, but also feels that his departure from WA was involuntary...
    Yeah, was reading this 2011 'For Bass Players Only' interview with Martin Turner, and he had this to say on the subject:

    FBPO: Initially, Wishbone Ash enjoyed quite a long run, lasting longer than most bands, for sure. What ultimately led to your departure?

    MT: We were very much an album band. We never had hit singles or appearances on Top of the Pops, although I would have to say that the music is very melodic, generally, and people who discover and like the band tend to be quite passionate about it.

    The band’s music has tended to age extremely well over the years. Very few other artists can perform songs from forty-odd years ago and have them sound as fresh as WA. I don’t normally review our music; my job is to make it. Someone once described the band as “the most famous unknown band in the world.”

    My alleged “leaving” the band in 1980 was owing to the other guys’ thirst for commercial success. They hit on a brilliant plan to bring in a “front man” singer, which I disagreed with big time. Stupid idea! I could not understand their frustrations at the lack of success. Our band had just been advanced a quarter of a million dollars to make a record and one of the last gigs we played was for $12,000. WA arguably peaked in ’73-’74 and all those years later, in 1980, could you honestly say we had a “lack of success”? They conspired to oust me and my leadership in favor of some dumb concept that never got off the ground because they couldn’t recognize the talent in my replacement, John Wetton. Indeed, the band lost its way and got into financial problems during the ’80s as a result.

    FBPO: In spite of all that, Martin, somehow I sense your relationship with the guys is still somewhat amicable, particularly given your having joined them in concert performances from time to time. Am I right?

    MT: I see and speak with Ted Turner and Steve Upton from time to time. Laurie Wisefield also. I worked alongside Andy Powell for many years, putting together compilations and various releases of the original band’s material in order to support Andy’s touring schedule, but he proved to be a “fair weather friend.” The minute he figured I couldn’t do too much else for him, he set his lawyer on me to attempt a grab of my Wishbone Ash website. He’s been busy ever since, trying to block what I’m doing and sabotage my new version of the band. Like all bully boys, we will not allow him to stamp us into the floor.

    I have had to gather a good team around me who are only too eager to give him as good as we get, with interest. I thought, given the amount of time we spent together in the ’70s, he would have known me better than to imagine that I would be intimidated, give up and fade away. I’m made of sturdier stuff than that! Mr. Powell’s “barrow boy” tactics have led to him grabbing whatever he can – the name, the reputation, the music, the money it generates – and in the process, rewrite the band’s history. Since he seems unwilling to negotiate or compromise on anything whatsoever, he leaves us in a position where we have no alternative but to fight him in the courts. There are principles involved here and this is the complete antithesis of everything that the original band stood for.

    We have made offers and overtures, which could have led to an agreement for everyone to perform together again. Also, with the fantastic support from the fans, everyone could have moved on with their lives. Instead, we have seen the band’s reputation blighted by ugliness, the band’s status reduced to a club act and ongoing legal action, which usually benefits the lawyers mainly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    Yeah, was reading this 2011 'For Bass Players Only' interview with Martin Turner, and he had this to say on the subject:
    Not bitter, is he?

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    Not bitter, is he?
    Seems warranted, IMO.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Seems warranted, IMO.
    Agreed.

    This is from a 2010 interview with Martin. Shame they couldn't have made this reunion work:

    Q: Back to the current time, you are gigging at the moment as Wishbone Ash.

    MT: To be accurate, a Wishbone has got two legs and there are two Wishbone Ashes. There is wishboneash.com and wishboneash.co.uk, both are official. It is the same with the bands, Andy has one Wishbone Ash band, and I have another. There is a dispute over the name in that Andy registered the name a few years back and regards it as belonging to him. We (the remaining three originals) dispute that as you can’t register the name if it was owned by the original four, so there is a legal dispute running at the moment. Like all these things, it rambles on year after year and ends up costing a lot of money. I don’t know where that is going to end up, but basically Ted Turner, Steve Upton and myself are in dispute with Andy Powell over the name.

    Q: That will get resolved sometime in the future hopefully.

    MT: In about a year or two. It’s very messy and we have appealed to Andy to sit round a table and sort it out but we don’t think he is inclined to do that. He has lived in America a long time, a US citizen now as far as I am aware, and he is surrounded by Americans who are a bit gung ho about the whole thing. It’s messy and we have appealed to him to come clean about some of the stuff he’s got up to over the years and he is not inclined to.

    Q: It would save a lot of money if you all sat round a table wouldn’t it?

    MT: Yes. There were plans to have a 40th anniversary reunion in 2009. Myself and Ted Turner agreed to do it. Steve Upton was a little hard to get on board but he agreed and my manager spent nine months trying to talk to Andy but he insisted on confidentiality clauses. We had a great offer on the table for a string of UK dates ending up at Hammersmith Apollo. I know from the gigs I have been doing that there would have been the demand for it. There is a lot of people who would like to see the original four play again.

    Q: The last time the original four piece played together was about 20 years ago for Miles Copeland’s No Speak project, or around that time anyway?

    MT: We did three albums 1989-1991 The last album was called Strange Affair…which it was (laughs).

    Q: It would be brilliant to see the original band back together again.

    MT: Well…Andy’s a bit of a control freak and he did not want to do something he had no control over and he was resentful that the offer (of the 40th anniversary shows) had come through my management. He strung along for nine months until he could cobble something together himself and suddenly announced on his website that we were invited to join one of his gigs at Shepherds Bush Empire I think. He wanted the original band to join him on stage and do the whole of the Argus album which was something I had been doing for the year before that, it hadn’t been done before. What we would have been reduced to though was the original band playing Argus and then his version coming on after. In effect the original Wishbone Ash supporting Andy Powell’s version. It was a case of “no mate that won’t be happening!” I was furious he pulled that stunt and I made some unpleasant comments to a journalist who phoned me up the next morning after I found out (the plans). I wasn’t furious for me (that the 40th anniversary reunion didn’t happen), but for the passionate fans who would have liked to have seen it. Andy couldn’t see the big picture. It was his self interest, especially with the money thing where (in terms of the proposed reunion) it had to be equal
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Seems warranted, IMO.
    Too fucking bad for him, since he's wasting his time and money. The only thing he can do is to go out and prove that he deserves the WA name more than Andy. How's he gonna do that? By playing in a dive in Pittsburgh with Nektar? Or a bowling alley in Chicago? I loves me some Nektar, but they can't even fill up a small church in Manhattan. All this reminds me of the Steppenwolf thing. John Kay had to work his ass off to keep a couple of knuckleheads from running the Steppenwolf name into the ground, and he was the most recognizable member of the band.
    Last edited by Banquo; 04-07-2013 at 02:02 PM.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo View Post
    By playing in a dive in Pittsburgh with Nektar?
    Some dive:




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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Some dive:
    It's a fancy bar, dude. Besides, that's not the point. The point is that MT's WA would have to play places like this every night for ten years just to make a dent into what Andy's done for the REAL Wishbone Ash.
    Last edited by Banquo; 04-07-2013 at 03:28 PM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Seems warranted, IMO.
    Might be, might not be. Those are either the interpretations or facts from one side of the story, filtered through interviewers and or editors. With what is reported, and both sides legalled up, sounds like it would be difficult to get those two together in a band again. My uninformed take on it is that Andy has kept a band on the road and records new material all along, Martin was in and out with his involvement and when he decided to be active again he should have chosen a complementary name such as Martin Turner formerly of Wishbone Ash, or Wishbone Bass or something that allows them to both trade on their history yet still diffentiate for fans of the music. I know the Powell band from live shows and Elegant Stealth, I have no experience with the MT version. I was surprised at how many shows the MT version has done the past few years when I checked that site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ten Thumbs View Post
    Martin was in and out with his involvement and when he decided to be active again he should have chosen a complementary name such as Martin Turner formerly of Wishbone Ash, or Wishbone Bass or something that allows them to both trade on their history yet still diffentiate for fans of the music.
    The way I heard it was that when Martin decided to put a band together he was going to name it Martin Turner's Wishbone, and that AP wouldn't have had a problem with that. Then Martin decided that since it was he (and former drummer Steve Upton) who founded the band he should have the right to use the name. I guess Andy Powell even went so far as to trademark the name, but since he did it in the USA Martin never recognized the validity of the trademarking.

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    It just seems silly to me to emphatically state that Andy's version of Wishbone Ash is the "Real" one, just because he hired some new folks and continued to use the name. To me, his is as real as Martin's, since they both only have one original member.

    The "real" Wishbone Ash to me would be the Turner/Turner/Powell/Upton lineup. And I find it hard to root for Andy, when he shit on the other three when they wanted to do the 40th anniversary shows.

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