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Thread: New "Let It Be" album releases

  1. #51
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    You obviously didn't grow up in the '60s
    Thankfully, you are correct. There are those whom feel The Beatles are important in music history, but also feel The Beatles aren't the be-all-end-all as many other music fans do. I am looking forward to see what Peter Jackson does with this upcoming film, though.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Thankfully, you are correct. There are those whom feel The Beatles are important in music history, but also feel The Beatles aren't the be-all-end-all as many other music fans do.
    The ironic part being that most of their favorite bands were likely influenced by the Fab Four in some way.
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  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    They were not at each other's throats. That's the myth that has persisted all these years.
    To approach it from another angle, they probably argued as much during the White Album and Abbey Road, but there wasn't a film or tape recorder around to document it for the fans.

  4. #54
    ^^ of course a lot of it came from that scene in the movie where Paul is telling George what he wants him to play and George says, "I'll play whatever you want, or I won't play at all if you want," and it was all blown out of proportion. It wasn't even a spat.
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  5. #55
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    The ironic part being that most of their favorite bands were likely influenced by the Fab Four in some way.
    Yes, that is true. The great part is that those influences are only influences and not direct copies.

  6. #56
    Does anyone know if Robber Soul , Revolver or Magical Mystery Tour will receive such deluxe editions ?

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Does anyone know if Robber Soul , Revolver or Magical Mystery Tour will receive such deluxe editions ?
    I have heard nothing about them and am still mystified why they weren't done already. I"d a AHDN to the list, too.
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  8. #58
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    Further deluxe editions with the remainder of the catalogue must be next on the Beatles agenda or, that's it, I'm declaring war on Apple!

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Does anyone know if Rubber Soul, Revolver or Magical Mystery Tour will receive such deluxe editions ?
    I personally would expect a whole new cycle to begin in 2023 [i.e., "60th anniversary" box sets] with remixes of the albums up to "Revolver". Yes, this would include even the early stuff. Giles Martin and the people at Apple have been experimenting with state-of-the-art softwares that quite convincingly separate instruments even in mono recordings. The latest advances are, apparently, impressive. One may object that this is going a bit too far, but that seems to be happening, and would make it possible to come up with some sort of remixing or even 'ambient' quasi-5.1 versions of even the early recordings. (This is according to people who were played work-in-progress versions of tracks were they were able to 'extract' the guitar part from a mono recording - iirc.)

    There is the separate issue of things like "Tomorrow Never Knows", which I would guess single-handedly accounts for the lack of a "Revolver" remix so far, since the various tape loops were mixed in live during the process, and even if the tape loops used are all available, it would be quite a challenge, if not totally impossible, to create a 5.1 equivalent. They managed it with "I Am The Walrus" eventually with the "King Lear" broadcast that was mixed in 'live' during the mixing process, but it was quite straightforward in comparison once they had located a tape of said radio broadcast.

    I have the "White Album" box but don't have 5.1 - can anyone describe what they did with "Revolution 9" ? Did they achieve some semblance of a 'surround' version of that ?
    Last edited by calyx; 08-31-2021 at 03:44 AM.
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  10. #60
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    2023? I'm not getting any younger here.....

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    There is the separate issue of things like "Tomorrow Never Knows", which I would guess single-handedly accounts for the lack of a "Revolver" remix so far, since the various tape loops were mixed in live during the process, and even if the tape loops used are all available, it would be quite a challenge, if not totally impossible, to create a 5.1 equivalent. They managed it with "I Am The Walrus" eventually with the "King Lear" broadcast that was mixed in 'live' during the mixing process, but it was quite straightforward in comparison once they had located a tape of said radio broadcast.
    There are plenty of separations already making the rounds. I have a four-disc set of recording sessions that includes the clean tape loop. I don't think TNN has any bearing on why there's no box set.

    The "King Lear" tape may have still been in the EMI archives, which is where they originally got it from.
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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    There are plenty of separations already making the rounds. I have a four-disc set of recording sessions that includes the clean tape loop. I don't think TNN has any bearing on why there's no box set.
    You mean the "seagull" loop ? But there's at least 4 or 5 loops being faded in and out throught the song, including bits of McCartney guitar solos from "Taxman". It is theoretically possible to re-create what is in the final mix in stereo and surround, but you need all the loops that were used in the process.

    The "King Lear" tape may have still been in the EMI archives, which is where they originally got it from.
    My impression is that it took a while to locate the actual recording, since the "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" in 1999 still had used a mono mix of the song's ending. Only in 2006 was a fully stereo mix made/released for "Love".
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
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  13. #63
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    Based on this recent Giles Martin interview, there are no immediate plans for deluxe releases of Rubber Soul/Revolver, because of multi-track issues.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...artin-1202832/

    This is a bigger issue for 5.1 though, as far as I can see. Rubber Soul in particular isn't an album with a lot going on mix-wise, really. Beyond a few tracks, Rubber Soul has also never really had a proper stereo mix in the first place, it's one of those (more or less) 'band in one speaker, vocals in the other' jobs. I'd rather a good, true stereo mix of that album over a 5.1.

    Though someone on here (see a recent George Harrison thread) apparently thinks that 5.1 is how all music should be and stereo is old hat, so what do I know!
    Last edited by JJ88; 08-31-2021 at 10:48 AM.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post

    I have the "White Album" box but don't have 5.1 - can anyone describe what they did with "Revolution 9" ? Did they achieve some semblance of a 'surround' version of that ?
    "Revolution 9" sounds fantastic in 5.1. But I don't know how they did it technically. King Crimson had a similar challenge when they remixed "The Devils Triangle", for which they only had the stereo master. That one sounds good too. So it is possible to make surround mixes from a stereo master and make it sound convincing.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Based on this recent Giles Martin interview, there are no immediate plans for deluxe releases of Rubber Soul/Revolver, because of multi-track issues.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...artin-1202832/
    Thanks. This actually covers what I was referring to in my post above :

    Q: Abbey Road Studios has software that allows you to essentially reverse-engineer an old track of audio with multiple instruments on it and separate it into individual tracks. You used that on Ron Howard’s Eight Days a Week documentary and The Beatles: Live At The Hollywood Bowl companion album, right?


    Giles Martin: Yeah, on Hollywood Bowl I took the crowd [noise] off and and then I sort of put the crowd back on again. With the source separation software, I need to make absolutely sure that it does no harm to the audio whatsoever. With things like Hollywood Bowl, to be honest, the audio is pretty cruddy anyway. So it was actually making the audio sound better, because I was reducing the screaming. I think if you compare it to the Hollywood Bowl release my dad had to work through in the ’70s, it’s far better.

    The software is getting a lot better. I’m constantly looking at how we would approach it if I ever get to [remix] Revolver or Rubber Soul, early albums, which a lot of people want me to do. That’s a good example of, “How do we do that?” How do I make sure that John or Paul’s vocal isn’t just in the right-hand speaker, but also make sure that his guitar doesn’t follow him if I put it in the center? On “Taxman,” the guitar, the bass, and drums are all on one track! That’s why the record is basically on the left-hand side, and then there’s a shaker on the right-hand side of the center.

    Q: So you want to wait for the source-separation software to continue to improve.


    Giles Martin: That’s right. Despite the constant requests I get on Twitter or whatever to do these albums, I want to make sure that we can do a good job, and do a beneficial job. You’ve got to make sure that you’re doing things at the right time for the technology.
    This doesn't essentially contradict my prognosis that boxes for the earlier albums may happen in the future - not necessarily in the very short term, but possibly in time for 60th anniversary reissues. Certainly by 2025/26 the software may well have improved enough to make the kind of remixes Giles envisions for "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver" possible. Well, I hope so, because I'd love to hear those albums re-invented with a more immersive approach. I really mean stereo because I still don't have 5.1 at this point.
    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
    Canterbury & prog interviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdf...IUPxUMA/videos

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    You mean the "seagull" loop ? But there's at least 4 or 5 loops being faded in and out throught the song, including bits of McCartney guitar solos from "Taxman". It is theoretically possible to re-create what is in the final mix in stereo and surround, but you need all the loops that were used in the process.
    It's actually one continuous loop of all those pieces spliced together. The fades are in that loop. Seems to me it would be easy enough to cut apart. They could even cross-fade them if they wanted.
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  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    It's actually one continuous loop of all those pieces spliced together. The fades are in that loop. Seems to me it would be easy enough to cut apart. They could even cross-fade them if they wanted.
    OK, I've heard it now. But is this what was used ? Ian MacDonald's description is clearly of different loops playing on different tape machines :

    Calyx (Canterbury Scene) - http://www.calyx-canterbury.fr
    Legends In Their Own Lunchtime (blog) - https://canterburyscene.wordpress.com/
    My latest books : "Yes" (2017) - https://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/yes/ + "L'Ecole de Canterbury" (2016) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/lecoledecanterbury/ + "King Crimson" (2012/updated 2018) - http://lemotetlereste.com/musiques/kingcrimson/
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    OK, I've heard it now. But is this what was used ? Ian MacDonald's description is clearly of different loops playing on different tape machines :

    WOW! that's amazing!
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  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    OK, I've heard it now. But is this what was used ? Ian MacDonald's description is clearly of different loops playing on different tape machines :

    I'll have to revisit my recordings. They may each be on them.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Thankfully, you are correct. There are those whom feel The Beatles are important in music history, but also feel The Beatles aren't the be-all-end-all as many other music fans do. I am looking forward to see what Peter Jackson does with this upcoming film, though.
    Thankfully? For shame!

    Seriously though, I actually hated the Beatles, especially the early stuff. Why? Because my sister was one of those screaming Beatlemaniacs.

    However, one I started playing guitar and joining bands, I started to appreciate what the Beatles were up to. For me, it started with Sgt Peppers and moved forward, though I then went back to Rrvolver and Rubber Soul.

    But I was absolutely not a Beatles freak. That didn't happen, in fact, until later, probably the '80s, when (again, as a player) I started to dig into what the band was doing, beginning with Rubber Soul. I realised that they were not your typical pop writers, with the Lennon/McCartney team having more in common with the Brill Building than their pop contemporaries. And it was only in the past 15 years or so that I really dug into the Beach Boys (I'd loved "Good Vibrations" back in the day, but that was it)many realised just what a genius Brian Wilson was, and what that group was doing with vocal harmonies.

    For me, back in the mid-to-late '60s, I was more into Cream, Hendrix, the Who, etc. Then in the Court of the Crimson King was released I i '69l followed by the Yes Album, Genesis' Nursery Creme, etc and I was hooked on that. Thanks to my guitar teacher,who I began studying with at 10, I was already deep,into jazz, but hey, I was a kid and was looking for rock-infused stuff too, which quickly led to Mahavishny, RTF, etc.

    To try to put it in context: i am a HUGE Beatles fan now, after diving increasingly into their music over the course of many years. Do I think they were/are the be-all/end-all? Of course not. Anyone who listens to a lot of music knows that no single artist, no single group could ever be. But the Beatles absolutely were very important, especially starting with Rubber Soul, to the evolution of pop music, and it's hard to deny the impact they've had across that history.

    So I"m always happy to hear new mixes of their worlk, especially if they're done with the kind of respect that Giles Martin clearly demonstrates, as does George Harrison's son. The new Lennon remixes and, starting with All Things Must Pass, Harrison as well, are revelations. McCartney, of course, has had an inconsistent career but he certainly has made some very fine records in recent years (Flaming Pie and Egypt Station come to mind).

    I'm glad I grew up in the '60s, though. I got to see The Who play Tommy in 1969 (my first rock concert, having missed Hendrix by a few months 'cause my parents thought I was too young ); I saw Genesis with Gabriel multiple times (including The Lamb), Crimson '72-'74 as well, Gentle Giant, ELP, Yes and others. But I also saw Andres Segovia and Julian Bream; Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Benny Goodman, Oscar Peterson and Joe Pass; Lenny Breau, Larry Coryell, the original Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever (di Meola lineup and expanded Music Magic group), Weather Report (Jaco era); Bobby Hurcherson, McCoy Tyner; Oregon, along with Ralph Towner solo, with Abercrombie and more, and many ECM artists including Gary Burton, Pat Metheny, Eberhard Weber, Jan Garbarek with Weber & Frisell, and manŷ others.I also saw Led Zepoelin during its first North American tour, Black Sabbath just before they broke big, Yes on the cusp of success at the bottom of a triple bill in support of The Yes Album. Sly & The Family Stone, Al Green, Aretha Franklin's Earth, Wind & Fire in their prime....the lists and the genres go on.

    So, being born when I did allowed me to experience what I think was one of the most important decades in music of the 20th century, 1965-1975 (give or take a couple years on each side), it wasn't just a time when anything seemed possible, but audiences, radio and record labels actually got behind supporting these possibilities, allowing some of the artists a degree of critical and commercial success that they'd never be able to achieve, were they to emerge years later. If Miles Davis were to emerge today? He"d be as niche an artist as most other jazz musicians are, sad to say. Between DIY recording, YouTube, FaceBook and other social media platforms (and I'm not saying they're bad, but the times are very different to be a musician), there's so much music that it's impossible to keep up, even if you listen to as much music for as many hours a day as I do. And the cream doesn't always rise to the top either; a viral video for reasons other than music is as likely to create a "star" as an artist who slaves to record an exceptional, innovative album.

    Times are different, and even the Beatles would likely be "just another band" today. But that's unfortunate, as they, along with so:many other great musicians, were absolutely responsible for music going where it has. Even if they aren't the be-all/end-all...l

    Cheers!
    John

    PS: I'm also very much looking forward to seeing what Peter Jackson has done with his film, just as I'm looking forward to having Martin's Let It Be remix. Compared to the albums that came before, it may have seemed like a simplistic return to pre-Rubber Soul Beatles, but from the perspective of a group of musicians who were a good few years older...wiser...and more independent.
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  21. #71
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ Very impressive concert resume, John, and I'm not even a Jazz fan. It truly was a Golden Age. I got in on the back end. My parents wouldn't let me attend until late 1978, but I still managed to see a lot of great bands. Sadly, not all at their peak.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Because my sister was one of those screaming Beatlemaniacs.
    My older sister was also a screaming Beatlemaniac, the only problem being that we lived in a small town in a small colonial country thousands of miles away from where Beatlemania was happening in person. It didn't stop her and her friends, though. The movie A Hard Day's Night came to town and so they all went to that and screamed the whole way through. My friend and I also went to the movie but there was only one ticket left, so the staff let us share a seat. Different times.

    PS Your post was a great summary of the sixties and the music of the time. I also totally agree with your assessment of 1965-1975 as being such a crucial time for music.
    We walked arm in arm with madness, and every little breeze whispered of the secret love we had for our disease

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    ^ Very impressive concert resume, John, and I'm not even a Jazz fan. It truly was a Golden Age. I got in on the back end. My parents wouldn't let me attend until late 1978, but I still managed to see a lot of great bands. Sadly, not all at their peak.
    And that's far from all I saw. From 1969-1980 (and before that, jazz shows my dad took me to), between Ottawa and Montreal there were so many opportunities. Quebec and eastern Ontario is where progressive rock really broken through in North America, so pretty much anyone who was anyone played here and, if not here, Montreal. Just two hours away, there was a record store that had bus packages where, if you paid around $20-25, you got a ticket to a show and they bussed you to and from the show. So you got out of the show, hopped on the bus amd you were usually home by around 2am. Saw a lot of shows that way, including Genesis' The Lamb tour, which for some reason didn't make or to ottawa, as they returned here for Trick, Winc & Duke tours.

    But I was also going to Montreal to see guys like Oregon, who never played Ottawa but played Montreal a LOT between 1974 and 1984...saw them maybe 8 times during that period.

    So being 65 definitely has its advantages ... along with the obvious disadvantages!
    Cheers!
    J
    John Kelman
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    Freelance writer/photographer

  24. #74
    "Ringo just mailed it in on this one". I don't think Ringo is capable of mailing something in. Ringo plays every song as Ringo, period. Perhaps for someone that is not tuned in on his style it may seem "different? maybe, or laid back?. But it's just Ringo doing what he does on every song I ever heard him play. making it his own in his own inimitable style. Nobody else could or can even now do that.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Thankfully? For shame!

    Seriously though, I actually hated the Beatles, especially the early stuff. Why? Because my sister was one of those screaming Beatlemaniacs.

    However, one I started playing guitar and joining bands, I started to appreciate what the Beatles were up to. For me, it started with Sgt Peppers and moved forward, though I then went back to Rrvolver and Rubber Soul.

    But I was absolutely not a Beatles freak. That didn't happen, in fact, until later, probably the '80s, when (again, as a player) I started to dig into what the band was doing, beginning with Rubber Soul. I realised that they were not your typical pop writers, with the Lennon/McCartney team having more in common with the Brill Building than their pop contemporaries. And it was only in the past 15 years or so that I really dug into the Beach Boys (I'd loved "Good Vibrations" back in the day, but that was it)many realised just what a genius Brian Wilson was, and what that group was doing with vocal harmonies.

    For me, back in the mid-to-late '60s, I was more into Cream, Hendrix, the Who, etc. Then in the Court of the Crimson King was released I i '69l followed by the Yes Album, Genesis' Nursery Creme, etc and I was hooked on that. Thanks to my guitar teacher,who I began studying with at 10, I was already deep,into jazz, but hey, I was a kid and was looking for rock-infused stuff too, which quickly led to Mahavishny, RTF, etc.

    To try to put it in context: i am a HUGE Beatles fan now, after diving increasingly into their music over the course of many years. Do I think they were/are the be-all/end-all? Of course not. Anyone who listens to a lot of music knows that no single artist, no single group could ever be. But the Beatles absolutely were very important, especially starting with Rubber Soul, to the evolution of pop music, and it's hard to deny the impact they've had across that history.

    So I"m always happy to hear new mixes of their worlk, especially if they're done with the kind of respect that Giles Martin clearly demonstrates, as does George Harrison's son. The new Lennon remixes and, starting with All Things Must Pass, Harrison as well, are revelations. McCartney, of course, has had an inconsistent career but he certainly has made some very fine records in recent years (Flaming Pie and Egypt Station come to mind).

    I'm glad I grew up in the '60s, though. I got to see The Who play Tommy in 1969 (my first rock concert, having missed Hendrix by a few months 'cause my parents thought I was too young ); I saw Genesis with Gabriel multiple times (including The Lamb), Crimson '72-'74 as well, Gentle Giant, ELP, Yes and others. But I also saw Andres Segovia and Julian Bream; Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Benny Goodman, Oscar Peterson and Joe Pass; Lenny Breau, Larry Coryell, the original Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever (di Meola lineup and expanded Music Magic group), Weather Report (Jaco era); Bobby Hurcherson, McCoy Tyner; Oregon, along with Ralph Towner solo, with Abercrombie and more, and many ECM artists including Gary Burton, Pat Metheny, Eberhard Weber, Jan Garbarek with Weber & Frisell, and manŷ others.I also saw Led Zepoelin during its first North American tour, Black Sabbath just before they broke big, Yes on the cusp of success at the bottom of a triple bill in support of The Yes Album. Sly & The Family Stone, Al Green, Aretha Franklin's Earth, Wind & Fire in their prime....the lists and the genres go on.

    So, being born when I did allowed me to experience what I think was one of the most important decades in music of the 20th century, 1965-1975 (give or take a couple years on each side), it wasn't just a time when anything seemed possible, but audiences, radio and record labels actually got behind supporting these possibilities, allowing some of the artists a degree of critical and commercial success that they'd never be able to achieve, were they to emerge years later. If Miles Davis were to emerge today? He"d be as niche an artist as most other jazz musicians are, sad to say. Between DIY recording, YouTube, FaceBook and other social media platforms (and I'm not saying they're bad, but the times are very different to be a musician), there's so much music that it's impossible to keep up, even if you listen to as much music for as many hours a day as I do. And the cream doesn't always rise to the top either; a viral video for reasons other than music is as likely to create a "star" as an artist who slaves to record an exceptional, innovative album.

    Times are different, and even the Beatles would likely be "just another band" today. But that's unfortunate, as they, along with so:many other great musicians, were absolutely responsible for music going where it has. Even if they aren't the be-all/end-all...l

    Cheers!
    John

    PS: I'm also very much looking forward to seeing what Peter Jackson has done with his film, just as I'm looking forward to having Martin's Let It Be remix. Compared to the albums that came before, it may have seemed like a simplistic return to pre-Rubber Soul Beatles, but from the perspective of a group of musicians who were a good few years older...wiser...and more independent.
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