Gilmour(s) versus Waters Goes Medieval on Twitter

[MudShark22]

I suppose it's about time for me to review TFC again. It's been awhile. I guess I have always thought of it as a Waters solo album. I won't revisit Pros and Cons. The only copy in the house is vinyl. I keep it for an obvious and prurient reason.

Gotta be the font! - spike lee

No Mars, it's not the font.... - MJ

[Scott Bails]

Gotta be the font! - spike lee

No Mars, it's not the font.... - MJ

[vmartell]

Can’t Waters just go retire somewhere and not meddle with international politics… Make some political music if it should please him.

Re Waters Russia position - It is the weirdness of his logic that baffles me - please correct me if I am wrong - but my understanding is that he considers himself a pacifist, therefore he wants the war to be over and he sees the appeasement of Russia as the fastest way to achieve that... Well.. that was tried in the past and it did not work - might as well let Roger call for Neville Chamberlain to negotiate!

v

[3LockBox]

Re Waters Russia position - It is the weirdness of his logic that baffles me - please correct me if I am wrong - but my understanding is that he considers himself a pacifist, therefore he wants the war to be over and he sees the appeasement of Russia as the fastest way to achieve that... Well.. that was tried in the past and it did not work - might as well let Roger call for Neville Chamberlain to negotiate!

v

I really don't believe Rogers actually thinks Putin has a leg to stand on, more likely it's Roger's long running boner for the US. I'm sure the surviving members of Pink Floyd are bewildered by this vindictive side of Waters.

[vostoklake]

In his address to the recent "Rage against the War Machine" rallies in the US, Waters accused President Zelenskyy's government of destroying the Nordstream gas pipeline. This is a wilder accusation than the Kremlin actually promote, they say it was the US. He's an old man who's lost his grip on reality.

[Mascodagama]

I really don't believe Rogers actually thinks Putin has a leg to stand on, more likely it's Roger's long running boner for the US. I'm sure the surviving members of Pink Floyd are bewildered by this vindictive side of Waters.

There’s a long but not very honourable line of Western leftists who view the capitalist/imperialist West, and the US in particular, as the great enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, ergo Russia is good, even if it’s now functionally a fascist state. All such considerations can be ignored, just so long as they are Sticking It To The Man. Jeremy Corbyn is one such, Waters another IMO. There has been no excuse for this since 1956 at the latest.

I mean I’m of the (moderate) left myself, but fuck these people with a ten-foot cactus.

[Trane]

Definitely toying with the PE policy about politics

In his address to the recent "Rage against the War Machine" rallies in the US, Waters accused President Zelenskyy's government of destroying the Nordstream gas pipeline. This is a wilder accusation than the Kremlin actually promote, they say it was the US. He's an old man who's lost his grip on reality.

Let's face it, it's not Russia that bombed its own structure.

It didn't take much to bomb it, given that the Baltic sea's average depth is 35 m (deepest is 80m)
For all we know, even pearl fisher/divers from lake Chad (Central Afrika) could've been able to do the job.
Most likely, it's Ukrainians with the help of Polish fleet that did the job, but no-one in the west is able to see that - or at least they won't discuss it in the open.
War is also blind propaganda on both sides, that the European Institutions are certainly dishing their own crap to feed the public opinion.
Nordstream's bombing is "fair game" in a war, anyways - nobody is crying for Russia - even if in the long run, once everything will be over, everyone is going to have to rebuild a new pipeline (to what environmental costs?).

Waters' general sharpness in political analysis is just as valid as Biden's (or toxic NATO's) and certainly more accurate than Gilmour's very understandable support with that atrocious single track that used the Floyd name - which most likely annoyed Roger beyond belief.

There’s a long but not very honourable line of Western leftists who view the capitalist West, and the US in particular, as the great enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, ergo Russia is good, even if it’s now functionally a fascist state. All such considerations can be ignored, just so long as they are Sticking It To The Man. Jeremy Corbyn is one such, Waters another IMO. There has been no excuse for this since 1956 at the latest.

I mean I’m of the left myself, but fuck these people with a ten-foot cactus.

Well, isn't unbridled capitalism running wild mainly responsible for the global warming?

[Sunlight Caller]

I saw Roger took a Tweet-swipe at the British writer and left field music broadcaster Stuart Maconie, for his writing on the newly re-recorded DSOTM. Maconie had repeated the line about Roger disliking the DG guitar solos. Anyway Roger utterly refuted this and stated how fantastic all of DG’s soloing down the years had been. Perhaps a move towards appeasement?

[Splicer]

Roger Waters has always been a self-absorbed nutter. For a while it was tolerable because he produced good art. Then he stopped producing good art and the fact that he's crazy came to the forefront. He's best ignored by all people who aren't the six who showed up for the so-called rally.

[Mister Triscuits]

I saw Roger took a Tweet-swipe at the British writer and left field music broadcaster Stuart Maconie, for his writing on the newly re-recorded DSOTM. Maconie had repeated the line about Roger disliking the DG guitar solos. Anyway Roger utterly refuted this and stated how fantastic all of DG’s soloing down the years had been. Perhaps a move towards appeasement?

Waters needs to take it up with the writer for El País who was the source of the "horrible guitar solos" quote, as clearly attributed in Maconie's article.

Scroll to the end: https://english.elpais.com/culture/2...loyd-feud.html

[Mascodagama]

Well, isn't unbridled capitalism running wild mainly responsible for the global warming?

I think you and me both already broke the no politics rule, so I'll keep it brief. There's quite a huge excluded middle between "anyone who wants to destroy the Western system is OK with me" and "unbridled capitalism running wild is how things should be". Personally I'd like to see better-regulated capitalism, with redistributive taxation, well funded health and eduction services free at the point of use, protection of workers' rights and the right to protest, and for sure stronger environmental laws and regulations. Scandinavia seems to be where the best efforts at this approach have been made.

[Mstove]

I saw Roger took a Tweet-swipe at the British writer and left field music broadcaster Stuart Maconie, for his writing on the newly re-recorded DSOTM. Maconie had repeated the line about Roger disliking the DG guitar solos. Anyway Roger utterly refuted this and stated how fantastic all of DG’s soloing down the years had been. Perhaps a move towards appeasement?

I looked at his comments as more of a way to make himself look better. I took his original intent about the solos to mean the whole concept of a rock guitar solo was what he disliked, not Gilmour's specifically. But, when you are out there trashing everyone else in your own band as basically having nothing and being along for the ride with the one and only genius Roger Waters, people might just take your quote to mean the actual solos were rubbish, not just the idea of solos. I think he knew this particular one made him look like an old fool, so he decided to punch down on some guy who he knows can't battle him on a level field.

Now, backing Putin, that's another story completely. lol

[3LockBox]

I think you and me both already broke the no politics rule, so I'll keep it brief. There's quite a huge excluded middle between "anyone who wants to destroy the Western system is OK with me" and "unbridled capitalism running wild is how things should be". Personally I'd like to see better-regulated capitalism, with redistributive taxation, well funded health and eduction services free at the point of use, protection of workers' rights and the right to protest, and for sure stronger environmental laws and regulations. Scandinavia seems to be where the best efforts at this approach have been made.

I think the problem in any system, socialist or capitalist, is unbridled greed and corruption. It's why capitalism flails and socialism fails. It's hard to regulate human nature.

[FirthOf5th]

Wow, PE has really changed in the past two decades. Y’all neocons now.

[Mascodagama]

I think the problem in any system, socialist or capitalist, is unbridled greed and corruption. It's why capitalism flails and socialism fails. It's hard to regulate human nature.

For sure. But I think some approaches to this intractable problem do better than others.

[3LockBox]

Wow, PE has really changed in the past two decades. Y’all neocons now.

🙄 sure

[Mstove]

Wow, PE has really changed in the past two decades. Y’all neocons now.

lol - yeah, that's the takeaway I got from this conversation.

[infandous]

Definitely toying with the PE policy about politics




Let's face it, it's not Russia that bombed its own structure.

It didn't take much to bomb it, given that the Baltic sea's average depth is 35 m (deepest is 80m)
For all we know, even pearl fisher/divers from lake Chad (Central Afrika) could've been able to do the job.
Most likely, it's Ukrainians with the help of Polish fleet that did the job, but no-one in the west is able to see that - or at least they won't discuss it in the open.
War is also blind propaganda on both sides, that the European Institutions are certainly dishing their own crap to feed the public opinion.
Nordstream's bombing is "fair game" in a war, anyways - nobody is crying for Russia - even if in the long run, once everything will be over, everyone is going to have to rebuild a new pipeline (to what environmental costs?).

Waters' general sharpness in political analysis is just as valid as Biden's (or toxic NATO's) and certainly more accurate than Gilmour's very understandable support with that atrocious single track that used the Floyd name - which most likely annoyed Roger beyond belief.



Well, isn't unbridled capitalism running wild mainly responsible for the global warming?

I agree with all this, and I mostly agree with Waters. He has called on both sides to implement a cease fire, something the USA arms merchants are undoubtedly strongly opposed to (which means so is the Biden administration). That said, he does seem averse to blaming Putin in any way, which I find troubling to say the least since regardless of anything the west has done to provoke the invasion (and they have done plenty), he still made the decision and his troops are the ones destroying and killing. For someone so anti-war, to NOT take Putin to task for invading seems flat out wrong, so I can't support Waters in that.

As the feud, I find it very sad. Waters ego when it comes to talking about Floyd seems beyond the pale to me. He does acknowledge the others contributions and he does praise Gilmour's abilities, but he also seems to want to take all the credit, which is absurd frankly.

Also, I love the Final Cut. I think it's better as a whole album than The Wall, though I realize I'm probably alone in that assessment, but that's my opinion. I also think that PF song with the Ukraine singer is lame (musically speaking), but I respect what Gilmour was trying to do with it.

[Splicer]

Wow, PE has really changed in the past two decades. Y’all neocons now.

Nah. I'm just not a tankie. The thumbnail photo is a gag.

[Quantum Cat]

Wow, PE has really changed in the past two decades. Y’all neocons now.

You're a bit off-base. I think you missed the debate as to whether Roger is an Anarcho-Communist or Marxist Communist or has simply deteriorated into outright Maoism. Whereas Gilmour has historically been decidedly Trotskyite in his approach, noting that after 1917, orthodox Trotskyists argued that the loss of democracy in the Soviet Union was caused by the failure of the revolution to spread internationally and the consequent wars, isolation, and imperialist intervention, not the Bolshevik style of organization. Gilmour has often commented on how these thoughts inform his solos, most notably the repeating motif that characterizes his melodic approach on "Pigs (Three Different Ones)". The inherent and violent conflict between Maoists and Trotskyists are undoubtedly the central issue between Waters and Gilmour - and the strain of continuing to cover-up of Wright's untimely demise via an icepick lodged in his skull only adds to that tension.

[3LockBox]

Nah. I'm just not a tankie.

Funny

[M Sary]

Roger Waters has always been a self-absorbed nutter. For a while it was tolerable because he produced good art. Then he stopped producing good art and the fact that he's crazy came to the forefront. He's best ignored by all people who aren't the six who showed up for the so-called rally.

Yup, looks like about six people to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680wuKpr7Gg

[infandous]

Yup, looks like about six people to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680wuKpr7Gg

I wasn't aware of it sadly, but I certainly support it. War is big money and little else (besides destroying peoples lives who didn't ask for it and didn't want it).