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Thread: TOTO

  1. #76
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Always full of positive things to say, aren't you? You must be a hit at parties? Like I've said before, you can't judge a band based on their radio hits. Toto's "radio hits" don't paint the whole picture, especially with a band like Toto. Radio programmers cater to the lowest common denominator. They play something to sticks to the ears without any regard to musical substance, and another thing:stop being a dick to other people.

    They wrote those songs and made a lot of money off them so they either stand behind them and consider them representative of their artistic vision or they don't. There actually are a couple of hit songs featuring Toto that I like, but they are ones with Michael Jackson singing. But look, I've been buying music for about 28 years now and have over 2,300 albums. I have music by artists with zero hits, one hit and multiple hits, but I have still NEVER bought an album by an artist whose hits I thought royally sucked, especially not with the white hot, burning hatred I have for Toto's hits. Who hears a song on the radio and thinks "Gee, this song blows. I really need to check out more by these guys."?

    I do think this is really funny though:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lnt0h7P-Uk
    "It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters

  2. #77
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    (Frumious said): You can't judge them by their hits." Sorry, but if I don't like the hits, the.
    I'm not buying the record and that is all there is to it.(/quote)

    That's me pretty much as well. But sometimes you just take a chance on something and you end up liking it.

  3. #78
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    (Frumious said): You can't judge them by their hits." Sorry, but if I don't like the hits, the.
    I'm not buying the record and that is all there is to it.(/quote)

    That's me pretty much as well. But sometimes you just take a chance on something and you end up liking it.
    Sometimes you can take heed of others' advice and dig a little deeper.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Sometimes you can take heed of others' advice and dig a little deeper.
    Yeah, Frumious. No one is asking you to go out of your way to listen to their music. Just stumble onto one of their videos on VH1 Classic like I did.

  5. #80
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Sometimes you can take heed of others' advice and dig a little deeper.
    Right. It's called taking a chance. And the music still sucks sometimes. In general I agree with Frum. If the radio hits don't tickle my fancy I don't bother.

  6. #81
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    (Frumious said): You can't judge them by their hits." Sorry, but if I don't like the hits, the.
    I'm not buying the record and that is all there is to it.(/quote)

    That's me pretty much as well. But sometimes you just take a chance on something and you end up liking it.
    That's what I'm doing when I buy an artist I've never heard before based on a review, a recommendation or some clips. If someone is all ready defined in my mind then it takes a lot to change that perception and, in my experience, the rewards aren't often worthwhile enough to bother. I've only ever heard the Alanis Morissette music that comes on the radio, for example, and I don't care for it. I'm not inclined to dig into her catalog to figure out if I might be wrong. There's a lot of music out there. You miss the bus with one artist then you just catch it with the next one who comes along.

  7. #82
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    That's fair enough, Frumious. I'm sure we all have similar experiences - we hear stuff from an artist on the radio (or wherever), don't like it, and have no reason to be more interested.

    I'm just saying that, personally, if I write an artist off, but folks whom I trust talk up their not-so-popular stuff, I usually take a few minutes on YouTube to make sure I haven't missed a hidden diamond.

    But, whatever.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  8. #83
    i don't hate the band (they do have some good tunes) but i do have to agree with the points Frumious made. because of Porcaros work with Steely Dan, i had expectations of this band but they never lived up to them. hate to say it but to me they were nothing more than a glorified pop band.
    "She said you are the air I breathe
    The life I love, the dream I weave."


    Unevensong - Camel

  9. #84
    The point to me is if someone specifically TELLS you, oh,there's more to Chicago than Hard Habit To Break, check out Chicago VII and some older stuff, you'll love it, who wouldn't do that and see?

  10. #85
    if anybody has it, i actually like the Sheffield Labs album 'James Newton Howard and Friends' which features 3 (at the time) members of Toto - Steve and Jeff Porcaro and David Paich.
    "She said you are the air I breathe
    The life I love, the dream I weave."


    Unevensong - Camel

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by UnephenStephen View Post
    if anybody has it, i actually like the Sheffield Labs album 'James Newton Howard and Friends' which features 3 (at the time) members of Toto - Steve and Jeff Porcaro and David Paich.
    JNH’s previous album, the one on Kama Sutra with the “perspective view of a keyboard” cover, is even better. It’s pretty much just him with a bunch of keyboards (grand piano, Hammond, ARP synths and “string organ,” anyone know what that might be?), though his wife Brie turns up on drums on two tracks. There’s even a Canterbury feel at times (fuzzed-out organ and all).

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  12. #87
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    The point to me is if someone specifically TELLS you, oh,there's more to Chicago than Hard Habit To Break, check out Chicago VII and some older stuff, you'll love it, who wouldn't do that and see?
    It depends on what the "more" is and what surrounds it. I might be many things, but patient isn't really one of them. I also know from past experience that there are some folks out there who will quite happily wade through all sorts of what I might perceive as godawful dreck (terrible vocals, hackneyed and uninspired songcraft, neutered or smothering sounding production etc.) to get to a few quasi-decent minutes of prog or fusion sounding jams so I take such recommendations with a grain of salt. My loyalty to prog as a genre simply isn't great enough to endure that. I'm much more of a rock/pop guy who only dabbles in prog so I am primarily interested in prog artists who I also believe are excellent to exceptional rock/pop songwriters.
    "It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters

  13. #88
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scott Bails
    Sometimes you can take heed of others' advice and dig a little deeper.
    I wanted to go back to this for a second. This could be an interesting topic to discuss but this a thread about a specific band so if someone wants to start a separate thread that's cool. BTW, I think we also need to remember that public threads are fair game. You have to expect some negative opinions in threads once in a while. If it's public, it's fair game. It doesn't have to turn into a pissing contest.

    I don't think Toto sucks, but then again I'm only familiar with their radio hits. But I'm just using Toto as an example here. In most cases when I hear about a group that's recommended highly but I've only heard 3 or 4 of their big hits, and I don't like those hits I don't go buying their albums. In all the years of posting on music forums I've tried some albums that came highly recommended. They're all hit or miss. I really don't know if I'm going to like something until I actually hear it. I think there's some psychology involved in there as well. I tend to dislike something even more if it's something that EVRYONE loves and recommends, and I end up not liking it. Sometimes the recommendation is a homerun. For example, the Keys To Ascention II album (studio tracks) was recommended by a few of the people on a Yes email list I was a member of (this was years before I joined PE). Most people panned it of course, but it was at a time when I was thirsty for Yes albums. I had all the important, classic albums but I wanted more. KTA2 seemed to stand out. There was no Youtube around then either. I took a chance on it. The Yes album that doesn't get much love from most, got a hell of a lot of love from me. Staying on YES for a moment. 90120 is universally loved (or it seems that way). I bought that one after resisting for years. I never really cared for "Owner" but I felt I was missing out on something because everyone seems to, at least LIKE it a lot. I took a chance. I hated it. Got rid of it so fast my head was spinning. I have a lot of other example just like those.

    Point is, it's all hit or miss. Sometimes you just get lucky. If "If You Leave Me Now" and any other number of sappy Chicago, radio hits were the first Chicago songs I ever heard I would never have bothered with them. Bank on it. But Chicago Transit Authority was the first Chicago album I ever heard, so they became a HUGE favorite of mine. Black Dog was the first Led Zeppelin song I ever heard on the radio. I took a chance on IV. Loooooooved it. From there I bought everything that was available. I could go on forever ....

  14. #89
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    If you're not using some common sense when following these kinds of tips (taking advice from people whose taste you trust, not investigating bands you're already certain you hate, etc.) then of course you're wasting your time. IMO Frumious B's comments are useless to the original purpose of this thread, though I admit this thread has become pretty entertaining.

    I think we should set Frumious B up "Clockwork Orange" style with the complete Toto "canon" and see what he thinks after a few days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnephenStephen View Post
    i don't hate the band (they do have some good tunes) but i do have to agree with the points Frumious made. because of Porcaros work with Steely Dan, i had expectations of this band but they never lived up to them. hate to say it but to me they were nothing more than a glorified pop band.
    Sometimes, Toto can outrock the Dan.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I wanted to go back to this for a second. This could be an interesting topic to discuss but this a thread about a specific band so if someone wants to start a separate thread that's cool. BTW, I think we also need to remember that public threads are fair game. You have to expect some negative opinions in threads once in a while. If it's public, it's fair game. It doesn't have to turn into a pissing contest.

    I don't think Toto sucks, but then again I'm only familiar with their radio hits. But I'm just using Toto as an example here. In most cases when I hear about a group that's recommended highly but I've only heard 3 or 4 of their big hits, and I don't like those hits I don't go buying their albums. In all the years of posting on music forums I've tried some albums that came highly recommended. They're all hit or miss. I really don't know if I'm going to like something until I actually hear it. I think there's some psychology involved in there as well. I tend to dislike something even more if it's something that EVRYONE loves and recommends, and I end up not liking it. Sometimes the recommendation is a homerun. For example, the Keys To Ascention II album (studio tracks) was recommended by a few of the people on a Yes email list I was a member of (this was years before I joined PE). Most people panned it of course, but it was at a time when I was thirsty for Yes albums. I had all the important, classic albums but I wanted more. KTA2 seemed to stand out. There was no Youtube around then either. I took a chance on it. The Yes album that doesn't get much love from most, got a hell of a lot of love from me. Staying on YES for a moment. 90120 is universally loved (or it seems that way). I bought that one after resisting for years. I never really cared for "Owner" but I felt I was missing out on something because everyone seems to, at least LIKE it a lot. I took a chance. I hated it. Got rid of it so fast my head was spinning. I have a lot of other example just like those.

    Point is, it's all hit or miss. Sometimes you just get lucky. If "If You Leave Me Now" and any other number of sappy Chicago, radio hits were the first Chicago songs I ever heard I would never have bothered with them. Bank on it. But Chicago Transit Authority was the first Chicago album I ever heard, so they became a HUGE favorite of mine. Black Dog was the first Led Zeppelin song I ever heard on the radio. I took a chance on IV. Loooooooved it. From there I bought everything that was available. I could go on forever ....
    Well, I grew up in the '80s. So, all I knew were those '80s Chicago ballads. So, I was turned of by Chicago. Then, I read reviews online and in books about the first five Chicago albums. So, I later bought CTA, II, and V. Now, I like Chicago. So, taking suggestions is a good thing.

  17. #92
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Sometimes, Toto can outrock the Dan.
    Can I make this my new sig? No offense, it's just funny. I'm sure it's true.

  18. #93
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    I'm not shocked that anyone would find Toto to be too slick. I'm not put off by the slickness, if I like what I'm hearing. I like some Foreigner, some Journey, Bad Company, Chicago, Alan Parson Project et el. I will say that its usually when any band slips into style over substance that I lose interest. Toto is one of those bands who could play the hell out of the most banal stuff, but it was still banal. I feel that way about a lot of acts (especially prog) that can play the hell out of a tune, but it still bores me. I'll take slick production and instrumental acumen if it engages me. I don't care how raw, soulful or 'real' an act is either, if I don't like it, I don't like. Niether aesthetics nor agendas matter to me, just ideas.
    Digital playback brought high fidelity to the masses and audiophiles will never forgive it for that

  19. #94
    I always thought they were a great band, but never really liked them very much until someone on PE recommended Falling In Between. I rolled the dice and bought it, and it's got a couple of my favorite songs by ANYONE on it. The title track, Simple Life, Bottom of Your Soul and No End In Sight just kill me every time.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Can I make this my new sig? No offense, it's just funny. I'm sure it's true.
    Sure thing.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    Not all musos are RPSers, but all RPSers are musos. Being an RPSer generally requires some combination of muso plus fuzak, yacht rock or eighties music.
    lol this is funny. these guys were studio players before (not RSPers or whatever lol)they formed Toto and they were good at what they did . they had some success but its because of the songs not the players abilities.

  22. #97
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    it is mindblowing that no-one has posted these jewels yet. the entire tokyo/budokan set (1982) is probably a must-see (i have yet to see it in its entirety). as for me, i could watch steve porcaro’s on-stage antics all night, hehe.


  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by iguana View Post
    it is mindblowing that no-one has posted these jewels yet. the entire tokyo/budokan set (1982) is probably a must-see (i have yet to see it in its entirety). as for me, i could watch steve porcaro’s on-stage antics all night, hehe.
    sorry man, had to turn that off. i thought you were gonna post something like this..

    "She said you are the air I breathe
    The life I love, the dream I weave."


    Unevensong - Camel

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnephenStephen View Post
    sorry man, had to turn that off. i thought you were gonna post something like this..

    I love Africa, but I'll Supply The Love is a better song(especially the ending).

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnephenStephen View Post
    sorry man, had to turn that off. i thought you were gonna post something like this..

    no competition whatsoever ;-)>


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