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Thread: First Flower King Remasters Out Today

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    First Flower King Remasters Out Today

    Good news for fans of The Flower Kings: The first two of the remasters are out today. Back in the World of Adventures and Retropolis are available in CD and LP.

    https://www.roinestolt.com


    The bad news for hi res fans: The digital releases for download and streaming are only available in CD quality (16/44.1) even though the digital masters are 24/96. Not only is this a disservice to fans, but it doesn't even make financial sense given that they can charge more money for hi res downloads.

    I sent a message to Inside Out Music asking them if they would please consider making the 24/96 masters available. Anyone who feels the same way can contact them here:
    https://www.insideoutmusic.com/contact/

    PS
    Distribution is handled by Century Media, so perhaps those are the folks who need to be contacted. I did both:
    centurymedia@musictoday.com
    Last edited by Soc Prof; 05-27-2022 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Streaming? The point of these is to get them for the first time on glorious gatefold multi-vinyl!

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    The first one sounds pretty good on Spotify!
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    Streaming? The point of these is to get them for the first time on glorious gatefold multi-vinyl!
    Correct ! No interest in streaming these.albums. the physical products are essential!

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    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Are they doing Space Revolver and Unfold?

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    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soc Prof View Post
    Good news for fans of The Flower Kings: The first two of the remasters are out today. Back in the World of Adventures and Retropolis are available in CD and LP.

    https://www.roinestolt.com


    The bad news for hi res fans: The digital releases for download and streaming are only available in CD quality (16/44.1) even though the digital masters are 24/96. Not only is this a disservice to fans, but it doesn't even make financial sense given that they can charge more money for hi res downloads.

    I sent a message to Inside Out Music asking them if they would please consider making the 24/96 masters available. Anyone who feels the same way can contact them here:
    https://www.insideoutmusic.com/contact/

    PS
    Distribution is handled by Century Media, so perhaps those are the folks who need to be contacted. I did both:
    centurymedia@musictoday.com
    More than likely the albums were recorded 16/44.1 or 16/48. There would be no audible benefit to upconvert to 24/96.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    More than likely the albums were recorded 16/44.1 or 16/48. There would be no audible benefit to upconvert to 24/96.
    That may indeed be the case. On the other hand, I think I recall that some of the Flower Kings albums were recorded to analog tape, which fits with Roine's retro vibe.

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    More than likely the albums were recorded 16/44.1 or 16/48. There would be no audible benefit to upconvert to 24/96.
    A clear waste of vinyl, then??


    Never been a TFK fan, though if I had to name one album, I'd say Adventures would be it.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  9. #9
    Just listened to Back in the World on Apple Music. Sounds really good.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Are they doing Space Revolver and Unfold?
    I seem to remember they reissued Unfold on vinyl a few years back with improved sound and a partial remix. So in a way it was the first of the series and they might not reissue it again.

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    随缘 SRS's Avatar
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    Well I've listened to BitWoA and 5 of the 10 songs on here are remixes! And I'm very sorry to say but my first impressions are not good. I think these remixes will prove to be as controversial and disliked as the 2017 UtF remixes (Devil's Playground being the worst of them)

    It's still early though and I don't want to disparage them too much - maybe it is just my problem. Can someone else check me on these? Do an A/B comparison between original and remix for these two things:

    "Train to Nowhere" - at about 0:44 "You still think a miracle will happen when you face the gun" and the organ that comes in right after this line. Compare that moment between the original and remix. Which gives you goosebumps?

    "Theme for a Hero" - 2:00 to 4:00 compare those two. Notice what is missing in the remix at about 3:15, which version sounds more joyous to you, which do you prefer?

    These are just two examples.

  12. #12
    "Train to Nowhere" a little too much spittle sound in the "F" and "Th" sounds early in the song. I can fix dry voiceovers so I could've probably done those too.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

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    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    More than likely the albums were recorded 16/44.1 or 16/48. There would be no audible benefit to upconvert to 24/96.
    Mixing and mastering 16 bit multitracks to Hi-Res and/or vinyl can still be beneficial. The Hi-Res/vinyl would provide a larger canvas for all those 16 bit elements to come together. Think of it as the same collage on 2 different sizes of cardboard. On the smaller cardboard, the cutouts are more crowded and have more tendency to overlap. On the larger cardboard, they're more spread out.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

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    Rhythm of the Sea is a remix as well. I dunno. I sorta like it. I think different takes of some of the synth parts were used and also the lead vocals are quieter sometimes. BUT, what surprised me is Hasse Fröberg's backing vocals. They were so low in the mix in the original version, I had no idea they were there in the first place.

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    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    Good to know but I'm happy with the ones I have.
    You can't take a photograph of Uzis on a street corner.

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    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I streamed World of Adventures. I still dislike the snare tone (can't really "fix" that), but the clarity is great and the lower stuff (bass, kick drum, pedals) seems heftier. Ill see what the verdict is on Stardust and Flour Pour on vinyl...certainly pricey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SRS View Post
    Well I've listened to BitWoA and 5 of the 10 songs on here are remixes! And I'm very sorry to say but my first impressions are not good. I think these remixes will prove to be as controversial and disliked as the 2017 UtF remixes (Devil's Playground being the worst of them)
    Would you mind elaborating on what was so controversial about those remixes as I haven't heard them?

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Would you mind elaborating on what was so controversial about those remixes as I haven't heard them?
    If you mean the UtF remixes, I'd like to know as well. I didn't know that remix was controversial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Would you mind elaborating on what was so controversial about those remixes as I haven't heard them?
    Large crowds protesting the remixes in many American cities. Failure to bend and redo them by Roine. It was ugly. Should be able to find coverage in the archives of the major American news networks.
















  20. #20
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Mixing and mastering 16 bit multitracks to Hi-Res and/or vinyl can still be beneficial. The Hi-Res/vinyl would provide a larger canvas for all those 16 bit elements to come together. Think of it as the same collage on 2 different sizes of cardboard. On the smaller cardboard, the cutouts are more crowded and have more tendency to overlap. On the larger cardboard, they're more spread out.
    You are speaking gibberish. There is no information beyond bit 16 on the multi-track. Upconverting to 24 bit is not going to create any. Upsampling either.

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    I received both from my favorite CD merchant, the above Laser CD. (Can’t say enough good things about this place)! I knew going in there were a lot of remixes on these and am actually looking forward to them. I have the originals too, which I will keep. Nothing wrong with having two versions of these great releases, IMO. Can’t wait to hear!
    So much music....so little time....

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    The first two Flower Kings albums are still my favorite records by the band. I think Roine did a nice job with these. I've been playing them this weekend and my heart and mind are happy. Is he remastering just the early catalog? I can't imagine the most recent albums need a remaster. I would hope not anyway.

  23. #23
    随缘 SRS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Large crowds protesting the remixes in many American cities. Failure to bend and redo them by Roine. It was ugly. Should be able to find coverage in the archives of the major American news networks.
    The scenes outside Inside Out headquarters in Germany were particularly violent. Thomas Waber had to be rushed out via a back door and went into hiding for several months. Still Roine refused to redo them!!

    It's even somewhat misleading to call these 'remixes' since they seem to be partial re-recordings. Above it was mentioned that they couldn't hear Hasse on the original mix of "Rhythm of the Sea" - that's because he wasn't on it, this appears to be added in. Same of course with "The Road Back Home" now it has Hasse and Roine trading verses. A Remix should still only include the original ingredients of the recipe but in adjusted degrees. This is adding ingredients and removing others.

    But regarding "Devil's Playground" 2017 remix. It is 6 minutes shorter than the original and the section that is removed is one of the very best passages in all of Flower Kings catalog. I'm talking about the part at about 13:30 where it reprises part of the "Uphill" section of "The Truth Will Set You Free" this time in instrumental form. And it is done in such an achingly beautiful manner. It's absolutely gorgeous and painfully emotional. For the remix this section was deemed expendable.

    But as bad as that change is, I didn't even know about it until later because something happens much earlier in the song that when I first heard it I ejected the CD from my car player. I'm assuming everyone knows the song - the first 3 plus minutes are a slow dramatic build up of ever increasing tension, with some slight release only to build the tension more. This happens very gradually and deliberately. In the original right before it goes into the main riff and the chaos breaks out there is sort of a machine sound that changes into this low growl and then the riff kicks in. It's magnificently and perfectly done. In the remix this transition moment is changed into a cartoon villain voice booming out "THIS IS HOW YOU RAISE THE CAIN!!!" It is absolutely ridiculous. I just can't believe that someone wouldn't tell him this is a terrible choice.

    And I'll just mention one other thing about the UtF remix. He selected the wrong files for "Vox Humana" and "Grand Old World". He choose the "Road Back Home" 2007 remix versions instead of remastering the original versions. They are quite different versions. For "Vox Humana" it is not so bad but that version of "Grand Old World" removes the intro with "The Truth" marimba theme reprised played in a different key. That part was important to unite the double album sides and the album flow is not as good without it.

    I know I know I'm veering into obsessive fandom here but it does bother me. I really have no problem with remastered versions and the remastered songs are good. But I beg Roine please don't remix anymore! None of the songs are improved by it and I think he is just TOO close to these songs and can't see the forest for the trees. In some cases he can't see what made these songs great to begin with. Probably because he is obsessed on mastering and production nuances instead of the actual emotion and feel of the songs. In the Tangent thread there is an interview with Andy Tillison who says he never listens to his albums after he is done with them. He has expanded on this before and it is for that exact reason, because he would always find faults and become consumed by the could have should have done it this way thoughts. I'm afraid Roine has fallen into this trap. But there is no need to! The originals sound just fine as they are! Trust the fan reactions as to why we think they are classics.

  24. #24
    Does Laser only have the CD reissues and not the LPs?

  25. #25
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    ^^^re:SRS' post on remixes^^^

    I can see why this stuff bothers you and at the same time, I think it's oftentimes interesting to hear a different version. Plus we still have the originals.
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