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Thread: Triumph: Rock & Roll Machine documentary

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    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Triumph: Rock & Roll Machine documentary

    Watched this tonight, the latest from the team that brought us Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage and Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. It was most entertaining, without a dull moment to be found. Plenty of laughs as well as a few touching moments. Brought back memories of blasting Thunder Seven in my Sony cassette Walkman!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    'The best stuff is really when Mick Pointer was a baby, banging on pots and pans. That was their most "out there" stuff.' - JKL2000

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    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    I watched it a while ago and really enjoyed it. I bumped into Rik Emmet leaving a Yes show in Toronto about 20 or 25 years ago. I said hi and he said his favourite guitarist was Steve Howe.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Wasn't there a thread about this documentary in the making?


    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Watched this tonight, the latest from the team that brought us Rush: Beyond The Lighted Stage and Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. It was most entertaining, without a dull moment to be found. Plenty of laughs as well as a few touching moments. Brought back memories of blasting Thunder Seven in my Sony cassette Walkman!
    where can we find this docu/rocku?

    I'm in until Allied Forces.

    I hoped off the bus afterwards (actually, in retrospect, I could say I did with Just a Game)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Wasn't there a thread about this documentary in the making?




    where can we find this docu/rocku?

    I'm in until Allied Forces.

    I hoped off the bus afterwards (actually, in retrospect, I could say I did with Just a Game)
    To my knowledge it is still not available here in the U.S. on any services. I love everything Banger Films does, and I am sure this is a good one, have not been able to find it anywhere.

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    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I bumped into Rik Emmet leaving a Yes show in Toronto about 20 or 25 years ago. I said hi and he said his favourite guitarist was Steve Howe.
    A friend of mine and I also spotted him at A&A Records on Yonge Street, flipping through albums. I said 'Is that Rik Emmett?!' so my friend said 'Hi Rik!'... he turned and said 'Hi John!'... my friend said 'Oh, I'm not John' and Rik said 'Oh well, it was worth a shot!'

    He mentions in the documentary about the band he was in before Triumph that played Yes medleys, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant, and how they were 'in way over their heads'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Wasn't there a thread about this documentary in the making?

    where can we find this docu/rocku?
    I missed the thread if there was one. I wasn't even sure if there would be any Triumph fans here, to be honest.

    As for where to find it, I don't know. I recorded it on my DVR from my cable provider at 5:00 on a weekday morning(!)
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    'The best stuff is really when Mick Pointer was a baby, banging on pots and pans. That was their most "out there" stuff.' - JKL2000

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post

    As for where to find it, I don't know. I recorded it on my DVR from my cable provider at 5:00 on a weekday morning(!)
    Everyone I know who has seen it lives in Canada. So far it has not been available across the border to my knowledge.

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Everyone I know who has seen it lives in Canada. So far it has not been available across the border to my knowledge.
    You can watch it on nugs.net but you have to "buy a ticket" and it's $20. I'm going to wait for the eventual DVD release.

    https://www.nugs.net/live-download-o...8-WEBCAST.html

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    A friend of mine and I also spotted him at A&A Records on Yonge Street, flipping through albums. I said 'Is that Rik Emmett?!' so my friend said 'Hi Rik!'... he turned and said 'Hi John!'... my friend said 'Oh, I'm not John' and Rik said 'Oh well, it was worth a shot!'

    He mentions in the documentary about the band he was in before Triumph that played Yes medleys, King Crimson, and Gentle Giant, and how they were 'in way over their heads'!



    I missed the thread if there was one. I wasn't even sure if there would be any Triumph fans here, to be honest.

    As for where to find it, I don't know. I recorded it on my DVR from my cable provider at 5:00 on a weekday morning(!)
    There are at least a few of us here! I was a Triumph fan before I was a Rush fan.

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    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    With a quick search, it may be streaming on the Roku channel, I'll check on that later


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    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    With a quick search, it may be streaming on the Roku channel
    That was the first place I checked and I haven't seen it. Let me know if it pops up!

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    There are at least a few of us here! I was a Triumph fan before I was a Rush fan.
    Let's just say that I had a preference for Triumph over Rush until Just A Game - which was still good, but I expected them to go proggier after The City.

    Their respective next two (PW & MP and PoP & AF) tilted the balance the other way, though neither of those four were nearly as good as thei output from 76 until 79.

    On top of it Triumph was from Mississauga (Moore living some 700 yards away from me)
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Let's just say that I had a preference for Triumph over Rush until Just A Game - which was still good, but I expected them to go proggier after The City.
    I think Rik was the only guy with prog roots. With Gil also writing and singing, their hard rock format was locked down, which I was totally fine with. They did what they did very well. I prefer their early to mid-'80s nontrilogy of Allied Forces, Never Surrender and (my favorite) Thunder Seven, which sounds fantastic. Eddie Kramer produced and mixed T7.

  13. #13
    They were great to see back then. While I did get into Rush before them, I practically learned to play air guitar watching Rik from about 20 feet away during the Progressions of Power tour. Surprisingly, I actually went to that show to see Rik Derringer open, but his bus broke down. I know I told this story in another thread, but Triumph's stage crew opened instead.
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    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    There's a good story in the doc about Triumph becoming the headliners of a show after Sammy Hagar bailed. But the best story for my money is about them booked to play Massey Hall and then being told they couldn't because of all their pyrotechnics. So they played Maple Leaf Gardens instead! They were so ambitious. I've already re-watched this doc (twice in three days), this time with my wife who knew nothing of Triumph except to recognize Lay It On The Line, and she loved it! It's an interesting story told by increasingly excellent filmmakers IMO. I can't wait to see what they do next.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    'The best stuff is really when Mick Pointer was a baby, banging on pots and pans. That was their most "out there" stuff.' - JKL2000

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    They were great to see back then. While I did get into Rush before them, I practically learned to play air guitar watching Rik from about 20 feet away during the Progressions of Power tour. Surprisingly, I actually went to that show to see Rik Derringer open, but his bus broke down. I know I told this story in another thread, but Triumph's stage crew opened instead.
    I got to see them twice back in the day. I don't remember which tours, but their show were almost like senory overload they had no much lighting, pyro and effects. The only negative thing I remember were that the shows were fairly short. They both clocked in at around 80 minutes if I remember right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    I got to see them twice back in the day. I don't remember which tours, but their show were almost like sensory overload they had no much lighting, pyro and effects. The only negative thing I remember were that the shows were fairly short. They both clocked in at around 80 minutes if I remember right.
    That's what I've read, that they were in the eighty-minute zone. It's not like they didn't have enough material for a two-hour show.

    When I saw Rush on the Presto tour, the complete show was two hours, with encores. And we thought it was too short! (Then they went back to longer shows.)

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    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    I think Rik was the only guy with prog roots. With Gil also writing and singing, their hard rock format was locked down, which I was totally fine with. They did what they did very well. I prefer their early to mid-'80s nontrilogy of Allied Forces, Never Surrender and (my favorite) Thunder Seven, which sounds fantastic. Eddie Kramer produced and mixed T7.
    for me, if Forces was still +/- the early Triumph, they sort of lost their sonic cachet with NS and T7 with that big production ala FM/AOR/MTV

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    There's a good story in the doc about Triumph becoming the headliners of a show after Sammy Hagar bailed. But the best story for my money is about them booked to play Massey Hall and then being told they couldn't because of all their pyrotechnics. So they played Maple Leaf Gardens instead! They were so ambitious. I've already re-watched this doc (twice in three days), this time with my wife who knew nothing of Triumph except to recognize Lay It On The Line, and she loved it! It's an interesting story told by increasingly excellent filmmakers IMO. I can't wait to see what they do next.
    I think that MLG is the last Triumph show I saw from them (Teenage Head was opening that show, right?). I'd seen them in specific concert halls 8 or 9 times prior to that, the rest was in high school or bars (though a little young to get in the latter, other than backdoors).

    EDIT: wrong MLG show... From Levine's interview this was 77 (I guess I missed that one, I guess), I saw the PoP tour at the MLG
    Last edited by Trane; 05-18-2022 at 05:39 AM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    I think Rik was the only guy with prog roots. With Gil also writing and singing, their hard rock format was locked down, which I was totally fine with. They did what they did very well. I prefer their early to mid-'80s nontrilogy of Allied Forces, Never Surrender and (my favorite) Thunder Seven, which sounds fantastic. Eddie Kramer produced and mixed T7.
    Not only that, but I saw an interview on Youtube where Rik made a comment about how part of the reason they went from RCA to MCA was because RCA wasn't willing to think of Triumph as anything that a "cult band", a group where each album might go platinum, etc. Apparently, Gil Moore and Mike Levine (who were basically also the band's managers) really wanted to be a "huge" band. So the idea that Triumph were somehow going to go "prog" or "more prog" or however the frell you want to put it, probably was never gonna happen. If anything they were going to go more MOR (which is exactly what happened), though a lot of that had to do with the fact that they owed a motherfrelling dren load of money to MCA, because MCA had bought out the RCA contract, and because Thunder Seven do enough business to pay off that particular debt, whichever A&R henchman at MCA it was who was assigned ot the band suggested they start using "outside writers". Don't get me started on "outside writers".

  19. #19
    To be honest, I never really got around to hearing the early Triumph records, so my knowledge of their stuff is really the run from Just A Game through Stages (the live album that followed Thunder Seven). To me, that's a pretty bad ass set of records (well, Thunder Seven I never actually owned, either, so I can't really endorse that one, other than that the two singles, Spellbound and Follow Your Heart, were pretty cool tunes).

    As for the shows being "too short", I think most hard rock bands were like that. I think most bands played shows that would fit on a 90 minute cassette, ya know, if you just happened to have ya know, like a radio broadcast that you taped off the radio or something. Yeah, I know the prog rock bands played longer shows, but when it came to the mainstream bands, a lot of those groups were on bills with two or three (or sometimes even more) bands. Even if you were the headliner, you might not have the freedom to play 2 hours or more. And especially once you get into playing bigger venues (actual concert halls, or even the sports venues), you're dealing with union regulations you don't have to worry about in clubs or whatever. So it's not like you could play til dawn, even if you wanted to.

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Not only that, but I saw an interview on Youtube where Rik made a comment about how part of the reason they went from RCA to MCA was because RCA wasn't willing to think of Triumph as anything that a "cult band", a group where each album might go platinum, etc. Apparently, Gil Moore and Mike Levine (who were basically also the band's managers) really wanted to be a "huge" band. So the idea that Triumph were somehow going to go "prog" or "more prog" or however the frell you want to put it, probably was never gonna happen. If anything they were going to go more MOR (which is exactly what happened), though a lot of that had to do with the fact that they owed a motherfrelling dren load of money to MCA, because MCA had bought out the RCA contract, and because Thunder Seven do enough business to pay off that particular debt, whichever A&R henchman at MCA it was who was assigned ot the band suggested they start using "outside writers". Don't get me started on "outside writers".
    Hence the dismay over A Sport of Kings, which "sports" several songs forced on them by the label, including "Just One Night," which Eric Martin recorded for his first album.

    Mike Levine talks about that song in this interview, and how a third party recognized it, having already been done twice! Needless to say, the guys weren't happy. (And it really is Triumph's nadir.)

    Last edited by dropforge; 05-16-2022 at 04:43 PM.

  21. #21
    They were on early MTV and then fell off my radar. I guess now that every album is a few clicks away I should check out something of theirs again.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Wasn't there a thread about this documentary in the making?
    https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...hlight=triumph

  23. #23
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    ^^^ Ahh, I did indeed miss that thread at the time somehow. I'll definitely watch that interview!
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    'The best stuff is really when Mick Pointer was a baby, banging on pots and pans. That was their most "out there" stuff.' - JKL2000

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    For whatever reason, never heard a single note by this group. I'm listening ro their first album on YT. I'll probably go through the whole discography on YT. First impression, they're Rush if they never would have gone prog and stayed hard.

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    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    For whatever reason, never heard a single note by this group. I'm listening ro their first album on YT. I'll probably go through the whole discography on YT. First impression, they're Rush if they never would have gone prog and stayed hard.
    Are you sure you've never heard Magic Power? Or Lay It On The Line, Fight The Good Fight, Follow Your Heart, Just One Night, Somebody's Out There...? I have a feeling you may not realize that you've heard them before.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    'The best stuff is really when Mick Pointer was a baby, banging on pots and pans. That was their most "out there" stuff.' - JKL2000

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