When did you discover Roine Stolt/ The Flower Kings ?

[paythesnuka]

I then saw Retropolis at a record show, bought it off of Bob Wolf. I was lucky, a fan of the band was at his table, and I asked what they were like. THANK GOD the guy was a fan, or I might not have bought the disc.

I think I might have been that guy. I know I got into TFK around that time and also through Bob Wolf at one of the NYC record shows. I, too, attended the Wetlands show that Andreprogrunner was at (I think we were the first two on line that night and stood in the front row together). I think the show was put on by someone involved with promoting Genesis, because TFK was billed as doing a "Genesis tribute" that night, and the first 50 or so people through the door that night were given a promo CD of tracks that appeared on the first Genesis box set (I still have that CD somewhere). The Genesis tribute that night consisted of just two Genesis songs, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Your Own Special Way, which were sung as Roine was reading the lyrics off a lyric sheet from the respective LPs. Tomas Bodin was not there (I forget the name of the fill-in keyboardist). Michael Stolt was on bass and Jaime Salazar was on drums.

Seen them many, many times since, including the TFK Days in New Jersey.

[Chris Kemp]

I bought V by Spock's Beard, which I think was the first album I bought in the 90's prog renaissance. I have no idea why I bought it. Maybe a suggestion off of Amazon? I had found the Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock (that was the true beginning of my rediscovery of prog) through the Gentle Giant site...maybe it was something on there. Anyway, Amazon recommended The Flower Kings and Glass Hammer after my Spock's Beard purchase. I loved V so much I bought the first Transatlantic album when it came out. "My New World" was such an awesome song...in fact to this day I never get tired of listening to it...and Roine was a major writer on it so I decided to check out the Flower Kings, so I bought "Space Revolver". I thought it was pretty good, especially "I am the Sun parts I and II" but I have to say, my enthusiasm declined with subsequent purchases. I thought "The Rainmaker" was really bad..."Last Minute on Earth"...ug...that song about the ugly little girl...terrible!...but I figured that I picked the wrong album. So everyone was raving about "Stardust We Are" and I bought that. Disappointed again...I couldn't believe the lack of song craft and the fact that there was so much music on it that didn't grab me at all. Lot of non-melodic noodling and, yeah, the lyrics started to bug me. So that was it for me. Too much of not such a good thing.

[spacefreak]

I discovered Roine Stolt through the first two KAIPA albums in the early 80s. My first encounter with the FLOWER KINGS was in 1997 with the "Stardust We Are" album. I was deceived with its neoprog sound and looked no more...

[sonic]

KAIPA were great. My first question when I heard the Flower Kings was, "WTF happened???"

[ThomasKDye]

I bought "Space Revolver". I thought it was pretty good, especially "I am the Sun parts I and II" but I have to say, my enthusiasm declined with subsequent purchases. I thought "The Rainmaker" was really bad..."Last Minute on Earth"...ug...that song about the ugly little girl...terrible!...but I figured that I picked the wrong album. So everyone was raving about "Stardust We Are" and I bought that. Disappointed again...I couldn't believe the lack of song craft and the fact that there was so much music on it that didn't grab me at all. Lot of non-melodic noodling and, yeah, the lyrics started to bug me.

Pretty much my experience, too, though I kept trying. "Back in the World of Adventures" has an awesome title song and little else, and the second CD of "Paradox Hotel" is very sweet. ("End on a High Note" from the first CD is good, too.) Apart from that, the other albums did nothing for me.

[Crystal Plumage]

KAIPA were great. My first question when I heard the Flower Kings was, "WTF happened???"

Have you heard 80s KAIPA post-Stolt? "WTF happened??"

[Yanks2014]

but I have to say, my enthusiasm declined with subsequent purchases. I thought "The Rainmaker" was really bad..."Last Minute on Earth"...ug...that song about the ugly little girl...terrible!...but I figured that I picked the wrong album. So everyone was raving about "Stardust We Are" and I bought that. Disappointed again...I couldn't believe the lack of song craft and the fact that there was so much music on it that didn't grab me at all. Lot of non-melodic noodling and, yeah, the lyrics started to bug me. So that was it for me. Too much of not such a good thing.

You were disappointed by "Stardust We Are", even the epic title track? I'm kind of wondering how you could like any of Space Revolver if you don't like that. The lack of songcraft? The album is brimming with gorgeous melodies and the ideas just flow through both discs. This album immediately grabbed me, and I think it really defines the FK sound. Just wondering, have you heard any of "Unfold the Future"? For me it's their crowning achievement, hardly a weak moment on it, amazing considering it is also a double disc set.

Rainmaker is indeed a weaker effort by them, but I totally enjoy "Last Minute on Earth". The ugly girl song is "Elaine, and thankfully it is short. I do like the jazzy ending though. I think with Rainmaker, they simplified things a bit, and the end result is a FK album that is less lush and symphonic. They didn't play to their strengths.

[Plasmatopia]

Between the mid-70s and mid-90s....LOTS happened.

[sonic]

Have you heard 80s KAIPA post-Stolt? "WTF happened??"

Nope. Sounds like I don't want to know either.

[Progmatic]

For me FK are typically "first impression" type of band, kind of like pop performers. They sound good for a week or so and then they grow boring on you really quick ...after first couple of albums I bought I made decision not to bother with them

[Orcopian]

I got the flower king album (which I think was a Roine solo album) from Malcolm Parker at GFT mail order. Pre Internet I picked up so much music from him and his recommendations - I also spent loads of money!

I've bought everything the flower kings have released since then. I've seen them several times live and I'd have to say my favourite shows were with zoltan on drums. I took my wife to one show and unfortunately they opened with the truth will set you free, after 30 minutes that killed any further interest In Prog music!

[Yanks2014]

Nope. Sounds like I don't want to know either.

What's wrong with modern Kaipa? I really enjoy their albums. I only have "Solo" from the 70's, was not crazy about it. I understand it does not represent their sound back then so well.

[Yanks2014]

For me FK are typically "first impression" type of band, kind of like pop performers. They sound good for a week or so and then they grow boring on you really quick ...after first couple of albums I bought I made decision not to bother with them

I don't understand that really. If I like something initially, it means there is something about it that really works for me. I never grow bored with something that left a strong first impression, it's just never happened to me.

[Camelogue]

Shortly after Columbus was in Hispanola.

[Plasmatopia]

That's when you grew bored, or that's when you discovered Roine?

[Iszil]

I came across "I am the sun" in the radio about 6 years ago and I loved it.

[wilcox660]

Put on their Tour Kaputt album and loved "I am the Sun" and "There is More to This World".

I only just got the DVD of this today! Even though it is region 0 it wouldn't play on my blu-ray player, yet it played just fine on the X-Box. What an awesome show!!

[aith01]

I only just got the DVD of this today! Even though it is region 0 it wouldn't play on my blu-ray player, yet it played just fine on the X-Box. What an awesome show!!

Nice!

I still need to get this one. Their Instant Delivery DVD was killer.

[JKL2000]

I only just got the DVD of this today! Even though it is region 0 it wouldn't play on my blu-ray player, yet it played just fine on the X-Box. What an awesome show!!

When was this DVD released? I thought there was only a CD release, but now can't remember if there was always a DVD and I forgot, or if the DVD is recent. Yeah, the CD is quite good.

BTW, not sure if I already answered upthread, but I first got into TFK back at one of the ProgFests in LA - the girlfriend of the guy from the label was talking up the first album which is all that was out at the time. She was pretty and Swedish, so I was convinced the music would be good Can't remember if I already knew Kaipa at the time - I think I did.

[Skullhead]

It sounded like the 90's prog bands were listening to prog and using prog as their template. The original prog bands were NOT listening to prog. They were listening to classical, jazz, eastern music, bluegrass etc, and blending those elements and influences into their music with the traditional rock instrumentation of the time.
That's why there was much for diversity. Now prog bands are copying prog bands so much of it sounds redundant and often conceptually unoriginal.

Roine obviously spent a lot of time learning Steve Howe licks, while Steve Howe was learning Wes Montgomery, Chet Atkins, Jim Hall licks. Big difference.
Same thing with the great prog drummers. They were listening to Krupa, Buddy Ricn etc, while the modern prog drummers are listening to Bruford, Collins etc, and the newer prog bands are listening to Portnoy etc. So it's actually getting watered down, because the great jazz drummers still to this day had the best technique. SO much has been lost.

Then the same thing for the keyboard palate etc.

[Plasmatopia]

The DVD was also released in 2011.

[Plasmatopia]

It sounded like the 90's prog bands were listening to prog and using prog as their template. The original prog bands were NOT listening to prog. They were listening to classical, jazz, eastern music, bluegrass etc, and blending those elements and influences into their music with the traditional rock instrumentation of the time.
That's why there was much for diversity. Now prog bands are copying prog bands so much of it sounds redundant and often conceptually unoriginal.

Roine obviously spent a lot of time learning Steve Howe licks, while Steve Howe was learning Wes Montgomery, Chet Atkins, Jim Hall licks. Big difference.
Same thing with the great prog drummers. They were listening to Krupa, Buddy Ricn etc, while the modern prog drummers are listening to Bruford, Collins etc, and the newer prog bands are listening to Portnoy etc. So it's actually getting watered down, because the great jazz drummers still to this day had the best technique. SO much has been lost.

Then the same thing for the keyboard palate etc.

Watered down is one view. Continued refinements is another. Not everything the first wave guys did was gold, not everything the 3rd wave guys did is dreck. From my viewpoint, those that heard the first wave proggers when they were 13 years old can't see them objectively and also (particularly if they were hearing those first wave bands way back when they were actually releasing albums in real time) have had many years to become jaded and nostalgic. I won't name names, but there are a few of the Big 5 (or whatever) that are either really spotty and/or leave me cold. At this point, lots of third wave bands seem pretty spotty as well, but...good music is good music no matter when it was made. To dismiss it because it has a different set of influences? That just seems unnecessarily restrictive.

[SRS]

When was this DVD released? I thought there was only a CD release, but now can't remember if there was always a DVD and I forgot, or if the DVD is recent. Yeah, the CD is quite good.

There was always a DVD release at the same time. But it was only a PAL format. I ordered it at the time from Brian who very nicely included NTSC formatted discs he had converted himself. I watched this recently and it is very good. Pat Mastelotto fit very well with them and brought real power and changes to many of the songs.

[aith01]

Roine obviously spent a lot of time learning Steve Howe licks, while Steve Howe was learning Wes Montgomery, Chet Atkins, Jim Hall licks. Big difference.
Same thing with the great prog drummers. They were listening to Krupa, Buddy Ricn etc, while the modern prog drummers are listening to Bruford, Collins etc, and the newer prog bands are listening to Portnoy etc. So it's actually getting watered down [...]

Watered down is one view. [...]

Skullhead's view is what I would call reductionist or overly-simplistic. Roine Stolt first started playing guitar in the 70s, while he was a contemporary of the other big "prog" acts. The assertion that he "spent a lot of time learning Steve Howe licks" is an uneducated assumption, nothing more. Roine has discussed in interviews which guitarists had influenced him in his youth, like Jimi Hendrix for example.

[...] good music is good music no matter when it was made. To dismiss it because it has a different set of influences? That just seems unnecessarily restrictive.

Exactly.

Treating the classic jazz era (and those musicians) as the be-all-end-all of what constitutes good original music is doing a huge disservice to the equally skilled musicians operating in the decades since then.

[jarmsuh]

I discovered Roine with his first album "The Flower Kings" and said to myself: "wow this is the new Yes!"