Wishbone Ash !

[Banquo]

It just seems silly to me to emphatically state that Andy's version of Wishbone Ash is the "Real" one, just because he hired some new folks and continued to use the name. To me, his is as real as Martin's, since they both only have one original member.

The "real" Wishbone Ash to me would be the Turner/Turner/Powell/Upton lineup. And I find it hard to root for Andy, when he shit on the other three when they wanted to do the 40th anniversary shows.

Andy took on the responsibility of holding up the brand when everyone else dropped out for varying reasons. He didn't do it for the short term, either, so to imply that he just "hired some new folks" is misleading at best and incorrect under any circumstance. If anything, the other members have probably benefitted from his efforts. Andy was one of the first musicians that I'm aware of who took full advantage of the internet to increase his band's visibility and fanbase. MT is never going to be able to undo 20+ years of promotion, touring and recording and everything else that Andy has done under the WA banner. That opportunity wasn't exclusive only to Andy Powell, but it was only Andy who took the reigns, and that's your "big picture" right there, Mr. Turner.

[Dan Roth]

Andy took on the responsibility of holding up the brand when everyone else dropped out for varying reasons. He didn't do it for the short term, either, so to imply that he just "hired some new folks" is misleading at best and incorrect under any circumstance. If anything, the other members have probably benefitted from his efforts. Andy was one of the first musicians that I'm aware of who took full advantage of the internet to increase his band's visibility and fanbase. MT is never going to be able to undo 20+ years of promotion, touring and recording and everything else that Andy has done under the WA banner. That opportunity wasn't exclusive only to Andy Powell, but it was only Andy who took the reigns, and that's your "big picture" right there, Mr. Turner.

Wow....so Andy's band must be playing stadiums this summer, eh?

Boy, the emotions that get brought out when it comes to band-name squabbles (Wishbone Ash, Queensryche, etc) is something else.

[Banquo]

Wow....so Andy's band must be playing stadiums this summer, eh?

Hah! Is that the goal? Because last time I checked, only Bruce Springsteen was playing stadiums. Andy provides a good living for himself and those who work for him and with him, and he's been doing it for a long time with a great deal of stability and integrity. I suppose you can just go out and re-record your most famous album and try to capitalize on that alone, however. Good luck with that.

[Ten Thumbs]

I was just looking for the Nektar 2013 tour schedule (not on their site) and came across a site showing some North America dates for the Nektar/ MTWA tour. Some of those listings showed a photo of the current Powell Wishbone Ash. That's not fair to ticketbuyers, or to either band.

[Dan Roth]

Dude - I get it - you are in Andy's corner. No worries there. The guy hired some new folks and carried on with the band name. Happens all the time. Doesnt make the band become the "real" Wishbone Ash to me though - ymmv. Especially when there is another band out there with the same amount of original band members.

I honestly don't have strong feelings about it one way or another. Both bands are equal in terms of "realness" to me. Kinda like the 2 Barclay James Harvest bands out there.

[Banquo]

Kinda like the 2 Barclay James Harvest bands out there.

Just be glad there's only one Moody Blues.

[ronmac]

Just be glad there's only one Moody Blues.

Well, 3/5 anyway.

[JIF]

Why doesn't Martin Turner's version record? I know this contradicts what I've said before, bu Andy's version of WA is the real version because they still release new music. I don't have any of the new WA CD, but I plan on getting some because I've read great reviews about those on Sea Of Tranquility

[Trane]

The way I heard it was that when Martin decided to put a band together he was going to name it Martin Turner's Wishbone, and that AP wouldn't have had a problem with that. Then Martin decided that since it was he (and former drummer Steve Upton) who founded the band he should have the right to use the name. I guess Andy Powell even went so far as to trademark the name, but since he did it in the USA Martin never recognized the validity of the trademarking.

There is absolutely nothing legal to what I'm going to say, but...

It seems to me that there were 4 original members that did the debut, and that by 1980, two of them weren't in the band anymore (the two Turner's)... And Upton until the early 90's... Soo it's clearly Powell's ship (and surely not Ted Turner who left by 73 or 74)... The fact that the original quartet came back for three albums shouldn't change anything (espacially since they left afterwards)


Just like if you take Yes, there could've been a big issue aboit who owns the name if Jon hadn't left (or been ousted, I don't know or care by Squire) at the Drama album... Would Wyman dispute Jagger & Richards the Rolling Stones name? Etc.... The gus sticking to keeping the band alive are the ones whoi shouldhave access to the name...

The only thing that bothers me, is that the Pink Floyd name shouldn't belong to Gilmour (he's not on the debut album), but eventually Nick Mason I can't undertstand why Gilmour got the name over Waters (OK, Waters wanted to stop it)

[Trane]

Hah! Is that the goal? Because last time I checked, only Bruce Springsteen was playing stadiums. Andy provides a good living for himself and those who work for him and with him, and he's been doing it for a long time with a great deal of stability and integrity. I suppose you can just go out and re-record your most famous album and try to capitalize on that alone, however. Good luck with that.

Yeah, Turner lost major points with me for that!!! If at least the newer version was at least at the original version's shoulder height, but it barely reaches the waist

Dude - I get it - you are in Andy's corner. No worries there. The guy hired some new folks and carried on with the band name. Happens all the time. Doesnt make the band become the "real" Wishbone Ash to me though - ymmv. Especially when there is another band out there with the same amount of original band members.

I honestly don't have strong feelings about it one way or another. Both bands are equal in terms of "realness" to me. Kinda like the 2 Barclay James Harvest bands out there.

Well it seems that the band name should be with the guy who's been on every "major release" (read studio) album (true for Yes and Squire as well), rather than the number of originals in the both versions >> of course if Martin, Ted and Upton were to be in the second version I(d most likely see that one rather than Powell's version (which I've seen >> not as terrific/fantastic on stage as their reputation hints at)

Ultimately I don't have strong feelings either

BTW, I'm not familiar enough with BJH to give an opinion as to which one is more legit than the other... I only saw one version one time (with the bassist) >> it was soporific)

[Vic2012]

Interesting, fascinating, and compelling. The power of the "band" name, or "brand" name. Does this ever happen in other other types of music, or is it only with popular music? I'm not enough of a fan of the Ash to really care one way or the other. I'm not rooting for either one of them (Turner, Powel, whoever) but it is fascinating to watch from the sidelines. The interviews that were posted previously were interesting.

[yogibear]

I've checked into the martin turner wishbone ash and they seem to only do old wishbone ash music and not release new music.that seems strange to me. if you have a band why not create new wishbone ash music ? and use the old stuff to get the fans in so to speak?

[bill g]

I've checked into the martin turner wishbone ash and they seem to only do old wishbone ash music and not release new music.that seems strange to me. if you have a band why not create new wishbone ash music ? and use the old stuff to get the fans in so to speak?

Could be that Andy's a better songwriter, and so continues to write new music. Martin had the voice, but maybe not the writing skills?

[Baphomet]

I saw Martin Turner's WA the other weekend at HRH Prog. Very much felt it was a tribute band although nothing usually wrong with that. But it didn't really get me involved, seemed two formulaic. I have also read his book where he goes into more detail about the fallout between him and Andy Powell. It does seem like Andy tried to ride roughshod over the other 3 founder members at the 40th Anniversary but then again Martin was sacked by those self same members in late 70's so I don't think they are a stable outfit by now. Two years ago saw Andy Powell's WA and it felt more dynamic and "real" but I do wish they could all come together for one final reunion tour doing the first four albums. I think both versions lack the crowd pulling ability that their music deserve.

[everyday]

Last good album is Number The Brave when John Wetton was in the band for that one album. He'd left by the time they toured (with Claire Hammill on backing vox and Trevor Bolder from The Spiders of Mars on bass).

[Banquo]

Last good album is Number The Brave when John Wetton was in the band for that one album.

That album was so NOT good.

[JJ88]

I saw Martin Turner's WA the other weekend at HRH Prog. Very much felt it was a tribute band although nothing usually wrong with that. But it didn't really get me involved, seemed two formulaic.

I felt the same when I saw them in 2008- all the notes were 'right' but I didn't feel there was much personality stamped onto the material. But I couldn't see a reunion of the original line-up playing significantly better venues than they do already. Feels like 'too much water has gone under the bridge' IMHO.

[yogibear]

so one WA becomes a tribute band of the other? lol

[Harbottle]

This has got messy, with a recent court case in the UK:

http://wishboneash.com/blog/post/this_is_wishbone_ash1/

And here's Martin Turner's press release:

http://www.wishboneash.co.uk/news/20...spx?newsID=585

A local newspaper report:

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/...ail/story.html

[Banquo]

This has got messy, with a recent court case in the UK:

You know, in every place I've ever worked, if someone vacated their position for an unreasonable length of time, then they were terminated. That's it. I don't know what the fuck MT expects, other than to to be destitute in his old age for spending every penny he's got left on his lawyers. What a fuckin' dumbass. Great talent. More stupid than a bag of hammers.

[Trane]

You know, in every place I've ever worked, if someone vacated their position for an unreasonable length of time, then they were terminated. That's it. I don't know what the fuck MT expects, other than to to be destitute in his old age for spending every penny he's got left on his lawyers. What a fuckin' dumbass. Great talent. More stupid than a bag of hammers.

Yeah, he was my fave in the original four... but he's been a bit of a twit and a total twat ever since he's made his own band...

However, if Turner says that he never willingly left the band, the result is that he's not in many of the band's discography...

Let's face it, if Powell is a bit of a tyrant re the WA name, he's singlehandedly the one that kept the band's name in the actuality during the 90's and much of the 00's.. and kept the band's concert legend undamaged...

[Dan Roth]

It's a mess, as are most of these oh-so-many band-name disputes. I do hope that Turner wins his appeal and gets to at least continue as "Martin Turner's Wishbone Ash".

Two things stood out to me from those links:

Powell's attorney says "at the time he made his application he had no idea that any of the former members had any interest in the name”. No idea? Did Powell phone them up and say - "Hey guys, I am registering and taking sole ownership of our band's name. Since we all co-founded and made this name famous together, I thought I should ask if you guys have any issue or interest in this." I'm thinking not.

And this:
The case has brought the other four Mark 1 and 2 Wishbone Ash members closer together and has inspired a reinforcing of their friendship and an agreement to work together in 2014. This is terrific news, imho. And it's great to see them pictured together. I know a lot of US audiences side with Powell in this mess - especially since he tours here quite a bit - I would be more excited to see these four record and/or perform together. Try telling anyone that they aren't Wishbone Ash.

[bobert]

The thing that has always bothered me about this mess is the way that Andy Powell trademarked the name without informing the other original members (& Laurie Wisefield) that he was going to do it. I get it that he was the last man standing, so to speak, but he trademarked the name in an underhanded way . Were he upfront about his intentions I am almost certain that the other guys would have challenged him then.

I also don't see why he is so worried about Martin using Wishbone Ash in his bands name, I mean by now anybody who cares about Wishbone Ash knows which band is which. I could see it if they were drawing big crowds to their live gigs but they are basically a pub band, as is the Martin Turner version and neither of them ever play to more than 400 people (usually less than that), with the rare exception of when they get on some type of festival billing.

I am really not clear about the residuals on past material released that they were all involved with, it seems to me that that is what this argument is or should really be all about.

[Banquo]

The thing that has always bothered me about this mess is the way that Andy Powell trademarked the name without informing the other original members (& Laurie Wisefield) that he was going to do it. I get it that he was the last man standing, so to speak, but he trademarked the name in an underhanded way . Were he upfront about his intentions I am almost certain that the other guys would have challenged him then.

And then what do you suppose would've happened? Five Wishbone Ash bands or most likely NONE. MT's assertion that he never willingly left the band doesn't hold water. All of the classic era members, Wisefield included, quit the band without any intention of returning full-time, while AP continued to uphold the brand and it's reputation without interruption. You can talk all you want about whether or not AP should've conferred with the other members, but the fact is that he was not obligated to do so. Is it "underhanded" to do what it takes to maintain a living from what you've done all your life, while all other founding parties - through their actions or inaction - have expressed no interest in contributing at the same level? Nope. It's called "business". If MT wants to play in WA, maybe he can apply for the position if/when it becomes available.

[bobert]

while AP continued to uphold the brand and it's reputation without interruption.

Do you call those two trance album he released as "Wishbone Ash" albums upholding "the brand"? What did those two horrendous albums do for the reputation?They did not even remotely resemble Wishbone Ash. I felt like I was robbed when I purchased them both at the same time and heard them, they were a travesty. He gets way to much credit for being the keeper of the flame.

Bottom line for me, the real "Real Deal" ceased to exist a long time ago. I have seen Wishbone Ash on a number of occasions in the past 15 years and always enjoyed myself, but I also saw them as far back as 1976 and there is no comparison , not even close.

And as I said in my previous post, if he is keeping the other original members from collecting any money due to them from recordings that they played on because he trademarked the name he is wrong .I know he kept the money without sharing on one collection a 4 disc set called Distillation" ,that came out in the recent court case, and I would assume he did the same on the 3 cds released individually as "Tracks" 1,2 & 3 . The other original members (& Laurie) played on all three of these , they are all taken from live shows.How he thinks that this is ok is beyond me.