Henry Cow footage

[OhLen'sNature!]

At 4:53 in the video you can see a young Richard Branson before he became a capitalist tycoon.

[Steve F.]

At 4:53 in the video you can see a young Richard Branson before he became a capitalist tycoon.

No, he was a capitalist tycoon, even then. The entire video, which isn't posted on youtube, has a interview with him before the Cow footage talking about Virgin and business.

[unclemeat]

^ Steve, is there more Cow footage in that entire video ?

[Dave (in MA)]

The head of Cuneiform Records could be a capitalist tycoon if the listening public had better taste.

[Steve F.]

here's the complete footage:

http://www.ina.fr/video/I12200660

p.s. folks interested in this sort of thing should be on the avant-progressive facebook site that Udi runs, which is where I saw the notice about the footage about 2 weeks ago.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/309238555789909/

[Trane]

Not sure what Branson would've become if Tubular Bells had not made a fortune... it was a pretty risqué move, even for the hippie he was...

[Steve F.]

it was a pretty risqué move, even for the hippie he was...

Hughes:

risqué
slightly indecent or liable to shock, esp. by being sexually suggestive : his risqué humor.

risky
full of the possibility of danger, failure, or loss : it was much too risky to try to disarm him.

I assume you meant 'risky'??

[Steve F.]

Not sure what Branson would've become if Tubular Bells had not made a fortune...

He would have become an UNsuccessful capitalist tycoon....

[Scrotum Scissor]

OMG!

[Trane]

Hughes:

I assume you meant 'risky'??

yup;;; Sorrrryyy!!! risky is risqué in french (and so is "risqué" but that comes more from English

He would have become an UNsuccessful capitalist tycoon....

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Good God.

The sound of drums in the 70s was heaven in aural form.

[GuitarGeek]

Not sure what Branson would've become if Tubular Bells had not made a fortune...

He'd be a record store manager, just like he was before Tubular Bells came out.

The bigger question is, what would have happened to the various bands and artists who were subsequently signed to Virgin, if Tubular Bells had tanked. Do you think anyone else would have the presence of mind to sign Tangerine Dream, Gong, Hatfield And The North, or Japan?

[Trane]

He'd be a record store manager, just like he was before Tubular Bells came out.

The bigger question is, what would have happened to the various bands and artists who were subsequently signed to Virgin, if Tubular Bells had tanked. Do you think anyone else would have the presence of mind to sign Tangerine Dream, Gong, Hatfield And The North, or Japan?

yeah, though I really don't appreciate that over-rated TBells album, it at least allowed HC (and Hatfield) to put out further records, if only by giving Vuirgin enough money to allow such releases that sold zilch/peanuts

[calyx]

it at least allowed HC (and Hatfield) to put out further records, if only by giving Virgin enough money to allow such releases that sold zilch/peanuts

This, plus the fact that the bands contractually payed for everything, including overpriced studio bills at Virgin's own Manor Studios. This is why Hatfield earned nothing from their albums until the early 2000's, why Henry Cow never earned anything from their Virgin albums at all, and why Robert Wyatt, upon discovering that if he kept making for records for Virgin, would only increase his debt towards them further, instead released nothing under his own name between 1975-80. (And only resumed recording when he found another label - Rough Trade - and discovered Virgin's contract didn't encompass singles - so his only releases for RT at first were singles)

In other words, Mike Oldfield's success was mostly beneficial to Virgin's chiefs and employees and to a lesser degree, Oldfield himself - who only attained relative wealth because he sold millions of copies of TB, albeit with a ridiculous proportion of the sales going into his own pocket.

[Scrotum Scissor]

The sound of drums in the 70s was heaven in aural form.

Well, especially when handled by someone like Cutler. But then again there was never anyone who sounded quite like him, even back then. The drum sound - and performance of the battery - on Unrest remains one of my favorite percussion workouts on any "rock" album. I don't think I ever heard anyone ever play that economically, yet with such precision, lightness and profound attention to quantitative detail. The drumming after things get going (post-piano intro) in the above mentioned "Half Asleep; Half Awake" is quite simply astounding, IMHO. As is the whole of "Ruins".

[Trane]

This, plus the fact that the bands contractually payed for everything, including overpriced studio bills at Virgin's own Manor Studios. This is why Hatfield earned nothing from their albums until the early 2000's, why Henry Cow never earned anything from their Virgin albums at all, and why Robert Wyatt, upon discovering that if he kept making for records for Virgin, would only increase his debt towards them further, instead released nothing under his own name between 1975-80. (And only resumed recording when he found another label - Rough Trade - and discovered Virgin's contract didn't encompass singles - so his only releases for RT at first were singles)

In other words, Mike Oldfield's success was mostly beneficial to Virgin's chiefs and employees and to a lesser degree, Oldfield himself - who only attained relative wealth because he sold millions of copies of TB, albeit with a ridiculous proportion of the sales going into his own pocket.

while I agree with what you say, though I had no idea that bands had to pay so expensive the in-house studio... But if that was the case, HChad no money to pay... and never sold enough albums to reimburse Virgin, right?? How did Branson recuperate, the spent dough??

Virgin does have at least the merit: that without them, HC albums would've never seen the light of the day... For everybody's enjoyment

[calyx]

while I agree with what you say, though I had no idea that bands had to pay so expensive the in-house studio... But if that was the case, HC had no money to pay... and never sold enough albums to reimburse Virgin, right?? How did Branson recuperate, the spent dough??

This was a process that went on for years, certainly in Hatfield's or Gong's case the "debt" was reimbursed through Virgin keeping the entire proceeds of their album sales until said "debt" was recouped.

More from Chris Cutler himself : "Naturally all the Manor bills to us were high while our royalty per LP sold was extremely low. So we were always in paper debt. Years later, when the group broke up, the Inland Revenue sent us a bill for thousands of pounds for the 'advances' Virgin had told them we had received. These advances being the studio bills. We told the revenue that we'd never received a penny from our records, nor any advances and that in fact, according to Virgin's accounting, we still owed them thousands. The revenue wasn't interested. Legally Virgin's studio bills were advances, so we owed the taxes".

[Trane]

This was a process that went on for years, certainly in Hatfield's or Gong's case the "debt" was reimbursed through Virgin keeping the entire proceeds of their album sales until said "debt" was recouped.

More from Chris Cutler himself : "Naturally all the Manor bills to us were high while our royalty per LP sold was extremely low. So we were always in paper debt. Years later, when the group broke up, the Inland Revenue sent us a bill for thousands of pounds for the 'advances' Virgin had told them we had received. These advances being the studio bills. We told the revenue that we'd never received a penny from our records, nor any advances and that in fact, according to Virgin's accounting, we still owed them thousands. The revenue wasn't interested. Legally Virgin's studio bills were advances, so we owed the taxes".

Henry Cow were often hungry before making albums (as they said in the interview), and even more so after making them...

I know... bloody revenues are absolutely forgiveless in any bloody country

[Udi Koomran]

This was a process that went on for years, certainly in Hatfield's or Gong's case the "debt" was reimbursed through Virgin keeping the entire proceeds of their album sales until said "debt" was recouped.

More from Chris Cutler himself : "Naturally all the Manor bills to us were high while our royalty per LP sold was extremely low. So we were always in paper debt. Years later, when the group broke up, the Inland Revenue sent us a bill for thousands of pounds for the 'advances' Virgin had told them we had received. These advances being the studio bills. We told the revenue that we'd never received a penny from our records, nor any advances and that in fact, according to Virgin's accounting, we still owed them thousands. The revenue wasn't interested. Legally Virgin's studio bills were advances, so we owed the taxes".

That is truly diabolic / evil /