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Thread: First Flower King Remasters Out Today

  1. #451
    I'm going to try to do a comparison of the two versions when I get the chance. I'll post it here. But people have to know that I'm not a musician nor know any music terminology past the very basic. So you'll get a lot of, "The twiddly part here is less twiddly and the whee-whee-whee thing doesn't show up after the bah-room."
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  2. #452
    随缘 SRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Fortunately I have the vinyl version of UtF released years ago. Containing the unaltered songs, with improved sound. The only drawback being Truth had to be split between two sides.
    Sounds like you have the 2017 vinyl release of UtF - that is definitely not unaltered versions though! Truth is a radical remix and so is Devil's Playground. In many ways I think this one is even worse than the 2022 one because Devil's has about 5 minutes cut from it and also Soul Vortex is completely left off the vinyl if I remember correctly.

    There is only one unaltered TFK vinyl in existence and that is Stardust We Are 2014 vinyl release. (talking pre-BoE releases, Roine hasn't remixed BoE forward..........yet)

    If you have the Kingdom of Colours CD box set you are almost but not quite in the clear because that also has the 2017 UtF remix in it. So hang onto your original releases!
    Last edited by SRS; 12-01-2023 at 09:31 PM.

  3. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by SRS View Post
    Sounds like you have the 2017 vinyl release of UtF - that is definitely not unaltered versions though! Truth is a radical remix and so is Devil's Playground. In many ways I think this one is even worse than the 2022 one because Devil's has about 5 minutes cut from it and also Soul Vortex is completely left off the vinyl if I remember correctly.

    There is only one unaltered TFK vinyl in existence and that is Stardust We Are 2014 vinyl release.

    If you have the Kingdom of Colours CD box set you are almost but not quite in the clear because that also has the 2017 UtF remix in it. So hang onto your original releases!
    Ya the 2017 UTF omits “Soul Vortex” and the 2023 UTF omits “Too Late For Tomatoes.” And they each have a jumbled tracklisting in a different order from each other.

  4. #454
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    ^^ The altered tracklist would be a function of trying to squeeze a double CD on 3 vinyl records. Just like 8-Track tapes were mixed up to try evening out the 4 channels.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  5. #455
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    I'm going to try to do a comparison of the two versions when I get the chance. I'll post it here. But people have to know that I'm not a musician nor know any music terminology past the very basic. So you'll get a lot of, "The twiddly part here is less twiddly and the whee-whee-whee thing doesn't show up after the bah-room."
    Sounds just like my last band practice.

    I don't know which mix to pick as my favorite. I haven't heard the 2017 remix in quite a while. I recall it feeling less compressed but that revealed some things I felt were better left covered up. I'm talking about individual instrument sounds that were slightly noisy or something. I just listened to 2022 version of The Truth and I still think it's amazing. It would take a big effort to go through a 30-minute song and find all the details that are different. Right off at the beginning the 2022 version is louder. The original version starts quieter and kind of fades up slowly. So this (and other sections) might indicate that the 2022 version has less dynamic range. One thing I really like is that each individual instrument seems clearer in the 2022 version. As a bass player I love that I can hear everything done on the bass clearly.

    I feel it's a toss-up between the original and the latest version. I don't think one is better, they're just different. I can completely understand not wanting something you've grown accustomed to to change. I'm grateful to be able to listen to both interpretations or however you want to refer to them. At times they emphasize different things.
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  6. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    I can completely understand not wanting something you've grown accustomed to to change. I'm grateful to be able to listen to both interpretations or however you want to refer to them. At times they emphasize different things.
    Part of the problem with the remix is that it's lost some of the orchestral lushness that the keyboards provided. I also swear that there are different guitar and keyboard parts - as in different takes used rather than the 2002 version.
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  7. #457
    随缘 SRS's Avatar
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    When this came out earlier this year I took some notes after listening to "The Truth Will Set You Free" and posted them on the TFK forum - I'll copy and paste that below as it has some time stamps for things I noticed:

    --------------------------------------
    It seems that he has taken the 2017 remix as the starting point for this one and then further modified it. It uses the same alternate Hasse vocal take for "Lonely Road". We can call it the 'stand tall' variation. I don't agree with this change. I think the original take is sung perfectly and the first time that line is sung "Hold on - the truth will set you free." that should be sung as is, without additions - when the line comes up again in the second verse it is ok to modify it and add in 'you will see' or 'stand tall' or whatever. But adding this in on the first time we hear the verse feels like we are not at the beginning, like we missed a verse. Not sure if this complaint will make sense to anyone else. lol. Also there is no need to add a thunderclap sound effect after "Rain keep on falling like the first morning." - this seems out of place - the rest of the song has generally avoided non-musical effects so it seems odd to have this one pop in suddenly there.

    Not feeling that loud "Hey" at the beginning of "Primal Instincts" at 5:30 - each remix this gets louder and louder. Also in "Uphill" during the quiet Roine sung section at 16:40 we have another alternate vocal take. This one I can't really argue the original is better, but it is what I like and what I'm used to. In the newer 2017 and 2022 versions I miss hearing the fragile sounding 'Oh' at the beginning 'Oh, the truth will find it's way'. And I like the phased vocal effect later too.

    The majestic and triumphant keyboard theme in 'Uphill' at 19:25 - the bass sounds great but what happened to the keyboard? It sounds muffled and neutered. My mind still imagines the sounds but my ears no longer hear them. Very different from original and even from 2017.

    The famous keyboard solo at 25:00 sounds different too - but at least we can hear it. The final section "The Stars The Sun The Moon" - another alternate vocal here but this one I do like. This closing section sounds very good. You can hear Hasse clearer on the echoing verses in this section:
    "Rest your mind by the dawn of time. See the scene flourish in it's prime.
    Roll away, away in the big, big blue. I'll explode, explain inside of you"

    I do wish we could get a straight up remaster of the original Truth (and Devil's) - instead of remixes - but alas no. On the positive side this remix is clearer to hear separation of instruments and it has made me understand the song better which makes me appreciate it more - but for me it feels like I will prefer original mix.

    --------------------------------

    That's what I wrote earlier this year and my feelings haven't really changed. I think for a lot of us it will be hard to get past the 'imposter syndrome' part of the remixes. We know these songs well and love the originals and feel they just don't need to be changed!

    What we really need is someone who has never heard the song before to listen to the 2022 remix and then only listen to that version for 20 years. Then in 2042 have them finally listen to the original and see which they prefer! Anybody know someone that can do this and report back?

  8. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    ^^ The altered tracklist would be a function of trying to squeeze a double CD on 3 vinyl records. Just like 8-Track tapes were mixed up to try evening out the 4 channels.
    Ya, but both LP versions have the tracklist in a different order.

  9. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by SRS View Post
    When this came out earlier this year I took some notes after listening to "The Truth Will Set You Free" and posted them on the TFK forum - I'll copy and paste that below as it has some time stamps for things I noticed
    Rather than go point by point, I'm just going to say that you did a lot of the work I would be trying to do it myself poorly. As to the keyboard solo at 25:00 - it sounds to me like it's missing some effect that would make it sound broader or fuller. It almost sounds to me like a recording of Tomas sitting in the studio playing the solo over a recording but he's not really in the mix - he's in front of the mix (if that makes sense). Also, the second time he plays the solo melody, where an additional keyboard sound is added (or maybe two), it doesn't sound as full either. I think the effects have been too stripped down during this part. Also the keyboard solo that in the original has a pipe organ sound that sort of brings Rick Wakeman to mind is less Wakemany.

    I'm also not keen on the vocal differences (less harmony?) on the part that begins, "Now straight from the heart...". Again, it sounds less...I don't know..."friendly" to me.

    Drums have been lowered in the mix as well especially in the beginning of the song where you get that real punch of drums, cymbals, guitar and bass.
    Last edited by Splicer; 12-02-2023 at 09:46 AM.
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  10. #460
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    Ya, but both LP versions have the tracklist in a different order.
    There are three or four different 8-Track tape layouts of Yes Fragile. 3 which fade at least one title for the channel change. 1 with uninterrupted titles, but a total of a minute silence.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  11. #461
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRS View Post

    That's what I wrote earlier this year and my feelings haven't really changed. I think for a lot of us it will be hard to get past the 'imposter syndrome' part of the remixes. We know these songs well and love the originals and feel they just don't need to be changed!

    What we really need is someone who has never heard the song before to listen to the 2022 remix and then only listen to that version for 20 years. Then in 2042 have them finally listen to the original and see which they prefer! Anybody know someone that can do this and report back?


    Thanks for reposting that. It's obvious we all are sort of biased in our own unique ways. Not a bad thing.
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  12. #462
    Member The Czar's Avatar
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    My favorite thing about these kinds of arguments is that the original versions still exist and some people (like me) don't get rid of them so we can still listen to them. If you're concerned with newer fans not being able to hear the original versions, well there are always used cds.

  13. #463
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    InsideOut Music is now offering some of its titles on Bandcamp, including some of The Flower Kings remasters. Once again, some of the remasters are available in hi res while some are not. But which albums go into which category is strangely not the same as what is on Qobuz.

    The good news for fans of hi res audio and TFK: Bandcamp has Flower Power in hi res, which is a first.

    Also, Islands was released in hi res on Qobuz UK but only in CD quality in Qobuz US. Bandcamp has it in hi res, so everyone can now hear it this way.

    https://insideoutmusic.bandcamp.com/

  14. #464
    Thanks for that!

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