Brand X After Product - Anything Worthwhile?

**Rand Kelly** · 03-30-2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=od9-qPuCsoc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=nhqu2uZeKMU

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lsp7UNsAink

**Rand Kelly** · 03-30-2013

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IG3qiUyHAnU

**Drumolator** · 03-30-2013

For all that Brand X has done since the early stuff go to http://www.buckyballmusic.com. Peace and goodwill.

**Trane** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by Progatron

Masques is excellent.

Well there you go (I didn't there wouldn't be either

)

It's just that the ill-afvised and aptly-named album called Product is already a step too far for me...

Not that Brand X became bad or somthing... just pointless to my eyes after the first three albums

**Banquo** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by Father Tiresias

I just went on Amazon looking for Xcommunication - used copies are selling for upwards of $200. Yikes! That's not a typo!

Damn! I've got a copy signed by the whole band. Bids start NOW!

**rapidfirerob** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by Bake 1

Glad to see X Communication getting mentioned. IMO it was less derivitave and burned hotter than a lot of their earlier and later albums. They smoked the DNA Lounge (S.F.) in 93' and Katz was not a weak link... unfortunately the same can't be said for Goodsall a few years later at Progfest and Nearfest, (guy's amazing on a good night tho').

I was at that DNA show as well. It was the first time seeing them after passing up seeing them in 79, having very little money at the time, and assuming they would return the next year. Large regret, but have the set on CD. I won tickets the same week as the DNA show to San Jose Cabaret concert, so saw them twice in a week, pretty damned good week, I'd say.

**Johnkil** · 03-30-2013

I have a King Crimson tribute disc from the late 90s called Schizoid Dimension. There are 2 versions of Brand X on it. Brand X (West) - Red
Brand X (East) - Neil and Jack and Me

Anyone know anything about these split versions? I've always wondered.

**Finch Platte** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by Udi Koomran

Masques proves otherwise

Thank you. Plenty of good stuff after Phil left.

**ThomasKDye** · 03-30-2013

Man, all the hate mildly inconveniencing dislike for "Product" when "Algon" and "And So To F" both get such regular airplay with me.

**syncopatico** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by ThomasKDye

Man, all the hate for "Product" and "Algon" and "And So To F" both get such regular airplay with me.

Both fine tunes featuring Phil!

And what about Dance Of The Illegal Aliens and Not Good Enough-See Me! ?

One of my favorite rhythm sections of all time is Percy Jones/Mike Clark! Those two long instrumentals on Product represent some of the tightest & most complex fusion (while still maintaining a groove) i've ever heard! (The leftover track DMZ is pretty good too, though not quite to the standard of these two.)

**syncopatico** · 03-30-2013

Originally Posted by calyx

Not quite - "Unorthodox" was recorded in October 1975, whereas this is BBC sessions from February & July 1976, so more like pre-"Moroccan Roll".

Are you 100% sure about this? I know some of Missing Period was recorded after, but i think some of it also dates from before Unorthodox Behaviour. The back of the cd states "before the release of Unorthodox Behaviour". And some tunes like the early, faster version of Born Ugly (cleverly titled on Missing Period, "Dead Pretty") must date from before UB.

http://www.percyjones.net/missing.htm

**Trane** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by ThomasKDye

Man, all the hate for "Product" and "Algon" and "And So To F" both get such regular airplay with me.

I woudn't call it "hate"... it's just that it pales in comparison with what came before...

**Rand Kelly** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by Trane

I woudn't call it "hate"... it's just that it pales in comparison with what came before...

Agreed,this hate word gets bandied about way too much here at PE. If I'm a fan of any band and decide to buy all their catalog,Yes for example,just because I place one of their albums on the bottom of the list,doesn't mean I hate it. All lists will have a top,middle and bottom,there is no getting around that.
Btw, and So To F...is my favorite tune from Product,but I also enjoy Don't Make Waves and Streets Of Soho too.

**Progatron** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by Rand Kelly

Agreed,this hate word gets bandied about way too much here at PE.

Quite true. I've seen threads where a band or album is described in terms such as "They kind of lost me with that one" or "I didn't think it was as strong" and three posts later someone is saying "I don't understand all the hate." - I think these people need to look up the word 'hate' in the dictionary.

As for "...And So To F...", that's a classic! Phil even played it on his early solo tours. I like Product a lot, although it doesn't hit the heights of the first three (or Livestock).

**Proghound** · 03-31-2013

IMO there isn't anything they've done I haven't liked. Innovative, original and talented. They were one of the premier bands that IMO that created the term Fusion. Even the poorly recorded items available are still mentionable to audiophiles, just to hear the flavor of their style....but thats me..

**gpeccary** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by Proghound

IMO there isn't anything they've done I haven't liked. Innovative, original and talented. They were one of the premier bands that IMO that created the term Fusion. Even the poorly recorded items available are still mentionable to audiophiles, just to hear the flavor of their style....but thats me..

I agree, well said. They're one of the rare bands that kept the 'feel' even with personnel changes. Thinking about it, it may have been Percy's bass work that was the constant sonic thread no matter who was drumming? I thought Masques was great, and I loved Burgis' work on that album. Kenwood Dennard filled in really well too. But the original band certainly was killer no doubt. Is There Anything About was a little weak if I recall, but it was still Brand X to me!

**rapidfirerob** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by gpeccary

I agree, well said. They're one of the rare bands that kept the 'feel' even with personnel changes. Thinking about it, it may have been Percy's bass work that was the constant sonic thread no matter who was drumming? I thought Masques was great, and I loved Burgis' work on that album. Kenwood Dennard filled in really well too. But the original band certainly was killer no doubt. Is There Anything About was a little weak if I recall, but it was still Brand X to me!

That's it!

**Trane** · 03-31-2013

Well, what I don't appreciate about BX are two things:

first, thefact that there was almost two different bands taking turn in recording albums: the original quintet (the first threecalbums) and the Bergi/Robinson one (1/M2 of the subsequent albums

while hardly not the only band to do so (show off their virtuosity)... I think RTF does it too much as well), with BX, it's also hindering wth their general songwriting

**calyx** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by Trane

there was almost two different bands taking turn in recording albums: the original quintet (the first threecalbums) and the Bergi/Robinson one (1/2 of the subsequent albums

That's not a really accurate description of what went on. There was always an availability issue with Collins and initially the band was only active when Genesis was off the road. So basically Collins was replaced by a succession of drummers beginning in 1977. Then a parallel issue was that Robin Lumley became an in-demand producer and took a back seat during 1978. The result was "Masques", which he produced but didn't play on. What then happened in 1979 was largely a reformation of the original band - the band that toured the US that year had all 4 original members plus Robinson.

btw, Bürgi was only briefly in the band; by the end of the "Masques" tour he was already out, replaced by Mike Clark who then alternated with Collins on album and played on the 1980 UK tour as Genesis were concurrently touring "Duke".

**rapidfirerob** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by calyx

That's not a really accurate description of what went on. There was always an availability issue with Collins and initially the band was only active when Genesis was off the road. So basically Collins was replaced by a succession of drummers beginning in 1977. Then a parallel issue was that Robin Lumley became an in-demand producer and took a back seat during 1978. The result was "Masques", which he produced but didn't play on. What then happened in 1979 was largely a reformation of the original band - the band that toured the US that year had all 4 original members plus Robinson.

btw, Bürgi was only briefly in the band; by the end of the "Masques" tour he was already out, replaced by Mike Clark who then alternated with Collins on album and played on the 1980 UK tour as Genesis were concurrently touring "Duke".

Right. Life happens. If only certain periods of Brand X or any band are appreciated, only listen to those albums.

**Trane** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by calyx

That's not a really accurate description of what went on. There was always an availability issue with Collins and initially the band was only active when Genesis was off the road. So basically Collins was replaced by a succession of drummers beginning in 1977. Then a parallel issue was that Robin Lumley became an in-demand producer and took a back seat during 1978. The result was "Masques", which he produced but didn't play on. What then happened in 1979 was largely a reformation of the original band - the band that toured the US that year had all 4 original members plus Robinson.

btw, Bürgi was only briefly in the band; by the end of the "Masques" tour he was already out, replaced by Mike Clark who then alternated with Collins on album and played on the 1980 UK tour as Genesis were concurrently touring "Duke".

Thanks for pointing this out... I knew about Collins and Lumley's indisponibilities, but didn't know the full story. Now I do!!

**bRETT** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by syncopatico

Both fine tunes featuring Phil!

And what about Dance Of The Illegal Aliens and Not Good Enough-See Me! ?

I still think "Don't Make Waves" is a really good rock & roll song. And the only place you get to hear Phil Collins say "asshole".

**syncopatico** · 03-31-2013

Originally Posted by calyx

btw, Bürgi was only briefly in the band; by the end of the "Masques" tour he was already out, replaced by Mike Clark who then alternated with Collins on album and played on the 1980 UK tour as Genesis were concurrently touring "Duke".

Actually, Mike Clark started playing drums on the U.S. dates of the 1978 tour (Percy Jones, Peter Robinson, Morris Pert, Mike Miller [occasionally John Goodsall], Mike Clark); while Chuck Burgi played drums on the 1978 European tour. By 1979 Phil was available again, and that was the tour that featured the double keyboards of Lumley and Robinson.

It's interesting the story of how Product features two semi-different line-ups (bass and drums) with Goodsall adding his guitar to both. The record company and/or their manager wanted some more *commercial* material to move more 'Product' so Phil and Goodsall came up with a couple of vocal songs that also featured John Giblin on bass.

Percy being Percy (can he write *commercial* material?

was allowed to compose and arrange the more complex, intricate stuff that he was known for, hence the two long instrumentals, Dance Of The Illegal Aliens and Not Good Enough-See Me! which featured Mike Clark's amazing drumming.