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Thread: Was Rush influenced by Journey?

  1. #1
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    Was Rush influenced by Journey?

    Listen to 1:04, it sounds like Xanadu. Some people in the comments say they hear Tom Sawyer also.

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    Maybe...

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    Decent-sounding near-prog tune, but it doesn't really go anywhere. I can hear the similarity you mention. But it's also relatively simple to play, it's something that sounds good on an electric guitar with the right amp and effects setting, and so it's not unlikely that both Schon and Lifeson would have thought of it independently.

  4. #4
    It does kind of sound like the coda of Tom Sawyer.

    The chord movement sort of sounds similar to Xanadu, particularly with the open string notes that same while the fretted chord changes.

    But the thing about that is, I believe a Canadian band called Spirit Of Christmas was doing that sort of stuff before either of them. I remember Ken Golden, I think, mentioning that when he was prepping the reissue of SOC's album Lies To Live By, whichever band member he was in contact made comment that the Rush guys were aware of them and had seen them play, and let's say some of their guitar moves rubbed off on Alex. Listening to Lies To Live By, there's a few things that sound like the thing of thing Alex would later do, like combining moving chords with the open string notes, as on The Necromancer Part III or Xanadu. It's been quite some time since I've really listened to the album, so I can't remember if there's anything where I'd go "Oh, that sounds like..." and insert whichever song, but it's similar approaches to guitar based harmony.

    But it's one of those things that kind of obvious that any guitarist who's trying to "think outside the box" might try, like with fingerboard tapping and such. And I'm sure there's someone who was doing it before the Spirit Of Christmas. There's probably some jazz or classical guitarist who was doing that stuff back in the 40's or 50's.

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    Member Digital_Man's Avatar
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    I doubt it. I know the history of Rush pretty well and they have never mentioned Journey as influences. That makes sense because Journey were more like contemporaries of Rush. That in and of itself doesn't mean they couldn't be influences but they were different kinds of bands anyway. It's also unlikely because in the early days they weren't very aware of Journey anyway.
    When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I doubt it. I know the history of Rush pretty well and they have never mentioned Journey as influences. That makes sense because Journey were more like contemporaries of Rush. That in and of itself doesn't mean they couldn't be influences but they were different kinds of bands anyway. It's also unlikely because in the early days they weren't very aware of Journey anyway.
    Well, just because you don't admit to an influence doesn't mean it's not there. And there's also the thing of picking up things unconsciously. You have to imagine the Rush guys probalby heard Journey more than a few times, either from sharing bills with them or you hear the music one way or another on the radio or someone says "Hey, check this out".

    But as I said, it's more likely that Alex got that kind of stuff from Spirit Of Christmas.

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    Journey was sort of proggy in the 70s, then became a pop band with hits after Steve Perry joined.

    Steve Perry ruined Journey.

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ Nonsense.
    I like the part where Icarus hijacks the Little Red Hen.

    http://www.discogs.com/user/moecurlythanu/collection

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    Member TheH's Avatar
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    The always overlooked Dream after Dream with Perry is easily the most Synphonic Prog Journey album ever did, and it is with Perry.

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    Yes. They took that part from Journey out of respect. I read that somewhere but donít remember where.

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    Considering A Farewell To Kings was released in '77 i would bet that Xanadu was fully realized before they had the chance to hear and plagiarize anything from Journey of the same year.
    Just a coincidence.
    Steve Perry ruined Journey = fact

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    If anyone "ruined" Journey, it was Jon Cain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by progholio View Post
    Considering A Farewell To Kings was released in '77 i would bet that Xanadu was fully realized before they had the chance to hear and plagiarize anything from Journey of the same year.
    According to Wikipedia, Next came out in February 1977, and A Farewell To Kings was recorded in June of 77 and released in September 77. You don't think three months is enough time to absorb something like that?

    On the other hand, I do believe I read they had actually played Xanadu on tour before taking it into the studio.
    Quote Originally Posted by progholio View Post
    Steve Perry ruined Journey = fact
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge
    If anyone "ruined" Journey, it was Jon Cain.
    Well, actually, it was Perry, but not for the reason most people seem to think. All the late 70's and early 80's Journey albums have cool stuff on them. Yeah, it was different from the first three albums, but the songwriting was really strong, and so was Neal Schon's guitar work.

    What happened was, somewhere along the way, Steve Perry gained unilateral control over the band. He was the guy who sacked Steve Smith and Ross Valory after the initial sessions for what became Raised On Radio, which is where I think things went sideways. Perry took over as producer, and he pushed the band further down that MOR road. Not even legendary session men Randy Jackson and Larrie London could save this mess. Be Good To Yourself was a good song, but the rest of that record...I mean, really?!

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    You all have it wrong. Journey was ruined when Ross Valory started playing a Steinberger.

    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

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    I really love Raised On Radio, one of my faves

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, actually, it was Perry, but not for the reason most people seem to think. All the late 70's and early 80's Journey albums have cool stuff on them. Yeah, it was different from the first three albums, but the songwriting was really strong, and so was Neal Schon's guitar work.

    What happened was, somewhere along the way, Steve Perry gained unilateral control over the band. He was the guy who sacked Steve Smith and Ross Valory after the initial sessions for what became Raised On Radio, which is where I think things went sideways. Perry took over as producer, and he pushed the band further down that MOR road. Not even legendary session men Randy Jackson and Larrie London could save this mess. Be Good To Yourself was a good song, but the rest of that record...I mean, really?!
    Yeah, that all happened, but by RoR, they were about done, son. Infinity, Evolution, Departure, Escape (enter Jon Cain) and Frontiers are the albums the vast majority of their fans care about. That's why they milked them to death in all those tours in the last two decades.

    The songs on the first three (with Rolie) sound quite a bit different from the next two. And if you're gonna mince about MOR, they all wanted to go in that direction. That's why they brought in a dedicated frontman. I doubt anyone complained about the money showing up in their checker. The only line-up change was Rolie, till Valory and Smith got their walking papers.

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    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    As for Rush, I've always heard more of a Sabbath influence in s/t. Alex's soloing in particular had a bit of an Iommi quality at the time.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    As for Rush, I've always heard more of a Sabbath influence in s/t.
    Re: they're most obvious influences, there was a reason that back in the day Rush was called "Lil Zep", "Zeppelin Junior", etc.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    Decent-sounding near-prog tune, but it doesn't really go anywhere. I can hear the similarity you mention. But it's also relatively simple to play, it's something that sounds good on an electric guitar with the right amp and effects setting, and so it's not unlikely that both Schon and Lifeson would have thought of it independently.
    Next is already quite weaker than their first two. There is something to be heard for sure (Xanadu, I don't hear any Sawyer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Man View Post
    I doubt it. I know the history of Rush pretty well and they have never mentioned Journey as influences. That makes sense because Journey were more like contemporaries of Rush. That in and of itself doesn't mean they couldn't be influences but they were different kinds of bands anyway. It's also unlikely because in the early days they weren't very aware of Journey anyway.
    Well both bands evolved in the same waters, waiting until their fourth album to gain international recognition - they were both menaced to lose their contracts after their poor third album (saleswise anyways). So hard to say that they were really aware of each other

    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    Journey was sort of proggy in the 70s, then became a pop band with hits after Steve Perry joined.

    Steve Perry ruined Journey.
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    If anyone "ruined" Journey, it was Jon Cain.
    Journey was artistically dead by the time Cain came on.
    Losing Dunbar and Rollie will do that to you, no matter if you still have Schon (I always found him rather over-rated) and Valory (I wouldn't think of him for the top 200 bassiss list), even if you replaced your drummer with Steve Smith.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, just because you don't admit to an influence doesn't mean it's not there. And there's also the thing of picking up things unconsciously. You have to imagine the Rush guys probalby heard Journey more than a few times, either from sharing bills with them or you hear the music one way or another on the radio or someone says "Hey, check this out".

    But as I said, it's more likely that Alex got that kind of stuff from Spirit Of Christmas.
    That could be true but the bottom line is it's unlikely Rush knew about Journey when they were starting out. Journey didn't get very popular until Steve Perry left for one thing.
    When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.

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    Seems like Kansas nicked a bit from Journey too.


  22. #22
    Suspiciously similar riff, Grobschnitt's 1974 Nickelodeon and the camera eye

    Starting 0:42


  23. #23
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    I doubt it

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    nope.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirthOf5th View Post
    Seems like Kansas nicked a bit from Journey too.

    I heard about this several years ago. I've had those early Journey records for decades and never noticed the nick until Neal mentioned it.

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