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Thread: Avant-prog binge 2022

  1. #51
    Member Mascodagama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Do they even understand that 'avant-garde' denotes something other than 'avant-garde-rock'?

    And I even own and enjoy most of those on the list, except for Lennon's Lions - which I owned but basically amounts to pure rubbish and shouldn't figure on any list if it doesn't concern cornflakes in the toilet bowl. It's not creative, not radical or daring, not "colourful", not even the slightest bit transgressive.

    Where the hell is Nico's Marble Index, given the obvious pretext of styrlistic criteria at play?

    Shit. Starsailor is excellent but neither the best nor the most culturally-consequent Buckley-record. Is this post-modern hipster parade attempting to survive both pandemic and woke onslaught?
    Even if "avant-garde rock albums" is assumed to be the scope it's something of a joke list.

    If you were picking a Buckley item - and would you really as one of the ten greatest avant-rock albums ever? - you'd surely pick Lorca?

    Two Yoko Ono efforts, how about none? Not hard to think of other Japanese artists who were far more credibly of the avant-garde so far as music is concerned.

    IDK in what sense Eno's Another Green World is supposed to be avant-garde. None the wiser about that for reading the piece, unless "avant-garde" actually means "slightly out of the mainstream for a rock record".

    Can's Tago Mago - one of the three Krautrock albums owned by everyone who owns exactly three Krautrock albums.

    Nothing from France, Belgium, Italy. Nothing from the Rock In Opposition movement.

    Björk is in this list, but Captain fucking Beefheart isn't. Nothing against Björk or Medulla at all, but really?

    I dunno if hipsterism is at work here so much as "Hey! I own at least ten albums that are a bit odd, I bet there's a magazine piece in this!".
    Last edited by Mascodagama; 01-21-2022 at 09:17 AM.
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  2. #52
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    Can's Tago Mago - one of the three Krautrock albums owned by everyone who owns exactly three Krautrock albums.
    That line actually made me laugh out loud
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    I've been enjoying this record immensely the last few weeks:
    Gabriel Zucker - Leftover beats from the edge of time



    https://gabrielzucker.bandcamp.com/a...-edges-of-time

    I dunno it it is really 'avant-prog'. It is certainly hard to classify. Somewhere in between big band Jazz and modern classical with some rock and even pop thrown in. Extremely rewarding to delve in.
    my favourite album - by a mile - from 2021 and an outright masterpiece in all the senses of the word.

  4. #54
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    And I even own and enjoy most of those on the list, except for Lennon's Lions - which I owned but basically amounts to pure rubbish and shouldn't figure on any list if it doesn't concern cornflakes in the toilet bowl. It's not creative, not radical or daring, not "colourful", not even the slightest bit transgressive.
    I think Life with the Lions is pretty decent. At least it's better than Two Virgins. I regard Lennon's "Revolution 9" as one of the finest pieces of musique concrète ever made, so it's so disappointing that TV ended up sounding like exactly what it was, half an hour's worth of somebody dicking around with a tape recorder.
    Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - CD available now, vinyl coming soon.
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  5. #55
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    my favourite album - by a mile - from 2021 and an outright masterpiece in all the senses of the word.

    Yeah, I think it was your recommendation in the 'best of 2021' thread that lead me there.

  6. #56
    Member Mascodagama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    That article was amazing. I 100% believe every word. Thank you for posting it.
    Most of what I know about Koby Israelite comes from reading that piece, but based on it I kinda love him. I have a feeling that there aren't many people in the small world of funny music who would have the balls to go into print about being screamed at by John Zorn and having their album ruined by Bill Laswell, but Koby has got those balls!
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  7. #57
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    unless "avant-garde" actually means "slightly out of the mainstream for a rock record".
    This.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
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  8. #58
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    I've been enjoying this record immensely the last few weeks:
    Gabriel Zucker - Leftover beats from the edge of time



    https://gabrielzucker.bandcamp.com/a...-edges-of-time

    I dunno it it is really 'avant-prog'. It is certainly hard to classify. Somewhere in between big band Jazz and modern classical with some rock and even pop thrown in. Extremely rewarding to delve in.
    It's been on the edge of my To Buy list every since checking it out based on your reco.
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mascodagama View Post
    Even if "avant-garde rock albums" is assumed to be the scope it's something of a joke list.

    If you were picking a Buckley item - and would you really as one of the ten greatest avant-rock albums ever? - you'd surely pick Lorca?

    Nothing from the Rock In Opposition movement.
    Have to say that I always admired Tim Buckley's far-out experimental efforts on both Lorca and Starsailor, but in terms of his standing as idiosyncratic singer-songwriter artist they both fall short of Happy Sad and Blue Afternoon. And he was already plenty radical on those!

    As for the list lacking anything from the Rock In Opposition-movement, now that's simply staggeringly shocking. I recall the nodhead with the giant wannabe-afro behind the counter at the Virgin Megastore on Piccadilly when I asked him for some 'Japanoise' in the summer of 1999 and he kept complaining that "[...] those nippons always tend to fall back on so-called pre-arranged and vulgar pomp things", before he sold me two fine but eventually quite dull CDs by Fushitsusha (w. Keiji Haino). He kept referring to The Wire, you know, in which composed or arranged music at the time was heathenly vinegar and musicians preferably shouldn't deal with presupposed conceptions of the moment at all. Since Paul de Man wouldn't have cared for it.

    The ignorance towards the most advanced rock music ever made (as in Rock-In-Opposition), whether from "prog" fora or the hipster Wire-community's incessant morale of moment impulse and "improv", remains not as much a mystery as a revealing asset of self-reliant confirmation-aesthetics. Both improvisational "avant-rock" and self-professed "prog-rock" tend to halt on the challenge of technical transgression onto their domain.

    This being said, I'm a fan of Another Green World. It's a cozy-cocktail arty poproxzucker.

    I like it better than Bon Jovi's Slippery When Wet, although if the latter had been equipped with a 'tron-like emulator-effect and a bit longer songs and some fantasy-cover artwork and a snippet input by MacGyver on mullet percussion it would definitely qualify as pure prog, at least if Geoff Downes endorsed the results.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #60
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    NP: Univers Zero - Ceux Du Dehors
    Primary procreation is accomplished…

  11. #61
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Have to say that I always admired Tim Buckley's far-out experimental efforts on both Lorca and Starsailor, but in terms of his standing as idiosyncratic singer-songwriter artist they both fall short of Happy Sad and Blue Afternoon. And he was already plenty radical on those!.
    Lorca’s my personal favorite, and also a few of the live things from that period.
    Steve F.

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    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  12. #62
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    NP: Univers Zero - Ceux Du Dehors
    Well worth a NP!! I still NP it reasonably often.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  13. #63
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Same here
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  14. #64
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Same here
    Beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick! Or a bit hand!
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  15. #65
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    I play the vinyl "reverb special" version a lot as well

  16. #66
    Casanova TCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Same here
    +2 !
    Love Univers Zero and luckily, I could see them at Baja Prog 2007!



    1 Partch's X-Ray - Presage (00:01)
    2 Xenantaya (16:21)
    3 Before The Heat (29:47)
    4 Warrior (34:32)
    5 Another Variation On Mellotronic Theme (49:00)
    6 Dense (53:55)
    7 Dense-Finale (La mort de Sophocle) (01:05:30)
    8 Kermesse atomique (01:09:30)
    9 Band intros (01:15:46)
    10 The Funeral Plain (01:17:18)
    11 Feu Final - Toujours Plus A L'est (01:40:03)

    Daniel Denis - Drums
    Michael Berckmans - Bassoon, Oboe
    Eric Plantain - Bass
    Andy Kirk - Piano, Keyboards
    Kurt Bude - clarinet, Sax
    Martin Lauwers - Violin
    Pura Vida!.

    There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
    Duke Ellington.

  17. #67
    Casanova TCC's Avatar
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    "Leftover Beats From The Edges Of Time by Gabriel Zucker"



    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    Yeah, I think it was your recommendation in the 'best of 2021' thread that lead me there.
    The same here and I'm all over it !.
    Tankx Zappa!
    Last edited by TCC; 01-21-2022 at 08:20 PM.
    Pura Vida!.

    There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
    Duke Ellington.

  18. #68
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    NP: Begnagrad - s/t (Hey Steve, you get a name check in the Thank You's on this one! Of course, that's not a rare occurrence.)
    Primary procreation is accomplished…

  19. #69
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^

    I was probably the first non European business to push that band. Hence the thank you, for which I am happy and grateful.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  20. #70
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    NP: Begnagrad - s/t (Hey Steve, you get a name check in the Thank You's on this one! Of course, that's not a rare occurrence.)
    I just found out this is now at 'name your price' at bandcamp. Have to get this. For my wife because she is Slovene. She will love it. She has to.


    https://begnagrad.bandcamp.com/album...emastered-2003

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    NP: Begnagrad - s/t (Hey Steve, you get a name check in the Thank You's on this one! Of course, that's not a rare occurrence.)
    Classic album
    Love it
    Bought in 84 at the recommended records shop

  22. #72
    ^ The Begnagrad record (the first; they had others, right? I haven't heard them) is a complete treasure. So well visioned, conceived and performed, such an amazingly entertaining and exhilarated listen and one of those where you can always discover new things on each round. I also think it's one of the best introductory examples of "chamber-rock" to the uninitiated, together with UZero's Ceux, Flairck's Engel and possibly Domestic Wildlife by Die Anarchistische Abendunterhaltung (DAAU).

    It's genuine Paradise Beach/Hotel top-10 stough.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  23. #73
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Classic album
    Love it
    Bought in 84 at the recommended records shop
    Me too. Not a frequent flyer but always a great spin.

  24. #74
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ The Begnagrad record (the first; they had others, right? I haven't heard them)
    There was a previously recorded record (which IS on the BC site as well) that was not released until after the first one. It's good. It isn't AS good. (and someone remind me how to embed BC on PE - thank you)
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  25. #75
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Get the whole embed code from bandcamp then just select the code after album=

    [ BC ] 3121683503 [ /BC ]
    Ian

    Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on progrock.com
    https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-a...re-happy-hour/

    Gordon Haskell - "You've got to keep the groove in your head and play a load of bollocks instead"
    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

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